These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Crime & Punishment

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Bitter Vet - High Sec War Decs are Broken. Lets Talk :)

First post
Author
alexclone1
Junkyard Gunners.
#241 - 2015-04-21 19:53:51 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
alexclone1 wrote:

What is up with you and mouths? Ive never been war dec'd due to smarting off.


Yet. Like I said, if anyone finds the carebear corp this guy is trying to hide, let me know.


I JUST TOLD YOU MY MAIN. READ UP. FFS

Seriously, what is your malfunction?
Zura Namee
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#242 - 2015-04-21 19:55:12 UTC
alexclone1 wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
alexclone1 wrote:

What is up with you and mouths? Ive never been war dec'd due to smarting off.


Yet. Like I said, if anyone finds the carebear corp this guy is trying to hide, let me know.


I JUST TOLD YOU MY MAIN. READ UP. FFS

Seriously, what is your malfunction?


Thread's not gonna live long if you keep blowing up every time you take the bait man
alexclone1
Junkyard Gunners.
#243 - 2015-04-21 19:56:08 UTC
Zura Namee wrote:
alexclone1 wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
alexclone1 wrote:

What is up with you and mouths? Ive never been war dec'd due to smarting off.


Yet. Like I said, if anyone finds the carebear corp this guy is trying to hide, let me know.


I JUST TOLD YOU MY MAIN. READ UP. FFS

Seriously, what is your malfunction?


Thread's not gonna live long if you keep blowing up every time you take the bait man


Meh, im done making my point anyways. high sec merc game community is toxic at best. Cant even have an adult conversation with so many trolling to make their point.
Estella Osoka
Perkone
Caldari State
#244 - 2015-04-21 19:56:25 UTC
alexclone1 wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
My only issue with wardecs is that they have no substance. No goals or objectives except your personal ones. I don't mind the current mechanics, but they can easily be avoided and/or abused at the same time by both parties. There is no substance in wardecs like you get out of FW. By substance I mean, capture/destroy X = profit or points. Only profit is from loot, tears, or isk via merc contracts. Wardecs need a better prize/motivator.

I'll bet most wardecs go something like this:

Red 1: We just wardec'd another corp. More targets! YARRHHH!
Red 2: YAH!
Red 3 and up: Alright!! YES!! Awesome!

Blue 1: We got wardec'd. Drop corp or you can just wait it out. Don't undock and give easy kills.
Blue 2: We could just create another corp and all join that.
Blue 1: good idea.

2 days later:
Player 1: Looks like the members of that corp either don't undock, or just dropped corp. No targets.
Player 2: BOOO!!
Players 3 and up: That sucks! They can't do that!

1 week later:
Player 1: Well, that was a waste of isk.
Players 2 and up: Agreed.


Some players are dumb, and those are the ones that get gut punched when a wardec comes around. I say to those people, "Welcome to EVE! Hope you just learned something!"


Problem with dropping corps is that it looks really bad on your employment history.


Having a long employment history isn't a bad thing.
alexclone1
Junkyard Gunners.
#245 - 2015-04-21 19:56:57 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
alexclone1 wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
My only issue with wardecs is that they have no substance. No goals or objectives except your personal ones. I don't mind the current mechanics, but they can easily be avoided and/or abused at the same time by both parties. There is no substance in wardecs like you get out of FW. By substance I mean, capture/destroy X = profit or points. Only profit is from loot, tears, or isk via merc contracts. Wardecs need a better prize/motivator.

I'll bet most wardecs go something like this:

Red 1: We just wardec'd another corp. More targets! YARRHHH!
Red 2: YAH!
Red 3 and up: Alright!! YES!! Awesome!

Blue 1: We got wardec'd. Drop corp or you can just wait it out. Don't undock and give easy kills.
Blue 2: We could just create another corp and all join that.
Blue 1: good idea.

2 days later:
Player 1: Looks like the members of that corp either don't undock, or just dropped corp. No targets.
Player 2: BOOO!!
Players 3 and up: That sucks! They can't do that!

1 week later:
Player 1: Well, that was a waste of isk.
Players 2 and up: Agreed.


Some players are dumb, and those are the ones that get gut punched when a wardec comes around. I say to those people, "Welcome to EVE! Hope you just learned something!"


Problem with dropping corps is that it looks really bad on your employment history.


