Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Personally, I wish the speed of the svipul wouldn't be nerfed too much. My current load out looses almost 500 m/s. I do enjoy going fast. I understand that there is a problem with it when people use 10mm afterburners, but I'm not one of those players and I feel that the speed nerf is unjust. Regardless, it'll still be one of my favorite ships to fly after the nerf, but a whole lot less favorite.

Edit: Actually, mulling over it at home, I have come to the conclusion I'll just stop playing. I don't pay companies to mess with my fun because losers in other part of the game can't cope with the fact they're getting outplayed. I keep forgetting CCP has a history of catering to whiny losers.

oh changes are already on SISI - didn't know that.

Just a heads up: a bug of the fitting window basically forces you to repackage your old t3 before changing the fit. because no matter what you do it will tell you you have too many turrets fit. (its off by 1)

feedback/observations:
- 10mn nerf is quite significant. Acceleration, agility and the amount the ship slows down if you change direction are noticeably worse
- fitting them will require empty utility highs and 2 grid rigs in many cases (only tested the confessor)

i predict it will be quite difficult to use 10mn fits in small scale pvp, unless all you are doing is to fly in one direction and hope something is chasing after you. So if that was the goal i can see that it will succeed.

Confessor is hit hardest since the 10mn AB was a good replacement for the lack of a web in the brawling variants due to the slot layout.

i would test more if the bug in the fitting window would not be there

Overall pretty happy with the changes. Sad about the -2 gun visual nerf, but I will give props to the idea in terms of balancing.

10mn fit nerf hurts Confessor more than Svipul since it needs it for range control. Svipul has other options if it doesn't fit a 10mn. Cap nerf hurts Confessor more as well, since it needs it to run every aspect of the ship - active tank/prop/guns/tackle. Most of the popular Svipul fits only require cap for prop mod and tackle (ASBs and autocannons for the rest). They now have the option to fit a nos to keep tackle or run double neuts. I understand that lasers are lasers and autocannons are autocannons but for small guns, the advantage of scorch is far less pronounced, especially if you're fighting in scram range and don't have any range control.

Basically I would keep the 10mn fitting nerf but the cap/agility nerf for the Confessor IMO was wholly unneeded.

I can tell you where my Confessor is lacking - in everything!!

Sidenote:
After the first lecture in college my professor said, "I told you this, you know this now." - after repeating all of highschool math in 90 minutes..

I have to admint that not everyone on Earth can see as far as I can, my aplogogies - I was born this way.

Moving on, the Confessor was nerfed so much that she is now an expensive gankmail waiting to happen. The agility nerf plus the capacitor nerf go so far over the top that she became unusable in one stroke.

If only someone could have prediceted this - oh wait-

Maybe most of the faction warfare folks are unaware of it but lowsec is not the only environment in EVE. There is more dangerous space out there where you have to make - pun intended - make tactical desicions on a whimp and since you can only go there in a small boat, you want the goodest(est) option available to you.

The tactical destroyer was your best option for those environments.

The matari one may be able to go there but the Amarr one got gutted, violated and made unusable - everywhere.

Can I has my skillpoints back now?

Hey fozzie,
Is there a way we can keep all 6 guns. But still do your whole nerf. I mean, dessies are big gun little ships, like there big bros the battlecruisers, all these guns and a hard time to fit sounds best .!
Just sucks seeing half the nerf being -2 guns.
Starting to sound more like a marauder than a Dessie duder.

Why not keep all za gunz bro and toss some fitting aside. Just feels right being in a DESTROYER and having a TON OF GUNZ but a prickly bugger to fit em!
:D


I forget your exact words but, I remember you saying you wanted them to be fun,
Well, why not step back and take a look at what people find pretty cool about these ships.
-seem to be great tackle options
-Dope solo pvp
-mode swapping on the fly
-fast and nimble
-great cost vs loss ratio
-tank is really nice for such a small ship.

And there is much more, but what id like to point out is that I notice a simularity between the little Dessie's and there cruiser buddys, they can adapt to a situation, but also fit what you feel is required for that situation. Is this nerf intended on taking that away from them? Or just to cramp some other peeps play styles.

Anyways ....KEEP THE GUNS DUDE ditch what you think isnt needed.

And you only ever see, what you want to see.

Did I mention that the Confessor was not the ship the kids where complaining about? Please show me where any wormhole resident where complaining about Confessors being overpowered.

Wait, are you saying you where not supposed to be light anti-tackle in cruiser online?

I still think the nerf in powergrid is too high.

A confessor fitted with a 10mn ab needs multiple ACR II rigs, not to mention the uselessness of its "new" utility slots. (because of too little pg to play with).

I can understand the need of some balance tweaks, but the pg nerf is too harsh.
A reduction of 10-12 pg would be way better than -18 pg. (for the svipul, too)

Thanks for the response.

So, this is somewhat just echoing what others have said but I think the performance difference between the Confessor and Svipul has never been that huge. Maybe 5 to 10% at best, that's just enough for one to beat the other in most cases (and be that much better than everything else).

If they left the Confessor alone in cap and agility we would almost certainly be back here again in a few months nerfing the Confessor. As things stand we have two more of these T3Ds to release so there's plenty of time and opportunity for CCP to tweak all four so they sit at about the same relative power level. If the relative status of the Confessor and Svipul doesn't change after these tweaks they'll probably dial back the cap nerf a bit or buff other stats slightly, though I expect the agility changes to stick.



I do not dislike destroyers, nor have I ever said it. So please and thank you stop putting words in my mouth.

If you'd care to look at the relationship between the T1 Destroyers and T1 Frigates, T2 Destroyers and Frigates, or even the T2 Destroyers to the T1 Frigates you'll note that the stats tend to favor Damage on the Destroyers and Speed and tank (of one sort or another) on the Frigates. Thus the frigates still have plenty of room to do things the Frigates can't and thus room to out-play and destroy them.

Your entire argument is that "But destroyers are MEANT to be better than Frigates!!!" but that's silly and doesn't follow the stats of anything else in the game, nor does it even suggest that a Destroyer should be able to beat a frigate at its own game, which in this case is speed.

Using real life as an excuse for poor game balance is silly, two dimensional, and at the moment completely irrelevant to any sort of productive conversation going on in this thread. The T3Ds are getting nerfed and personally I'm quite looking forward to the changes. They should open up a lot more interesting choices in small ship solo and small gang combat as well as fleet ops. You can either deal with that or not, but either way please stop comparing Eve to any sort of real life naval combat.



Pretty sure making them make significant trade-offs for that 10MN AB is the point. It's a very very powerful thing, and like anything in Eve you shouldn't be able to have your cake and eat it too. At least not without beating the crap out of everyone else trying to take it first.

Relevant Dwarf Fortress comic, possibly NSFW

I'm sorry but this just isn't the case in Eve at any level. Not at T1, not at T2, and, if you'll look at the incoming balance changes, not with these new T3 Destroyers compared to Tier 2 Frigates. At this point I'm not demanding anything, I'm fairly happy with the current state of the T3 Destroyers compared to the various T3 Frigates, so at this point I'm just pointing at the changes and saying "see, look, that's not how this is working" and you're pointing me at Wikipedia articles for real-life stuff and saying it somehow applies when it doesn't.

Personally I feel we've gone off topic for the original thread and won't be responding to this line of discussion further. You're welcome to think what you like about what Destroyers should or shouldn't be but that doesn't change what they are or what's good for the game.