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The Shrinking Sandbox - Eve by numbers

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Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#121 - 2015-04-02 04:44:11 UTC
Olivia Moon wrote:
Sandbox indicates potential to shape the content inside the box, this is undeniable.
EVE is, to a certain extent, a sandbox MMO, also undeniable.

Players are given potential to do things, according to EULA, and CCP's state of mind as an administrator.
It's arguable that CCP has the power to ruin the sandbox.
BUT the main contributor of things changes in the sandbox comes from the players.
So, whenever you started worrying about the state of the game, do something.
As a part of the universe, you really can make some move to shape the universe.
It's not only about advertisement from the trailer or website, don't underestimate your potential to shape it.

If you want EVE to be great, you want more players?
Be proactive in promoting the game around the internet then.
Be friendly, be helpful in attracting new players to come and join the family.

CCP obviously is aware of the game, they have all the metrics and it's income-related.
But as a player, you don't want the game shrinks.
After all, do something.


That's only works if CCP as a Creator of this game do care of listen what sanboxers are all loud. If everyone start rising their hands as come up with - i want this and i want those and the guy behind me is sux and all his ideas as well here my fella and we are cool and all our ideas as well.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Asura Vajrarupa
Doomheim
#122 - 2015-04-02 05:03:20 UTC
You want to own an amount of space that takes four hours to grind? Then you grind for four hours. Or you get a hell of a lot of people and grind for one entosis cycle. Or you stop hogging so much space and let those poor defenseless small groups have some space.

Your complaint is basically that it will soon be harder for small groups of people to hoard more space then they can use. Oh the huge manatee! Or that it will be harder for large groups to hold trans-regional empires. Suffer the children!

Honestly the more tears I see over this the more I like the sov changes. Finally, players will actually have to actively use and defend what they want to call their own.

Land lords, your days are numbered!

Ignorance is the cause of suffering.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#123 - 2015-04-02 06:14:09 UTC
Tiddle Jr wrote:
I got another question - who are complainng more about sov 5.0?
A lot of alts on forums so not really clear who represents which alli or coalition.
Who do you think lose more, who would gain more after June.

Clarification;
I've been around Eve for just over 7 years, my main (and 9 other accounts) has been a member of the CFC for the last 4 years. This character, currently my only active subscription expires June 30, just long enough to see how these changes are introduced. If they are introduced as per the blog there is a good chance no accounts will be active after that date.

My corp recently made the jump and left the alliance it was in as we all got tired of CFC PAP requirements and associated crap. ( personally i haven't joined a CFC fleet for over a year as I just got tired of all the bull. "drop drones anchor up" GRRRR). Grinding pos's for days only for the moons to be given to some "ally" (usually one who didn't even have members in the grinding fleets). Plus many many other reasons that have all been mentioned before.

Our initial goal was to find an unaffiliated sov alliance but as the coming changes pretty much preclude anything other than mega allied alliances from holding any decent sov, the corp moved to lowsec.

I like the sov life, I enjoy sov warfare (structure grinding needed fixing) and with the actual 'warfare" being removed and replaced with mini games akin to FW, I am unsure if i will continue to play. I have made some good friends over the last 7 years but to continue to pay for a game that has lost its way through the actions of a few narrow minded Devs (if you can call them that with any seriousness) is something I will decide soon.

Who gains who loses;
I'm not a lowsec'r, empire is only useful for trade and FW, tried it found it a bit meh. I'm over having my play style dictated by coalitions so unless something changes soon, I lose a lot come June.

No-one really gains anything come June, not much will change except the ship types used. Titans and Supers will be able to dedicate more time to killing valuable pos's (if they are prepared to spend the weeks travelling) as they are no longer needed for structure grinds.

- - - - - - -
Comment; can I have your stuff - who cares just leave - go now no-one will miss you.
Answer; No and more than likely true.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#124 - 2015-04-02 06:59:42 UTC
Grinding stuctures is a part of null life you know that shouldn't be a surprise.

But CFC is only holds about 45% of current sov map. And never tend to spread cover 100%.