Having a long employment history isn't a bad thing.


as a null sec CEO, yea it is :)
Solecist Project
#246 - 2015-04-21 19:57:22 UTC
alexclone1 wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
alexclone1 wrote:

What is up with you and mouths? Ive never been war dec'd due to smarting off.


Yet. Like I said, if anyone finds the carebear corp this guy is trying to hide, let me know.


I JUST TOLD YOU MY MAIN. READ UP. FFS

Seriously, what is your malfunction?


No, they are hate-baiting you into responses so you slowly go nuts.

I suggest stopping, because you can not possibly handle so many people at once.

Constantly reading and replying.
Reading and replying.
And time pressure, of course.
More reading.
More replies.


The brain isn't made for that.


I certainly will abandon this thread now ...
... because I can't possibly support these selfish haters.


Too bad for the thread, it went into the right direction.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#247 - 2015-04-21 19:59:55 UTC
alexclone1 wrote:

Meh, im done making my point anyways. high sec merc game community is toxic at best. Cant even have an adult conversation with so many trolling to make their point.


You had no point in the first place, except to ask for the return of an exploit that was justly removed.

This is EVE Online. You don't get to carebear in peace.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#248 - 2015-04-21 20:02:40 UTC
Imagine a world, where only the highest SP toon on a subscribed account could post on the EvE-O forums. Wouldn't fix everything, but...

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#249 - 2015-04-21 20:15:01 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
alexclone1 wrote:

Meh, im done making my point anyways. high sec merc game community is toxic at best. Cant even have an adult conversation with so many trolling to make their point.


You had no point in the first place, except to ask for the return of an exploit that was justly removed.

This is EVE Online. You don't get to carebear in peace.

Well, except for when you do, which tends to be most of the players most of the time, and probably a few of the players all of the time.
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#250 - 2015-04-21 20:16:17 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Imagine a world, where only the highest SP toon on a subscribed account could post on the EvE-O forums. Wouldn't fix everything, but...



But wouldn't fix anything at all. First off, many people have multiple accounts. I could just post with the account iike most, still hiding my main.

Or say I was a major Indy player. I want to try PvP and buy a character with more skill points. I would be forced to use the new character.

Or heck, I could alternate training on two characters and who I post as on the forums would change each week.
Danalee
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#251 - 2015-04-21 20:25:51 UTC
ISD troll, best troll.

+1 would read again.

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Samwise Everquest
Plus 10 NV
#252 - 2015-04-21 20:26:57 UTC
[quote=alexclone1]

Here is my tldr: A pvp alliance can war dec just about everyone, at once, for an unlimited amount of time because the costs are so low. Raise the costs.

Welcome back to the sandbox. As someone who has been a defender and now an aggressor in highsec wars, I can relate to both sides of the argument.

I have a lot to say on the matter but unfortunately I got to go. I do have a question though.

Why were you wardeced? Who were you wardeced by? And did you talk to them about surrender?

I've seen wars last less than 15 minutes because the corp contacted said mercs and worked out a deal. I am not saying bend over and take it while handing over all your ISK but you would be surprised how fair some of the merc alliance CEOs are.

Don't talk ****, just convo them and plea you case. In a game centered around politics and social interaction, people forget to simply talk things over.

Pras Phil.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#253 - 2015-04-21 20:30:09 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

Well, except for when you do, which tends to be most of the players most of the time, and probably a few of the players all of the time.


Don't be obtuse. I meant that the possibility of risk and loss exists, and you know it.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Mike Adoulin
Happys Happy Hamster Hunting Club
#254 - 2015-04-21 20:50:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Mike Adoulin
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
alexclone1 wrote:
Hello, i am posting with an alt.


I stopped reading.


Ding.

Calling the OP an unmitigated liar, as anybody that is too gutless to post with their main has obviously done nothing of note.

Also, OP, wardecs ARE broken. The reason the mercs have all formed large (relatively) alliances (Marmite, Forsaken, etc) is that the wardec costs are so hi now, small merc/pirate corps simpy aren't viable.

And it doesn't help that dec evasion is now blessed by CCP , instead of being a bannable offense, like it used to be.

So have CCP raise wardec prices again. Watch even more hisec pvpers jump into the large merc alliances.

Also, OP, what stopped your no-doubt highly profitable mining/indy corp from hiring a big merc alliance to defend you, eh?

