Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Booohooo you have to pay ISK for a service that people ask more of because of the risk. CCP doesn't force you to use Black Frog, You choose to. You could mine the minerals in Deklein (i know :effort:) but you don't.

A) Because your miners are not afforded any real protection outside of numbers in local
B) Because your alliance does not actively contribute to funding mining and industry (import its better isk/hr right).
C) Because your members are at constant risk of AWOX
D) Because of the above more people leave NS mining in Deklein and less people venture into it.

In regards to gun mining...if it was dead why did CCP just nerf it by 45% last spring?

You don't know much about production do you, after all you seem to be under the impression there exists a Blue Print that can build anything in the game if you throw enough isk at it. T1 production walks a very finite line between worth it and not worth it, the changes to production costs make it very much not worth it (if they remain as stands).

If this is really a NS change for more self sufficiency, less dependency on JFs from HS, why does the Zydrine and Megacyte change need to exist at all? It doesn't offer anything to their desired change...except prompt people into doing JF runs from NS to HS.

Its just nonsense and will only drive T1 production (in LS and HS) down as a result of increase Meta module costs which is going to happen because HS folks only source of Mega and Zydrine is from gun mining. Which means HS producers will drive up the price through consumption and reprocessing, and thats not even the end of it, once folks realize making T1 mods is a waste of cash (which it nearly is right now anyway), then Faction stuff will start to rise in price...which means more LP grinding...how do you get LP? Missions which seed Meta Mods (yay!), but you still need T1 mods...Game of Alts indeed. If folks in NS don't have a mission running alt, or Incursion alt...you should get one, because having the monopoly on readily available T1 mods, gives you a nice foothold in the Faction Mod market. Which ultimately is contradictory to the whole "get people into NS" thing, since doing missions and making T1 mods from your reprocessed loot into faction mods from your earned LP is going to eclipse anything production wise in NS. To the point you will be quite able to afford importing anything you want from HS through Black Frog.

This isn't rocket science man.

Im happy CCP is tweaking NS ore, but they are being very short sighted with the changes to production requirements. The latter is an unneeded change to accomplish their set goals.

Im not sure why you keep bringing up mining isk/hr when you reply to me. I think its just groovy CCP is attempting to make mining more appealing to folks in NS, as ive said numerous times now. I am talking about module production, and you clearly have no real understanding of how that system works. So i don't know if you are just trolling, or preserving the narrative (hard to tell with Goon forum warriors sometimes). Maybe if you ask Mynnna real nice he will give you a rundown on how T1 production works in relationship vs Meta modules.

Fun fact, most T1 module production is already produced at a net loss...unless you source the material yourself (mining + missions > gun mining, or through some corp organized mining + production venture). The changes to Zyd and Mega only push down the value of T1 mods that much further, simply because their valuation is hard capped by the valuation of Meta mods, which are better modules to use on a ship, and as such in higher demand.

Will it be a wasteland, no, but anyone who understands production won't be producing T1 modules outside personal usage (Faction BPs), in fact, most producers I know left that game last spring when gun mining changes created a glut of meta mods on markets, thus driving down the price cap on T1 mods.

Aha, I figured it out. You're one of those sorts that think "if I mine it, it's free." No wonder your opinions on things are so disconnected from reality.

T1 Production cannot at once be done at a net loss and be profitable if you mine the material yourself (by mining laser or by shooting red crosses.) You will make more money selling minerals than you would building the T1 module. The secret is that minerals are just as fungible as modules. Just sell the minerals you acquire. It is not hard to understand.

So... you're doing production that you KNOW to be unprofitable? :psyduck:

T1 module production SHOULD be profitable though, and the change to Zyd and Mega inputs makes it even worse off than today. Which is bad for the game in the long run. Especially for promoting Industry to new folks (or old folks looking for something new). Production is already limiting for fresh faces, you need to research BPOs, you need a sustainable capital source for mineral procurement, pretty sad when entry level production yields a net loss across the majority of modules. I can't think of any other profession in the game whose first steps result in you losing money.


I could see this BP tweak being viable in the future, but CCP should hold off until they finish with module tiericide. As it stands meta mods are just plain more useful, more in demand and thus more profitable. They need to make T1 mods actually desired for use instead of just a baseline item that rookie pilots fit because they can't afford the higher meta items.

Why would you not pass the price of increased price on to the consumer. There were be a period where there is a back stock of items that were built at a lower cost but that stock will eventually dry up and a new price point will be reached where you are not taking a loss with the increased minerals. I am failing to see how you are missing this.

Because the pricing of T1 modules is hard capped by the cost of Meta Modules not hard to understand really.