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[April] [Updated] Confessor and Svipul Balance Tweaks

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Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#461 - 2015-04-22 03:35:09 UTC
Tia Lee wrote:
To ensure [fun,] ships must have carefully balanced strenghts and weaknesses.


OK, but how do you carefully balance a ship that may be flown by a player with barely enough skillpoints to sit in it -> (anyone in between) -> a player with perfectly maxed skills to fly the fitting? How do you carfully balance a ship that may be flown 1vs1 against the weakest, most vulnerable ship class in the game -> a ship of the same class of exactly equal fitting -> 1 vs 100 against super capitals or anything in between? How do you carefully balance a ship flying to its strengths and in a tactically superior position against a ship that is being "misused" and starting out in a bad position? Can it be as simple as: "Svipuls are beating Wolfs 1v1 in low sec belts and FW complexes, therefore, nerf."?

Tia Lee wrote:
T3 destroyers combinefar too many strenghts of other ships classes with almost no weaknesses.


Assault frigates are fast, with excellent tank, and good damage projection. What are THEIR weaknesses?
Interceptors are really fast, with small signatures and good resistances (i.e. tank), and with their mobility, they can use range dictation to control how much damage you do to them and how much damage they do to you (i.e. damage projection). What are THEIR weaknesses?
Faction frigates combine the various qualities of speed, tank, and damage (and other qualities), but generally speaking, they have two of the three in spades. What are THEIR weaknesses?

What if frigates were the problem?
Cade Windstalker
#462 - 2015-04-22 03:36:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Cade Windstalker
NovemberMike wrote:
The issue is that it should be faster than an assault frigate in prop mode, tankier than an EAF in defense mode and it should do more damage than a T1 destroyer in Sharpshooter mode.


This is exactly what they shouldn't be, and what this balance pass has changed. They have access to all three, so they shouldn't all be better than a focused T2 ship. That's what T3s being generalists instead of specialists means.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#463 - 2015-04-22 04:34:35 UTC
Removed an off topic post.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#464 - 2015-04-22 04:40:15 UTC
Firstly . . .
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
Since you are less experienced [with Minmatar ships], i'll let you in on a secret. Titanium sabot (Or Carbonized lead i think) ammo. Gives me 20% bonus to tracking, and no optimal penalty.


The other one is Depleted Uranium. I knew that off the top of my head (although I did double check to avoid looking like a idiot). It also reduces your DPS significantly compared to Fusion, EMP, and Phased Plasma (and whatever Tech II ammos projectiles use).
I'll let YOU in on a little secret: I've been flying Minmatar ships since before your character was born. (Maybe you could read my first post in the thread, if you have some time.)

Secondly . . .
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
They were killed by BC's or BS, because i could fit the necessary tackle to hold one/neut them/ and then destroy them without sacrificing my entire tank to do that. Which is something frigates and some cruisers cannot afford to do.


So, it sounds like you have found a counter to the 1vs1 Svipul menace. Do you think there might be more counters out there, just waiting to be found? What if there was one that involved frigates or cruisers or . . . Svipuls? Would you consider those to be overpowering and in need of being nerfed to stop them from encroaching on the "role" of the Svipul?

Thirdly . . .
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
My svipul had a 27km optimal + another 15km in fall-off. I could easily shoot out 40-50km and project 190dps. I could outrun crows and other inties w/o issue, normally volleying them. I was able to easily chase down garmurs and gun them down by going 3.5km/s cold, and about 5km/s with heat. This is without links.

On top of that speed, i was able to fit a MASB as tank. Very rarely did i use it, because it was not common to even get hit. Which is more tank than the arty wolf, and about the same as arty jag. Using titanium sabot allowed me to do about 190 dps, the wolf using short range, high damage ammo does about 212 dps. To get the same projection as the svipul means it only does about 142dps. Just for reference, with short range ammo, the svipul did 290dps, and could project it well, out to about 25km.

So yes, the Svipul is better in every way that matters when compared to their AF counterparts, they are OP against an entire class of ships, effectively obsoleting them. 2/10 for spin effort though, needs more spin.