GSF got much wider angle and pov about this game than many others. Good example what happening with BNI at the moment.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#125 - 2015-04-02 07:02:15 UTC
I have no problem in seeing EVE lose people as long as those people aren't content creators, that means I'm fine if people who just grind missions or grind hilarious clown fleets sitting behind a wall of 3498573 million "friends" think that this game sucks or is boring and consequently quit playing. We don't need yet another sheeple coalition cubicle F1 player, we don't need another lvl 4 mission grinder. So please, if you feel that [insert new game that's hyped to fck but hasn't actually shown any content yet] is better then good bye and good luck, don't come back.


The old saying is still true: if you feel the game is boring it's because you chose to play it in a boring way.
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#126 - 2015-04-02 07:38:31 UTC  |  Edited by: GankYou
Sandbox is alive and well - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=413509&find=unread Blink

I cry tears of joy every time the market forces rebalance imbalances and distortions, manifesting in the final synthesis of all the hopes, the dreams and of the fears, culminating in the few digits with a decimal point - Price.

CCP can't control it, humans can't control it - it is ineffable, unutterable, it can not be described, nor can it be forced, or be manipulated in any way, shape or form at its Root, which no human eye has Seen, nor ever will See.

Eve is Real. Cool

And Eve Never Fades - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5LdPf2J_hs

...And they all crave one thing - ISK. ¤

[WTS] ME10 / TE20 BPOs from Battleships/Cruisers to Fighters, Carriers, Triage/Siege, XL modules & Cap Components
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#127 - 2015-04-02 07:58:53 UTC
GankYou wrote:
Sandbox is alive and well - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=413509&find=unread Blink

I cry tears of joy every time the market forces rebalance imbalances and distortions, manifesting in the final synthesis of all the hopes, the dreams and of the fears, culminating in the few digits with a decimal point - Price.

CCP can't control it, humans can't control it - it is ineffable, unutterable, it can not be described, nor can it be forced, or be manipulated in any way, shape or form at its Root, which no human eye has Seen, nor ever will See.

Eve is Real. Cool

And Eve Never Fades - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5LdPf2J_hs

For something they can't control they sure have a lot of influence just by using words. ^_^

But I get your point anyway. ^_^
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
#128 - 2015-04-02 08:14:45 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:


So your attitude and analysis is pretty good but not quite reality based. After 7 years, you have been around to see how we got to where we are now and unless something drastic happens, not much will change overall.



Thank you, but come on, not based in reality,,,, you think the changes CCP are about to make aren't drastic ?

Sgt Ocker wrote:

The only real change coming is Supers and Titans are being replaced with Entosis fit Condors and Rifters.



not drastic ??? ^^ lol

Sgt Ocker wrote:


Yes many will be looking at this and dreaming up plans. For the majority, plans is as far as it will get, a few might make the jump and try to hold sov.


so what's new ?

Sgt Ocker wrote:

Of those few, some who prove worthy will be absorbed into one of the bloks, others may end up holding sov that is really not worth anything but provides content for the blok members, until they get bored and force them out.


i really think the new sov system will discourage that. smaller bloks i can see coming.

Sgt Ocker wrote:


The "leaders" of the large bloks for the most part are no longer active in the game but be assured they still have a pretty firm grip on their empires. The people who do the day to day running or these organizations have no aspirations of "taking over" and until someone with more money than sense comes along who can setup an infrastructure to rival even the smallest coalition, the status quo in sov nul will remain.
Alliances will come and go but those controlling much of the nulsec content are there to stay.

Unless CCP mans up and makes each alliance responsible for the defense or capture of space they want to control, not much will change.


again you still think that only the chosen few can hold onto power. am i wrong in thinking an alliance must defend their own sov with the new system or did i read that wrong ?
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#129 - 2015-04-02 08:58:02 UTC
Wait, I thought alliances were responsible for capturing and defending sov space?

Geee.... I was wrong all these years? :O
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Sykaotic
Doomheim
#130 - 2015-04-02 09:41:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Sykaotic
Quote:
harsh, vicious, relentless and cold, is being replaced with


No its not.