Hmmm?

Ally mechanics mean they don't have to do an outbound wardec, and its usually cheaper to hire them as allies, last time I checked.

...........

Yeah, that's what I thought.

Everything in EVE is a trap.

And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)

You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.

Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.

Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#255 - 2015-04-21 20:58:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Akirei Scytale
Mr Deleted wrote:
highsec is overrated, lowsec is where its at, and it solves the war deccing problems, all the war deccers cant go to lowsec, thats where real fights are


Cute, but you're only halfway there. Real PvP doesn't punish you for fighting and lets you use all the toys.

@OP: You're full of **** till you post with the main that did the things you claim to have done.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#256 - 2015-04-21 21:34:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Vimsy Vortis
alexclone1 wrote:
buff war decs to the price to flip a corp. This is an example of someone who doesnt have the ability to view life from another's perspective. There are others that want to play the game in their own way. Not your way.

There is a whole universe of pvp opportunities. Why would you want to further buff high sec war mechanics?


You shouldn't think about it in terms of buffs and nerfs. You should think about it in terms of making highsec not suck **** for everyone involved. The current situation with massive, extremely powerful wardec entities and other groups just being totally defenseless and incredibly passive isn't fun for anyone.

It's not fun for the carebears who feel like they can't win a fight because numbers, it's not fun for the aggressors who don't get a fight and it's not fun for the random person flying through space who doesn't see any interesting things happening in the space he's passing through.

What we should all want as players is for the mechanics to be good, not for them to benefit our personal playstyle. Right now the ally system massively benefits me and people like me, but it's hugely damaging to the general accessibility of wars to the general populace, subsequently I think it needs to be changed. Reducing the cost of wars, specifically for corporations against other corporations (vice against or between alliances) wouldn't benefit me at all, but it would allow for smaller groups to exist again and subsequently give carebears a better chance to effectively defend themselves.

The carebear approach to proposing war changes is inherently to make them more expensive and more difficult to execute, that will only widen the gap between the aggressors and defenders and make the current issues more extreme.
Estella Osoka
Perkone
Caldari State
#257 - 2015-04-21 21:56:58 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
alexclone1 wrote:
buff war decs to the price to flip a corp. This is an example of someone who doesnt have the ability to view life from another's perspective. There are others that want to play the game in their own way. Not your way.

There is a whole universe of pvp opportunities. Why would you want to further buff high sec war mechanics?


You shouldn't think about it in terms of buffs and nerfs. You should think about it in terms of making highsec not suck **** for everyone involved. The current situation with massive, extremely powerful wardec entities and other groups just being totally defenseless and incredibly passive isn't fun for anyone.

It's not fun for the carebears who feel like they can't win a fight because numbers, it's not fun for the aggressors who don't get a fight and it's not fun for the random person flying through space who doesn't see any interesting things happening in the space he's passing through.

What we should all want as players is for the mechanics to be good, not for them to benefit our personal playstyle. Right now the ally system massively benefits me and people like me, but it's hugely damaging to the general accessibility of wars to the general populace, subsequently I think it needs to be changed. Reducing the cost of wars, specifically for corporations against other corporations (vice against or between alliances) wouldn't benefit me at all, but it would allow for smaller groups to exist again and subsequently give carebears a better chance to effectively defend themselves.

The carebear approach to proposing war changes is inherently to make them more expensive and more difficult to execute, that will only widen the gap between the aggressors and defenders and make the current issues more extreme.


Quoting for truth. Current mechanics suck, there needs to be some incentive for the defender to WANT to fight. Currently it is far easier to drop a corp and create a new one than actually fighting.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#258 - 2015-04-21 22:52:08 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:

Quoting for truth. Current mechanics suck, there needs to be some incentive for the defender to WANT to fight. Currently it is far easier to drop a corp and create a new one than actually fighting.


My thoughts on the matter are as follows:

First, severe nerfs to NPC corps. Only player corps should be capable of using L4 mission agents and receive LP from Incursions, and NPC corp players older than 90 days have an additional 10% tax on top of normal.

If being in a player corp is the optimal choice for generating personal income, then being in a corp becomes something worth fighting for. That will never happen so long as NPC corps have so few functional penalties/limitations. Doing this also takes a step towards rebalancing risk vs reward, since NPC corps give up almost nothing in exchange for a huge buff to safety.

