These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[April] [Updated] Confessor and Svipul Balance Tweaks

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Teh Tripple
State War Academy
Caldari State
#361 - 2015-04-14 20:55:47 UTC
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:
Teh Tripple wrote:
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:
Teh Tripple wrote:
2 med neuts or 2 webs to get dps down and its dead


Cool story, only that it has been tried and proven mathematically impossible to do so. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Even with these second pass changes, they obsolete all of the AFs as a class.


its a destroyer...... it kills frigs.


Killing is fine - eliminating the need for an entire class like Assault Frigates is not.

Three Gud Modes™ - Ceptor/AF/Destroyer - be all you wanna be at a click of a buttan. Roll





so you never have to avoid any other ship type?
NovemberMike
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#362 - 2015-04-14 20:56:46 UTC
Teh Tripple wrote:

so you never have to avoid any other ship type?


This doesn't really make sense in context. What do you mean by this?
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#363 - 2015-04-14 20:58:01 UTC
Teh Tripple wrote:
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:
Teh Tripple wrote:
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:
Teh Tripple wrote:
2 med neuts or 2 webs to get dps down and its dead


Cool story, only that it has been tried and proven mathematically impossible to do so. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Even with these second pass changes, they obsolete all of the AFs as a class.


its a destroyer...... it kills frigs.


Killing is fine - eliminating the need for an entire class like Assault Frigates is not.

Three Gud Modes™ - Ceptor/AF/Destroyer - be all you wanna be at a click of a buttan. Roll


so you never have to avoid any other ship type?


I fly these cancer machines myself, that's why I'm being reasonable here.

// [PvP Damage Done by Class (Scylla)] //

[Cruisers Online]
Teh Tripple
State War Academy
Caldari State
#364 - 2015-04-14 20:59:12 UTC
it wont eliminate a ship class from the game and make it useless, AFs have a place. just like people fly cruisers of all types and not just t3
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#365 - 2015-04-14 21:01:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Iroquoiss Pliskin
Teh Tripple wrote:
it wont eliminate a ship class from the game and make it useless, AFs have a place. just like people fly cruisers of all types and not just t3


You are comparing an example with 50 times the price difference to a difference of 2x between an AF and a T3D.

Think pls

But whatever, I am glad so many people have found out back in December of '14, that they have always had these 1337 pevepee skills in 'em.

Two months to go, bring on the Jackdaw.

// [PvP Damage Done by Class (Scylla)] //

[Cruisers Online]
NovemberMike
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#366 - 2015-04-14 21:05:37 UTC
Teh Tripple wrote:
it wont eliminate a ship class from the game and make it useless, AFs have a place. just like people fly cruisers of all types and not just t3


A Huginn has longer range webs than a Loki. There is a reason to run a Huginn if you want the best webber. A Guardian is better at repping than a Legion. A HAC has reduced MWD signature compared to a T3 so there's at least some use if you want to be tough and go fast. What does an AF do better than a D3?
Teh Tripple
State War Academy
Caldari State
#367 - 2015-04-14 21:09:10 UTC
NovemberMike wrote:
Teh Tripple wrote:
it wont eliminate a ship class from the game and make it useless, AFs have a place. just like people fly cruisers of all types and not just t3


A Huginn has longer range webs than a Loki. There is a reason to run a Huginn if you want the best webber. A Guardian is better at repping than a Legion. A HAC has reduced MWD signature compared to a T3 so there's at least some use if you want to be tough and go fast. What does an AF do better than a D3?




run?

it might be a reason to buff AFs but not nerf T3Ds to the point they are worse than t1. because that's whats going to happen. thrasher was always strong against AFs when arty fit
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#368 - 2015-04-14 21:09:30 UTC
Easiest way to nerf them is to make the switching modes longer than 10 seconds. Bump it up to a minute.
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#369 - 2015-04-14 21:10:37 UTC
Teh Tripple wrote:
NovemberMike wrote:
Teh Tripple wrote:
it wont eliminate a ship class from the game and make it useless, AFs have a place. just like people fly cruisers of all types and not just t3


A Huginn has longer range webs than a Loki. There is a reason to run a Huginn if you want the best webber. A Guardian is better at repping than a Legion. A HAC has reduced MWD signature compared to a T3 so there's at least some use if you want to be tough and go fast. What does an AF do better than a D3?


but not nerf T3Ds to the point they are worse than t1.


[citation needed]

Provide some numbers comparing the two, please.

