Player Features and Ideas Discussion

The orange bar is actually pretty healthy. Hybrids are a bit heavier but they also have short-range blasters which are some of the highest DPS guns in the game, and medium rails were blatantly OP for most of the time that graph was pulling data from. Drones are expected to be a big chunk because so many ships use them.

If you split up the various categories per ship type that uses a weapon system the position of lasers gets even better. For example CBCs only have a single laser ship, but it still does almost half the damage of Hybrids, of which there are three that use them (if you include the Myrm, so maybe 2.5?)

Destroyers are skewed because of high-sec ganks with Blaster Catalysts. No data for the Svipul, but the Confessor by itself was doing almost as much damage as the entire Interceptor class despite not being out for very long. In Frigates lasers are actually beating out Projectiles and Missiles, and running competitively with Hybrids despite there being more Hybrid frigates than Laser ones.

I'm glad someone has finally pointed out this handicap on Laser boats in general. To compensate this annoying drawback bonus CCP should give all lasers a built in tracking bonus and make them the best tracking turret weapon system in the game. Either that or give Amarr T2 Hulls another mid slot so they can fit a tracking comp. Otherwise laser boats will always be underpowered compared to the other weapon systems even with their range bonus as lasers can't hit anything reliably moving faster than 1k m/s.

Edit: Ah i see the point of your post is to combine the activation cost with the damage bonus and I think it's a brilliant idea. Yes I agree you should make a post on that in features and ideas.

These ships should suffer the same sig penalty that destroyers seem to have where they take full damage from small and medium weapons. Destroyers always seemed to have the weakness of paper thin. I dunno why these were treated like anything but superior glass cannons. Maybe make moduels you fit to the ship to pick a mode but the OP part is the switching on the fly ability from speed to defense to offense. come on that is the single most versatile combat ship in the game.

I'd like to see missiles make these t3 destroyer pilots **** bricks.

making a kiting ship fast without all the skills moduels and implants is just a BS way to get skill point poor players a ship to pvp in with their bad skills :/ This is a reflection of the I want it now mind set of today. where before you needed atleast 2 accounts and combined 80mil skill points to fly a respectable kite boat and booster but it was still paper thin. these things have way too much tank hahah its a fckn desy.

And people are using mode switching to insta warp past gate camps like the MWD cloak trick you don't seem to want to stop. UGh LOW sec is way too SAFE !

im an idiot oops

You're forgetting the gun non-specific ships, plus the navy and pirate faction ones, so you have 6 Gallente Hybrid ships, 6 Amarr Laser boats, and then the Merlin. Plus the Daredevil is just sort of generally better and more popular than the Sucubus. Either way the difference between Hybrids and Lasers on Frigates isn't that big, and on Cruisers there's almost no difference despite Medium Rails being OP for a while.

In all of the other categories where Lasers are seriously losing in PvP damage there are either way fewer Laser ships. This includes HACs (2 Gallente with the Ishtar using them as secondary guns, and the Eagle for Caldari), T3 Cruisers (Missile loadouts are more popular on the Legion, and both the Tengu and Proteus run hybrids, also the class hasn't been rebalanced at all and needs it), Battleships they're almost even, as I already said Dessies are skewed by ganking with Catalysts and Arty Thrashers, and that leaves Frigates where Hybrids are *still* beating out Projectiles.

Lasers :
- Punisher
- Tormentor
- Executioner
- Crucifier
- Slicer
- Cruor
- Succubus
- Astero

==>> 8

Hybrids :
- Merlin
- Atron
- Incursus
- Tristan
- Comet
- Daredevil

==>> 6

Wasn't your point saying that there are more Hybrid frigates and despite that (false) fact, lasers are pretty high ?
That's false.

The only reason why lasers are that "high" on frigates is due to the Slicer popularity first of all, then Succubus/Cruor on a lower hand, THEN because there is simply more Lasers frigates then Hybrid.

I don't know where you live, but in my region (LowSec) i do see way more Succubuses and Cruors than Daredevils.
On the other hand, concerning strict T1 Hulls, i do see way more Merlins or Incursuses than Punishers or Tormentors.

___

On the Cruiser case :
7 Laser ships (Navy + Pirate included), 8 with Arbitrator.
3 Hybrid ships (Navy + Pirate included), 5 with Vexor and VNI.

Same thing than frigates :
- Aug NI are way more populare than Exeq NI when it comes to fleets.
- Omen NI are way more populare when it comes to solo.
- Vigilants are more like a support role cruiser like the Ashimuu when it comes to fleet.
- And Phantasm tend to be more and more populare than Vigilants when it comes to solo.
- Stratios, super popular Cloaking Cruisers to gank in NullSec is using Lasers.