If you're killing (ASSAULT!) frigates at 40km with 190 dps, something is amiss. You're not telling us something, like that you were using a really expensive warp disruptor (if you were pointing them at 40km), or that they were noobs and didn't know to tanks their ship, phone-a-friend, or warp out, or just had ****** skills, or that you had help (i.e. a friend was tackling them). Congratulations on whatever LOLer fit you have discovered that apparently allows you to overpower 1 frigate by going 5km/s (and presumably burning your MWD out in 3 cycles), but I have a feeling it would die to 2 or 3 artillery fitted Thrashers . . . in 1 volley. (I'm not good with such numbers.) Maybe you could post it.

The entirety of your argument still boils down to the fact that, all else being equal, 1 Svipul > 1 Wolf (or Garmur or whatever). Why don't you QQ about how 1 Tengu > 1 Eris while you are at it?
My response: Working As Intended. Although, I'm no authority on the intentions of CCP.
Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#465 - 2015-04-22 05:35:27 UTC
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
stuff


I'm not sure where to start with this. Its like you completely glazed over my post and nerd-raged your keyboard.

Quote:
The other one is Depleted Uranium. I knew that off the top of my head (although I did double check to avoid looking like a idiot). It also reduces your DPS significantly compared to Fusion, EMP, and Phased Plasma (and whatever Tech II ammos projectiles use).
I'll let YOU in on a little secret: I've been flying Minmatar ships since before your character was born. (Maybe you could read my first post in the thread, if you have some time.)


Cool, if you knew the ammo type (and have been so elite with minmatar) then why did you go on a huge tangent about having to switch modes? With titanium sabot or uranium, you get the 20% bonus to tracking, pretty much making the sharpshooter mode close to useless. With 3500m/s speed, my speed is my tank, therefore the tanking mode is not needed. Which means (like i said), the Svipul does more dps than the jag/wolf, is faster than the jag/wolf, and has a better or equivalent tank as the jag/wolf. Not sure how much more obvious i can make that for you? A T3 ship should NOT be better at a specialized ship's role. A DESTROYER should not be FASTER than a frigate. Pretty simple stuff here.

You vastly underestimate what 190dps does to frigates. To put it into perspective, my jaguar does 180dps with 280's with short range/high damage ammo. It has killed plenty of AF, dessies, and other assorted t1 ships. 190 dps to a garmur is death, same with most inties. You also forget that artillery fits rely more on ALPHA than DPS. That 190dps is giving me 1.2k vollies. Tell me, how many vollies before you start bleeding structure between reps?

Quote:
[So, it sounds like you have found a counter to the 1vs1 Svipul menace. Do you think there might be more counters out there, just waiting to be found? What if there was one that involved frigates or cruisers or . . . Svipuls? Would you consider those to be overpowering and in need of being nerfed to stop them from encroaching on the "role" of the Svipul?


What are you talking about? The role of the Svipul is to be flexible, not an "Iwin" button against an entire class of ships. The svipul needs a nerf because its better at everything that AF do. Including speed, tank, dps and projection. Why fly an AF when you can fly a Svipul/T3D and do the AF's role better?

Quote:
If you're killing (ASSAULT!) frigates at 40km with 190 dps, something is amiss. You're not telling us something, like that you were using a really expensive warp disruptor (if you were pointing them at 40km), or that they were noobs and didn't know to tanks their ship, phone-a-friend, or warp out, or just had ****** skills, or that you had help (i.e. a friend was tackling them). Congratulations on whatever LOLer fit you have discovered that apparently allows you to overpower 1 frigate by going 5km/s (and presumably burning your MWD out in 3 cycles), but I have a feeling it would die to 2 or 3 artillery fitted Thrashers . . . in 1 volley. (I'm not good with such numbers.) Maybe you could post it.

The entirety of your argument still boils down to the fact that, all else being equal, 1 Svipul > 1 Wolf (or Garmur or whatever). Why don't you QQ about how 1 Tengu > 1 Eris while you are at it?
My response: Working As Intended. Although, I'm no authority on the intentions of CCP.


No. Just no. I said the Svipul PROJECTS 190dps out to 40km. Didn't say i was pointing and killing people at 40km. What this means is that when that tackle frig starts to run away because he's in armor/structure after 2-3 vollies, i can still pop him between 40-50km. This is what happened with a garmur and a few inties.

Again, you underestimate dps on an ARTILLERY fit ship. Artillery is not about DPS, but alpha. I killed most ships in 3-5 vollies. Inties are not exactly tanky, garmurs aren't that tanky either. Also, 190dps is for when i'm dealing with fast tackle, that needs to die quick at range.