// [PvP Damage Done by Class (Scylla)] //

[Cruisers Online]
NovemberMike
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#370 - 2015-04-14 21:11:36 UTC
Teh Tripple wrote:
NovemberMike wrote:
Teh Tripple wrote:
it wont eliminate a ship class from the game and make it useless, AFs have a place. just like people fly cruisers of all types and not just t3


A Huginn has longer range webs than a Loki. There is a reason to run a Huginn if you want the best webber. A Guardian is better at repping than a Legion. A HAC has reduced MWD signature compared to a T3 so there's at least some use if you want to be tough and go fast. What does an AF do better than a D3?




run?

it might be a reason to buff AFs but not nerf T3Ds to the point they are worse than t1. because that's whats going to happen. thrasher was always strong against AFs when arty fit


I'm not sure you understand, it's perfectly ok that T3D's would beat AFs in a straight fight. A Legion will beat a Guardian in a shooting match any day. The question is what niche T3Ds leave for AFs, and if they don't leave a niche then something needs to be done.
Captain Semper
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#371 - 2015-04-14 21:15:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Semper
GROUND XERO wrote:
Assault frig is a frig...so what do you expect when going against a T3 destroyers when destroyers are designed to kill frigs? I never cried because i can´t solo a titan in my dread...

Ok, you were blind. Lets try again
Teh Tripple
State War Academy
Caldari State
#372 - 2015-04-14 21:16:41 UTC
NovemberMike wrote:
Teh Tripple wrote:
NovemberMike wrote:
Teh Tripple wrote:
it wont eliminate a ship class from the game and make it useless, AFs have a place. just like people fly cruisers of all types and not just t3


A Huginn has longer range webs than a Loki. There is a reason to run a Huginn if you want the best webber. A Guardian is better at repping than a Legion. A HAC has reduced MWD signature compared to a T3 so there's at least some use if you want to be tough and go fast. What does an AF do better than a D3?




run?

it might be a reason to buff AFs but not nerf T3Ds to the point they are worse than t1. because that's whats going to happen. thrasher was always strong against AFs when arty fit


I'm not sure you understand, it's perfectly ok that T3D's would beat AFs in a straight fight. A Legion will beat a Guardian in a shooting match any day. The question is what niche T3Ds leave for AFs, and if they don't leave a niche then something needs to be done.




so that's a valid reason to nerf them? because AFs no longer have a place, like BS and BC we should just nerf cruisers aswell then
Captain Semper
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#373 - 2015-04-14 21:17:35 UTC
Teh Tripple wrote:
NovemberMike wrote:
Teh Tripple wrote:
NovemberMike wrote:
Teh Tripple wrote:
it wont eliminate a ship class from the game and make it useless, AFs have a place. just like people fly cruisers of all types and not just t3


A Huginn has longer range webs than a Loki. There is a reason to run a Huginn if you want the best webber. A Guardian is better at repping than a Legion. A HAC has reduced MWD signature compared to a T3 so there's at least some use if you want to be tough and go fast. What does an AF do better than a D3?




run?

it might be a reason to buff AFs but not nerf T3Ds to the point they are worse than t1. because that's whats going to happen. thrasher was always strong against AFs when arty fit


I'm not sure you understand, it's perfectly ok that T3D's would beat AFs in a straight fight. A Legion will beat a Guardian in a shooting match any day. The question is what niche T3Ds leave for AFs, and if they don't leave a niche then something needs to be done.




so that's a valid reason to nerf them? because AFs no longer have a place, like BS and BC we should just nerf cruisers aswell then

Lol wut? A lot of BC uses in most alliance.
Mach, navy apoc, megas, rattle, domi, ravens. What are u talking about?
NovemberMike
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#374 - 2015-04-14 21:20:46 UTC
Teh Tripple wrote:


so that's a valid reason to nerf them? because AFs no longer have a place, like BS and BC we should just nerf cruisers aswell then


These are new ships so their power is in flux. They need to be slotted into an existing ecosystem. If T1 cruisers were being added to the game now I'd look at BC's and try to keep them in line with what we have.
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#375 - 2015-04-14 21:22:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Iroquoiss Pliskin
Teh Tripple wrote:
NovemberMike wrote:
Teh Tripple wrote:
NovemberMike wrote:
Teh Tripple wrote:
it wont eliminate a ship class from the game and make it useless, AFs have a place. just like people fly cruisers of all types and not just t3


A Huginn has longer range webs than a Loki. There is a reason to run a Huginn if you want the best webber. A Guardian is better at repping than a Legion. A HAC has reduced MWD signature compared to a T3 so there's at least some use if you want to be tough and go fast. What does an AF do better than a D3?




run?

it might be a reason to buff AFs but not nerf T3Ds to the point they are worse than t1. because that's whats going to happen. thrasher was always strong against AFs when arty fit


I'm not sure you understand, it's perfectly ok that T3D's would beat AFs in a straight fight. A Legion will beat a Guardian in a shooting match any day. The question is what niche T3Ds leave for AFs, and if they don't leave a niche then something needs to be done.




so that's a valid reason to nerf them?


It's called being fixed, and not only because of other smaller class irrelevancy. Blink I'll take on a cruiser any day of the week in a 10MN Confessor.