Secondly, the dec dodge exploit must be either removed or harshly punished. There are a number of ways this can be done, and I personally favor the generation of killrights against a player who drops to an NPC corp during an active war(or anyone who rejoins a player corp within 72 hours after having dropped, perhaps). Regardless, the ability to fold a corp and make it over again in a matter of minutes must be removed. Therefore, corp creation price should increase, and possibly have a cooldown associated with specific characters creating a corporation after having left one. Furthermore, any corp that dissolves during an active war has it's name and corp ticker suspended, and given to the attacking corp as a trophy.

Thirdly, player corps would receive the ability to improve mission LP rewards in a specific consellation via a starbase module. Only one can exist per constellation, so if you want the bonus you have to destroy the starbase of the current owner. The map would show which corp controlls the module, and what system it is located in. This incentivizes PvE corps to fight amongst themselves for better territory, as well as give player corps reasons to have assets in space for reasons besides industry and manufacturing.

To summarize:

Only player corps can access L4 missions or receive LP from incursions.
NPC corp taxes are raised +10% for players over 90 days old.
Killrights generated against dec dodging.
Corps that dissolve during an active war have their names and ticker lost, given to the attacker as a trophy.
Corp creation price increase.
Corp creation cooldown after leaving a player corp.
Highsec ESS as a starbase module, one per constellation. Boosts LP given from mission rewards to corp members.

And then, player corps are worth fighting for. The defender has a stake in the game, the rewards that come with being in a player corp. The typical highsec corps also have a reason to fight one another, for control of the constellation.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
R I O T
#259 - 2015-04-21 23:18:22 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
The solution is having those seasoned, dedicated pvpers as part of your team. The industrialists gain the benefit of protection (and I'm talking real protection, as in "wait a second, did these guys just put a dozen Vindicators on the field? I thought we were going to kill Retrievers?"), and the pvpers get the benefit of cheaper stuff, and maybe having someone else cover their war fees for a change.

And that last part I typed there? It's important. The trick to retaining these pvpers isn't just helping them out financially, but actually allowing them to operate how they want, under their own rules. Then they can go out and do the same pvp they would have done on their own, while the industrialists do their own thing. No one has to bleed their eyes out watching miners mine for twelve. Meanwhile, the non-rubbish killboard stats show everyone that you're a hard target, and no one ever dares to **** with you.

But all the time they are away doing their PvP, war targets get to roam free stomping all over your PvE players. That's no different to how right now you can hire mercs who will sometimes be there, which is pretty much useless in most cases. AS for them being scared off, these big wardec alliance attack each other, pure PvP focused corps. they also attack groups like RvB, a PvP focused group with thousands of players. I don't think most of them would be scared off because your players also kill stuff. If anything it's a jackpot. they get both carebears and gudfites in the same dec fee!

You have no clue what you're talking about. Zero. It's all conjecture about various playstyles with which you have no experience, and an inherent unfamiliarity. And until you do acquire this experience and familiarity, this stuff you say amounts to nothing more than sensationalist panic-mongering.

alexclone1 wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
I'm going to give you a really big clue, OP. And I won't post it on an alt, either. Are you ready?

As someone who has ran/currently is running multiple high-sec piracy/mercenary corporations, I haven't had any problem with incoming war declarations, even in the very, very rare instances in which we actually received them.

Why do you think this is?

Because those that war dec only want to shoot at miners? And not engage in actual pvp?

My point isnt that an industrial corp shouldnt be war dec'd at all. But currently the ability for 300+ people to war dec AT ONCE and PERMANENTLY does seem right. How is a corp supposed to grow to a point where it can defend itself?

That's very easy to answer: by not presenting itself as a target.

Perform a little experiment, if you can. Start up two new corporations. In the first one, recruit as quickly as possible (take everyone with a pulse who's willing to fit a strip miner), advertise yourself plainly, and stick to a strict regimen of pve activities. In the second one, recruit slower and make sure to do proper background checks, don't advertise yourself as a purely industrial corporation, and finally, initiate two three outgoing wars when you start up, and then one or two every month or so.

Then tell us all which of the two corporations gets swarmed with war declarations.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Paranoid Loyd
#260 - 2015-04-21 23:22:24 UTC
Uh oh. DC vs LK Let's get it on!

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!