Null is a bunch of Carebears, no damn different than Hi sec. Same with the hi sec gankers... just a bunch of Carebears who dont have the balls for real pvp and think they are a thing because they do pvp in a pvp ship vs a venture.

Low sec is where the true pvp exsists.

I say we (all of null and high sec) meet up down in low sec and get it on.

Lets see who shows up.... bets?
bonkerss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#131 - 2015-04-02 09:57:13 UTC
Sykaotic wrote:
Quote:
harsh, vicious, relentless and cold, is being replaced with


No its not.

Null is a bunch of Carebears, no damn different than Hi sec. Same with the hi sec gankers... just a bunch of Carebears who dont have the balls for real pvp and think they are a thing because they do pvp in a pvp ship vs a venture.

Low sec is where the true pvp exsists.

I say we (all of null and high sec) meet up down in low sec and get it on.

Lets see who shows up.... bets?


lowesc is pvp light. if you want all tactical options available to you you have to do 0.0 or wh pvp.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#132 - 2015-04-02 09:57:57 UTC
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:



Alliances will come and go but those controlling much of the nulsec content are there to stay.

Unless CCP mans up and makes each alliance responsible for the defense or capture of space they want to control, not much will change.


again you still think that only the chosen few can hold onto power. am i wrong in thinking an alliance must defend their own sov with the new system or did i read that wrong ?

LOL.. the futile attempts to be funny. I hope your trying to be funny, if not you are seriously uninformed or have just never lived in a sov nul alliance.
"An Alliance" will only need to hold their own sov if they don't have thousands of allies.

I can understand the new players not knowing how sov works and how it will continue to work post June but your character has been around a few years. You seem to favour tagging along with blok members, although you don't belong to a sov group and somehow believe these changes are going to remove the tens of thousands of allies that monopolize sov nul.

Oh and multi quoting makes it hard to respond to your drivel, lets just say. People thought a couple thousand supers was a problem, wait till it's thousands entosis links. Nothing changes but the ship type, the ability to field infinate numbers is far more feasible than fielding the same amount of supers. AND THE BLOKS WILL STILL DOMINATE SOV, funnily enough, just as they do now.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#133 - 2015-04-02 10:03:23 UTC
Eve Solecist wrote:
Wait, I thought alliances were responsible for capturing and defending sov space?

Geee.... I was wrong all these years? :O

Make "an" alliance responsible for their own sov, meaning no outside help and sov nul would be a lively and totally different game.
Sadly CCP don't have the balls to take on the giant coalitions and because they are too afraid of what might happen, players can't take them on either.

If you ever even slightly believed "an alliance" looks after their own sov, your not playing the eve style sov game.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#134 - 2015-04-02 10:38:26 UTC
Tiddle Jr wrote:
Grinding stuctures is a part of null life you know that shouldn't be a surprise.

But CFC is only holds about 45% of current sov map. And never tend to spread cover 100%.

GSF got much wider angle and pov about this game than many others. Good example what happening with BNI at the moment.

BNI - Yet another alliance taken out of the sov game to become part of the "eve by numbers" game.

No single group should control 45% of sov nul.
45% of sov is about 35% too much.
If "an alliance" can't hold their sov without armies of allies, they don't deserve it.
The CFC would never accept anything like that because within weeks they would lose their monopoly on sov.

- - - -
Grinding structures has been a part of sov since sov was invented and post June the grinding will still be there, just with smaller and more ships. Instead of a super fleet + support fleet, it will be entosis fleet + support fleet.

CCP is replacing 1 type of grinding with big ships and big fleets for another type of grinding with big fleets and small ships.

Shite with a different coat is still shite.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Brutus Utama
State War Academy
Caldari State
#135 - 2015-04-02 11:17:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Brutus Utama
The 4 hour window kinda sucks even if our alliance has its window in the time i normally get online thats my whole night spent defending space not actually playing...

maybe a move back to empire is the way for me...