It is rather funny, really - they were threatening cruisers in a big way with 10ABs, and with these Second Pass changes, it appears to be resolved, but then the issue of AFs comes up. Blink

Before long, the percentages on the Propulsion and Defensive modes are going to be reviewed.

// [PvP Damage Done by Class (Scylla)] //

[Cruisers Online]
Deacon Abox
Black Eagle5
#376 - 2015-04-14 21:46:35 UTC
NovemberMike wrote:
Teh Tripple wrote:
it wont eliminate a ship class from the game and make it useless, AFs have a place. just like people fly cruisers of all types and not just t3


A Huginn has longer range webs than a Loki. There is a reason to run a Huginn if you want the best webber. A Guardian is better at repping than a Legion. A HAC has reduced MWD signature compared to a T3 so there's at least some use if you want to be tough and go fast. What does an AF do better than a D3?

And a command ship throws bonuses better than a . . Ah well . . here's hoping when they seriously bite into T3 cruiser subsystems they nerf the T3 command subsystems some more. The T3s are still used more than the command ships. But of course that is a digression.

As for the confessor and svipuls, yeah the svipul is still going to have too easy a time against a bunch of ship classes it probably should not be. Maybe they'll take a third look at trimming some more off of it.

CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, [u]please[/u] give us a persisting off button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals.

Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#377 - 2015-04-14 22:42:10 UTC
Deacon Abox wrote:
NovemberMike wrote:
Teh Tripple wrote:
it wont eliminate a ship class from the game and make it useless, AFs have a place. just like people fly cruisers of all types and not just t3


A Huginn has longer range webs than a Loki. There is a reason to run a Huginn if you want the best webber. A Guardian is better at repping than a Legion. A HAC has reduced MWD signature compared to a T3 so there's at least some use if you want to be tough and go fast. What does an AF do better than a D3?

And a command ship throws bonuses better than a . . Ah well . . here's hoping when they seriously bite into T3 cruiser subsystems they nerf the T3 command subsystems some more. The T3s are still used more than the command ships. But of course that is a digression.

As for the confessor and svipuls, yeah the svipul is still going to have too easy a time against a bunch of ship classes it probably should not be. Maybe they'll take a third look at trimming some more off of it.


T3's are OP because of their T2 resists .. they simply don't belong on them they make them so tough to kill especially if getting repped, there strength should be the versatility instead of being super resilient .. which is meant to be the point of the Assault line is it not? .. thus they obsolete ships they shouldn't be.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#378 - 2015-04-14 22:45:51 UTC
I have removed a rule breaking post and the one quoting it.

The Rules:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Cade Windstalker
#379 - 2015-04-14 23:00:58 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
I'm yet to see oversized/undersized prop be an interesting and balanced fitting choice. it's always either useless or game-breaking, and I don't want to wait 3 years for you guys to do little fitting tweaks on absolutely everything, when you could just cut it out entirely.


There have actually been niche Cruiser fits, namely on the Fleet Stabber, for a long time now. They just never took off like the 10MN Tengu did, and even the 10MN Tengu isn't really OP at this point, at least compared to other T3 Cruiser fits. The T3 Cruisers as a whole on the other hand... well, that's another thread Pirate

Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Why not just tie a skill loss into the T3 Destroyers?


Because skill loss was a terrible balancing mechanic on the T3 Cruisers and every sign seems to point to it going away with the eventual T3 Cruiser balance pass. It just punishes new players and older ones are both less likely to lose the ship and less worried by a day or a week's worth of training.

Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:
Artificial restriction is artificial.

Cancer will spread to null, especially with the coming new Sov capture mechanics.


Different situation. The Capture Nodes in Null aren't going to have ship restrictions and T3 Destroyers are going to need a way to actually engage things like Rapiers, Hugins, and Cruisers beyond "run away quickly" in order for them to be a viable Null fleet comp.

The plexes in FW already have restrictions, so while it doesn't fix the relationship between T3Ds and AFs it isn't a bad idea either, assuming the relative power levels stay as they are now.

TrouserDeagle wrote:
CCP ruining the balance on propless fits :[


I've yet to see a use-case on any of these ships that doesn't involve a prop mod. The balance of propless fits on these ships is "they lose to anything that fits a prop mod" so the base speed is almost irrelevant relative to the performance with a prop mod.
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#380 - 2015-04-15 00:33:33 UTC
NovemberMike wrote:
A Huginn has longer range webs than a Loki. There is a reason to run a Huginn if you want the best webber. A Guardian is better at repping than a Legion. A HAC has reduced MWD signature compared to a T3 so there's at least some use if you want to be tough and go fast. What does an AF do better than a D3?


Comparing a Tech III destroyer to a Tech II frigate is like comparing a Tech II battlecruiser to a Tech I cruiser. The comparison is just not apt at all.
An Eos will murder a Vexor.
A Svipul will murder a Wolf.
That's just about what you should expect. Should it work differently? How?