If i have an AF tackled that can't catch me, i can switch to fusion/emp/plasma and then shoot 290dps out to 25km roughly. Well within point range, and easy to overwhelm an AF tank. Hell, even 190dps can do that.

As i go through this last paragraph of yours, its descends into more ignorance that i can't tell if you're trolling, or just mad. 3 MWD cycles till burnt out? T3D has heat reduction bonus. Not to mention, 1-2 pulses of OH MWD is more than enough to catch an unsuspecting garmur/inty, its not like i need to sustain 5km/s speed. Thats why having 40km of projection is great. Even if they try to run, i can still hit them.

Again, in your flash of nerdrage, you completely missed my point. I didn't say a T3D shouldn't be able to kill frigs, or shouldn't be better than frigs. I'm saying that the Svipul/T3D can do everything better than their AF counterparts. Ships that are specialized in their role. For example, the jag is intended for artillery. Why would i ever fly a jag over a svipul? I've already proved the svipul is faster, projects more dps, and is tankier than any arty kite jag could ever be.

Same as the wolf, the wolf has a few niche arty fits. The wolf literally cannot fit a tank when fit with 280's+mwd, its all speed. The svipul does more dps than the wolf, is faster, and can fit a reasonable tank (MASB), while still getting a defensive web.

Tell me again why a destroyer should be FASTER than an AF, and better at that AF's intended role.

Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS

Make the Muninn great again!
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#466 - 2015-04-22 05:50:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Iroquoiss Pliskin
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
With titanium sabot or uranium, you get the 20% bonus to tracking, pretty much making the sharpshooter mode close to useless. With 3500m/s speed, my speed is my tank, therefore the tanking mode is not needed. Which means (like i said), the Svipul does more dps than the jag/wolf, is faster than the jag/wolf, and has a better or equivalent tank as the jag/wolf.


Yes. Smile People would be fine if T3Ds were proficient in only 2 out of those 3 traits, except they exceed and excel in all three at once at the moment. Especially the Svipul, which practically forgoes the SS mode completely, not to mention the double resistance bonus to shield/armour in Def*.

Nothing more needs to be said.

*as a result the Confessor has 7k EHP vs Svipul's 7.4k, with the Confessor being slower and having to rely on SS to project to the same ranges as the matari boat.

What's up with that, CCP?

// [PvP Damage Done by Class (Scylla)] //

[Cruisers Online]
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#467 - 2015-04-22 07:06:24 UTC
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
The role of the Svipul is to be flexible


This is the problem.
The Svipul is a destroyer. Generally speaking, the role of a destroyer is counter-assault. 1 interdictor can literally counter the assault of thousands of players by droping an interdiction sphere probe thingamajig, but generally destroyers do this counter-assault by just being alert, precise and destructive. They lock fast, shoot far, hit hard and just blow you up if you approach something they don't want you to approach, such as themselves.

The Wolf is an ASSAULT frigate. The role of a frigate, generally speaking, is fast assault or just mobility + a special functionality.

Many of the scenarios you are describing involve a lightly-tanked fast-assault ship approaching a counter-assault ship and being destroyed. I don't see a problem with the game balance. I see a problem with those individual players' strategy. Attacking a destructive ship with a lightly-tanked ship ends badly. It's not rocket science. If you don't have the numbers, GTFO the grid or they will interdict and destroy you.

Another grouping of scenarios you are describing involves fast assault ships that aren't assaulting. They're trying to have a stand-off engagement at 40km with a ship specialized at shooting things to death quickly. That's not gonna work either.

I understand you don't like that tactical destroyers are ungodly fast in propulsion mode, but how slow are they supposed to be? (Not a rhetorical question.) So slow that a Tornado warps in at 50km and alphas them off the field before they can respond? So slow that something like a Garmur kites them and pecks them to death? So slow that they cannot even defend themselves from the action they are supposed to defend others from? That doesn't make sense. Unfortunately, in order to react and destroy fast, assaulting ships, they have to be fast themselves.

So, it sounds like these frigates are having trouble with Svipuls conducting fast assaults and destroying them. I sympathize. Being assaulted by really fast ships that do a lot of precision damage sucks, but can you think of some natural counters to that? Hint: Ctrl+Click -> Approach -> Activate Modules is not gonna cut it.