So in those 2 cases, Frigates and Cruisers, despite their higher number in Hulls, Lasers are doing lower than Hybrids (Frigates) or even (Cruisers).
It shouldn't be that way if lasers were 'that' good.



Thanks. ♥

Ok so, let's go Quote Battle till a moderator comes.

That's what you said :



First of all, counting exploration firgates is pure non-sense.
As you said "someone doin exploration would use hull-based-weaponry", but we don't deal with PvE damage here, those numbers are PvP damage. We do not PvP in HighSec, and T1 exploration frigates are almost inexistant in LS / NS. Plus, by the time that guy make his way to NS or LS, he had taught that T2 hull are way better than T1 hull to do exploration, and even more, Astero is the top of the top. Even if you count the T1 hull noob pilot exploring WH for the first time, they are mostly without a single gun fitted. They just can't fit weapon if they properly fit those ships for exploration.
But whatever, if you want to.
So that makes 9 for each weapon.
That's not what you said.

Secondly, about the video you linked, if you combined Astero + Cruor + Succubus, that makes almost twice the use of Daredevil the only Hybrid Pirate Frigate.

Thirdly, how can you tell T1 hulls give most of the data in the stats "cause they are cheaper" and call this obvious ? What about Navy firigs and their damage multiplier ??? Non-sense..
With no proper and actual data, you can't make the statement that Firgate damage in original PvP damage by class graph come from strict T1 hulls, you just cannot.

To conclude, despite having more hulls using Lasers than hulls using Hybrids, Laser are doin less than Hybrid.
Or if you prefer : despite having the same amount of hull but with more damage done in Pirate hulls, Lasers do less in overall Frigate PvP damage.

It wouldn't be that way if lasers were doin "pretty well".

In french what you just done here is called "mauvaise foi", being dishonest / insincere.
Or simply mis-reading the graphs, but i won't question your cleverness.




Again, counting eWar Cruiser hulls is complete non sense, cause high slots are used to deal with drones mostly, and the best choice to do so are Projectiles or even SB, and not the hull based weaponry.
Also, battle-Arbitrator are way more commun than battle-Celestis (just like crucifier / maulus), but whatever, if you want to ?

I forgot the Moa, sorry for that.
So it makes, 8 hulls for Lasers, 7 for Hybrids.
Again, Vexors and VNI are half of the time neut-fitted and not Hybrid, just like Arbitrator would be RLM or neut and Celestis... maybe Rail, but that's rarely the case, and even if it was always the case, their damage would've been applied on drones mostly and really minimal compared to the overall hybrid damage... but whatever, if you want to.......

If you're being insincere by counting useless hulls as hybrid boats, i'll be sincere by taking in fact Rails.
As i can see in the video you linked, if you combined Stratios + Ashimuu + Phantasm, it's like almost the quadruple ? of the Vigilant damage ?
Also, those numbers just show what i said : Vigilant and Phantasm are even popularity-wise.
Phantasm TEND to be more popular nowadays solo roam speaking. Though,they will always be less usefull in a fleet cause of the web effectiveness of a Vigilant, or the web range and neuts of an Ashimuu.

Therefore, despite the higher number of honnestly-stated-Laser-boats, the data show that they are even.
Or if you prefer : despite the "hilariously popular Medium Rails" but the 4 time less damage dealt with Pirate Hybrid hulls, Hybrids are doing the same damage as Lasers.


If Lasers were doin that "pretty well", it wouldn't be that way.



Lesson of the day : yes, data are important to look at, but you need to be honest with them.

After Mosaic Svipul = 230 | Fessor = 235.
That's a significant diffrence indeed. :D

Not to mention mass after Mosaic : Svipul 1m500k kg | Fessor 2m kg

Confessor is tiny-slightly faster but also a third heavier than svipul.
Svipul is tiny-slightly slower but a quarter lighter.

Which will result in a faster Svipul than the Confessor after Mosaic, but a slower Svipul compared to the pre-Mosaic Svipul with the same configuration (nanofibers / armor tanked or not).

It really depends on the class you pick to compare Amarr/Matar mass/base speed actually.

I usually never complain about CCP... Even though it does seem as soon as I take a fancy to a ship they nerf it. As with the T3 Destroyers... Give you a Ferrari and a patch later recall it and stuff a Volkswagen engine in it.

I have a great idea... Just issue one ship.... that's all you need. Then make EvE browser based and playable only through FaceBook. /SARC

I've been out of the loop for a while, so maybe I have it all wrong.

Was not the intent of T3 greater versatility? I dislike the idea that a ship is just absolutely better than every alternative and in my first few encounters with the T3D's I was stunned at how effective it is. The presence and power of these ships absolutely impact the meta in a poor way: displacing frigates, destroyers, and cruisers.