Adapt or die.
Tia Lee
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#468 - 2015-04-22 11:58:12 UTC
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
I understand you don't like that tactical destroyers are ungodly fast in propulsion mode, but how slow are they supposed to be? (Not a rhetorical question.) So slow that a Tornado warps in at 50km and alphas them off the field before they can respond? So slow that something like a Garmur kites them and pecks them to death? So slow that they cannot even defend themselves from the action they are supposed to defend others from? That doesn't make sense. Unfortunately, in order to react and destroy fast, assaulting ships, they have to be fast themselves.

So, it sounds like these frigates are having trouble with Svipuls conducting fast assaults and destroying them. I sympathize. Being assaulted by really fast ships that do a lot of precision damage sucks, but can you think of some natural counters to that? Hint: Ctrl+Click -> Approach -> Activate Modules is not gonna cut it.

Adapt or die.


I know it must be hard to comprehend but when some people talk about game balance they don't talk about themselves losing to svipuls or losing their favorite toy. I'm flying confessors and svipuls since they were introduced and i had roughly 200 solo kill with them. I killed small gangs, hacs and stuff i shouldn't be able to kill in a brawling dessie hull. I know from first hand experience that right know and even with the upcoming nerf it's not worth flying anything else. Svipuls should die to bigger hulls, it's their intended weakness. dessies one strenght always has been dps. They could get lowish cruiser dps on squishy hulls except t3 dessies hulls are far from squishy. They got cruiser tanks which in combination with frig speed and their still small sig amd abundance of slots makes them insanely powerful against cruiser and bc hulls on top of their ABSOLUTE TACTICAL SUPERIORITY in the world of frigs. This is highly ironic since well balanced t3 dessies could have had the potential to bring more cruisers into the current frig meta but now there is even less reason flying them.


The obvious solution would be to make t3 dessies dessies again: Kind of slow and kind of squishy. More specialized dictors should be kind of better slightly at kiting (speed, projection) and af's should be faster aswell. Even in speed mode. I just hope CCP realizes that now and not after a year of svipuls online.
Tia Lee
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#469 - 2015-04-22 12:12:31 UTC
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:

Assault frigates are fast, with excellent tank, and good damage projection. What are THEIR weaknesses?
Interceptors are really fast, with small signatures and good resistances (i.e. tank), and with their mobility, they can use range dictation to control how much damage you do to them and how much damage they do to you (i.e. damage projection). What are THEIR weaknesses?
Faction frigates combine the various qualities of speed, tank, and damage (and other qualities), but generally speaking, they have two of the three in spades. What are THEIR weaknesses?

What if frigates were the problem?


The fact that you are asking these questions shows that you have no clue when it comes to balancing

Af's are not fast as you stated but slow. Infact they are by far the slowest frigs -even slower than Attack cruisers in some cases. That is their balancing trait.

Pirate frigs on the other hand have tiny tanks. That is their balancing trait.

Now what's the balancing trait of T3 dessies? See?
Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#470 - 2015-04-22 14:32:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitch Kaneland
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
The role of the Svipul is to be flexible


This is the problem.
The Svipul is a destroyer. Generally speaking, the role of a destroyer is counter-assault. 1 interdictor can literally counter the assault of thousands of players by droping an interdiction sphere probe thingamajig, but generally destroyers do this counter-assault by just being alert, precise and destructive. They lock fast, shoot far, hit hard and just blow you up if you approach something they don't want you to approach, such as themselves.

The Wolf is an ASSAULT frigate. The role of a frigate, generally speaking, is fast assault or just mobility + a special functionality.

Many of the scenarios you are describing involve a lightly-tanked fast-assault ship approaching a counter-assault ship and being destroyed. I don't see a problem with the game balance. I see a problem with those individual players' strategy. Attacking a destructive ship with a lightly-tanked ship ends badly. It's not rocket science. If you don't have the numbers, GTFO the grid or they will interdict and destroy you.

Another grouping of scenarios you are describing involves fast assault ships that aren't assaulting. They're trying to have a stand-off engagement at 40km with a ship specialized at shooting things to death quickly. That's not gonna work either.

I understand you don't like that tactical destroyers are ungodly fast in propulsion mode, but how slow are they supposed to be? (Not a rhetorical question.) So slow that a Tornado warps in at 50km and alphas them off the field before they can respond? So slow that something like a Garmur kites them and pecks them to death? So slow that they cannot even defend themselves from the action they are supposed to defend others from? That doesn't make sense. Unfortunately, in order to react and destroy fast, assaulting ships, they have to be fast themselves.

So, it sounds like these frigates are having trouble with Svipuls conducting fast assaults and destroying them. I sympathize. Being assaulted by really fast ships that do a lot of precision damage sucks, but can you think of some natural counters to that? Hint: Ctrl+Click -> Approach -> Activate Modules is not gonna cut it.

Adapt or die.


Stop reading what you want to read, and actually read what im posting plz.

Its not that a dessie is killing frigs, its that the t3d has made it so there is no reason to fly an AF. More dps, more tank, more SPEED, and similar/better projection as AF. How many times do i need to say this till you understand that the ship is OP? It obsoletes an entire class of ships. T3s are about flexability to be decent at multiple fits, not to be a top tier best of the best (which seems to be what you are implying). It means it needs to have drawbacks or be worse in some way than the more specialized t2 ships.

For example. Compare the loki to the vagabond, or the muninn (depending on subsystem). Loki can get the same dps, similar tank and projection as the vaga. But is not nearly as fast. Edit: but can fit a long web.

Or, if fit with arty and a different subsystem, it has slightly more dps than a muninn, about the same speed, more tank but is very vulnerable to frigates (no drone bay).

Where is the T3d trade-off? Ive proved already that its better in all ways when compared to its SPECIALIZED t2 counterparts. You just seem like your mad cause your favorite toy is getting nerfed.

As to the nado comment, learn to transversal. Or use dscan to see him coming and gtfo. Or.. just suck it up? People get sniped by nados all the time. Doesnt mean the ship is weak.

Also.. lol at fast assault ships. The jag/wolf are the fastest, and the svipul is about 600m/s faster in prop mode than both of them. And only about 400-500m/s slower in defense mode. Not accounting for unscrammable 10mn fits.

Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS

Make the Muninn great again!
Erasmus Grant
Order of the Eclipse
Triumvirate.
#471 - 2015-04-22 15:19:08 UTC
Will this fix the instalocking near instablap Svipuls? I have lost many intys to these kind of svipuls.
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#472 - 2015-04-22 15:20:57 UTC
The Scan Resolution in and out of Sharpshooter mode remains the same.

// [PvP Damage Done by Class (Scylla)] //

[Cruisers Online]
abrasive soap
Gape Deep Core Mining
#473 - 2015-04-22 16:02:19 UTC
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
Tia Lee wrote:
To ensure [fun,] ships must have carefully balanced strenghts and weaknesses.


OK, but how do you carefully balance a ship that may be flown by a player with barely enough skillpoints to sit in it -> (anyone in between) -> a player with perfectly maxed skills to fly the fitting? How do you carfully balance a ship that may be flown 1vs1 against the weakest, most vulnerable ship class in the game -> a ship of the same class of exactly equal fitting -> 1 vs 100 against super capitals or anything in between? How do you carefully balance a ship flying to its strengths and in a tactically superior position against a ship that is being "misused" and starting out in a bad position? Can it be as simple as: "Svipuls are beating Wolfs 1v1 in low sec belts and FW complexes, therefore, nerf."?

Tia Lee wrote:
T3 destroyers combinefar too many strenghts of other ships classes with almost no weaknesses.


Assault frigates are fast, with excellent tank, and good damage projection. What are THEIR weaknesses?
Interceptors are really fast, with small signatures and good resistances (i.e. tank), and with their mobility, they can use range dictation to control how much damage you do to them and how much damage they do to you (i.e. damage projection). What are THEIR weaknesses?
Faction frigates combine the various qualities of speed, tank, and damage (and other qualities), but generally speaking, they have two of the three in spades. What are THEIR weaknesses?

What if frigates were the problem?

AF's are slow
Interceptors have low damage and are far from being the anti frig frig they used to be

Faction frigs are op if you have the isk (garmur, worm, etc)

Svipuls are pretty damn overpowered, but the confessor is balanced
Braccer
Saints Of Havoc
#474 - 2015-04-22 16:48:12 UTC
Glad to see them getting a small nerf. Having a confessor shooting me from 70-80km and kiting anything tanky enough to get close is annoying at best.

Only thing i do find somewhat annoying is that the amarr ship is faster than a minmatar, just seems to go against the nature of the rest of their respective ship tree's.
SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#475 - 2015-04-22 17:10:04 UTC  |  Edited by: SFM Hobb3s
Braccer wrote:
Glad to see them getting a small nerf. Having a confessor shooting me from 70-80km and kiting anything tanky enough to get close is annoying at best.

Only thing i do find somewhat annoying is that the amarr ship is faster than a minmatar, just seems to go against the nature of the rest of their respective ship tree's.



FYI I've been doing that to goons for weeks now with a 1mn mwd fit. This upcoming patch is going to let me upgrade to the better guns, so I'll be able to add 15km optimal to that range, and an extra 50 dps. Sure I'm losing some speed/agility, but sniper fits don't really need it. Maybe just to get off gates a bit faster, we'll see after the patch.
Kel Kun
The Body Of Christ
#476 - 2015-04-22 18:16:41 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:


Still trying to balance with price huh... thought you learned that lesson..



hahaha! What kind of power you think you have on the nerfs except for crying?
Kel Kun
The Body Of Christ
#477 - 2015-04-22 18:19:00 UTC
Braccer wrote:
Glad to see them getting a small nerf. Having a confessor shooting me from 70-80km and kiting anything tanky enough to get close is annoying at best.

Only thing i do find somewhat annoying is that the amarr ship is faster than a minmatar, just seems to go against the nature of the rest of their respective ship tree's.



You just have to warp out, confessors can't pin you at that distance, and also their dps is very small...


The crusader is the fastest interceptor and is amarr. The matars have the lowest mass ships, not the fastest ones. Big difference.
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#478 - 2015-04-22 20:47:13 UTC
Tia Lee wrote:
Af's are not fast as you stated but slow. Infact THEY ARE BY FAR THE SLOWEST FRIGS -even slower than Attack cruisers in some cases.

abrasive soap wrote:
AF's are slow

Stitch Kaneland wrote:
The jag/wolf are the fastest, and the svipul is about 600m/s faster in prop mode than both of them. And only about 400-500m/s slower in defense mode.


So, on the one hand, assault frigates are obsolete because they are 600m/s slower than a propulsion mode Svipul (presumably MWD fitted). On the other hand, Svipul is overpowered even when Wolf and Jaguar are 400-500m/s faster than Svipul in 2 of its 3 tactical modes.

Tactical destroyers are overpowered for being able to catch and destroy the slowest ships in the frigate class (Stealth bombers seem pretty damn slow, but whatever.), but the rest of the frigates, which are presumably faster, are NOT overpowered in any way.

What if frigates were the problem?

Tia Lee wrote:
Pirate frigs on the other hand have tiny tanks.

Stitch Kaneland wrote:
With 3500m/s speed, my speed is my tank, therefore the tanking mode is not needed.


So, on the one hand, the Svipul's speed tank is overpowered, but on the other hand, a pirate frigate's speed tank, which is as fast or faster than a Svipul, is no problem.

I'll ask again: What if frigates were the problem?
Orob Ninebands
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#479 - 2015-04-22 20:48:37 UTC
What a bunch of whiners! Most ships can fit an AB one size larger, why shouldn't a T3D?

I've gotten my but kicked by T3Ds plenty, but rather than cry about it, I learned to fly them myself. Come up with a counter folks.

I'm not opposed to making them cost a bit more to reflect their capability, but ffs, do we have to nerf every good thing just because people can't adapt?
Tia Lee
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#480 - 2015-04-22 21:21:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Tia Lee
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:



So, on the one hand, the Svipul's speed tank is overpowered, but on the other hand, a pirate frigate's speed tank, which is as fast or faster than a Svipul, is no problem.

I'll ask again: What if frigates were the problem?


I sincerely hope that you are either trolling or that you are just fighting tooth and nail to farm kills until everybody is sick of the t3d meta and quits eve. Whatever it may be, i won't entangle myself in a discussion with you since you are obviously either unwlling or unable to respond rationally.

Anyway, the level of idiocy in this thread has reached a new high. I'm not used to this anymore

Basically it comes down to this: Some people will just be happy with an op ship aslong as they can kill the occasional noob who doesn't fly one. Some people on the other hand like balance and variety and interesting gameplay. The latter group of people doesn't like t3 dessies in their current form. They make EVE a worse game. It's as simple as that.