The way sov is in this game makes it boring.... 90% of nullsec is owned by 4? large groups who most of the time is on friendly terms they own all the moons they want choose the best systems to live in and then say you pay this much to live there or we come and roll you...


basically forcing the smaller corps into a protection racket... they have to follow rules or get kicked out they are basically unable to decide for themselves what this wish to do....

no small or even medium size group has a chance at owning sov yes they can try with the new entosis link when its released but in the end nothing will really change the large groups still have many thousands of pawns to throw at you...even if you take sov in your system they will turn around and demand you still pay for it if you dont they will just flood your system with carriers or OP cruisers..again which you will be unable to defend against...

something in my opinion needs to be done about the size of corporations/alliances aswell as even with all the changes goons still have the biggest alliance with the most ships and the most pilots and the most money and will continue to basically rule null sec with the other large alliances/coalitions.

No small group will be able to take sov with the new changes they will just get rolled and pushed back into low/high by the huge power groups

the small groups dont have the finances to compete with the huge corps let alone the numbers....yes you can build up your corp to fight back like BNI but they just got evicted from Catch by one of the power blocks....

its basically impossible for small groups or new groups to compete....

there needs to be a limit on the number of systems which can be taken by one corp/alliance aswell as a limit on corp size and alliance size in my opinion.... maybe a limit on moons aswell...you want an R64 moon...? well thats never going to happen with the current mechanics
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#136 - 2015-04-02 11:27:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Eve Solecist
Sykaotic wrote:
Quote:
harsh, vicious, relentless and cold, is being replaced with


No its not.

Null is a bunch of Carebears, no damn different than Hi sec. Same with the hi sec gankers... just a bunch of Carebears who dont have the balls for real pvp and think they are a thing because they do pvp in a pvp ship vs a venture.

Low sec is where the true pvp exsists.

I say we (all of null and high sec) meet up down in low sec and get it on.

Lets see who shows up.... bets?


lol "real PvP".

Whenever someone says that the EVE playerbase is mature or intelligent ...
... I just have to point out people like you or the OP to prove them otherwise.

I can explain it to you, not that it would help anything.

PvP means Player vs. Player. If we remove the context of a game, it's "Human vs. Human".
It does not matter if any one party wants to participate or is sleeping,
it is still Human vs. Human, as both parties are humans ... just like players in the game.

This means that, when you say "real PvP", you show that you are not smart enough
to survive even a single day in the real world without a supermarket
and the knowledge that there is a police out there to (maybe) protect you.
(actually they're not, but that's besides the point)

When "real PvP" hits you IRL, it's more like "suicide ganking" and not
the illusionary idea you have of what "PvP" is.

So you can cry, whine, pretend to be a hardboy all you want about how it's not "real PvP"
and how the guy who holds a knife to your throat is not "a real PvPer",
seconds before he kills you to prove you wrong.

Just like in the game.



Keep going!
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#137 - 2015-04-02 11:41:36 UTC
Why do care if null sec will burn in hell? Let it be. It was way to long where all those major coalitions became fat and lazy at here warm and calm null HQ's.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
#138 - 2015-04-02 15:11:00 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:

LOL.. the futile attempts to be funny. I hope your trying to be funny,


nope


Sgt Ocker wrote:

if not you are seriously uninformed or have just never lived in a sov nul alliance.
"An Alliance" will only need to hold their own sov if they don't have thousands of allies.


just back from over 3 years in null but you'd know that if your finger was on the pulse, but it's not is it.
so how can anyone take you serious, you're just not arsed anymore. sure you even admit to have not been in a fleet for over a year. so you're more than a little out of touch there buddy Blink

Sgt Ocker wrote:

I can understand the new players not knowing how sov works and how it will continue to work post June but your character has been around a few years. You seem to favour tagging along with blok members, although you don't belong to a sov group and somehow believe these changes are going to remove the tens of thousands of allies that monopolize sov nul.


a few years,, hahahaha feck off troll, 7 years out of 11 isn't a few and stop assuming you know what i agree with or not.

Sgt Ocker wrote:


Oh and multi quoting makes it hard to respond to your drivel, lets just say. People thought a couple thousand supers was a problem, wait till it's thousands entosis links. Nothing changes but the ship type, the ability to field infinate numbers is far more feasible than fielding the same amount of supers. AND THE BLOKS WILL STILL DOMINATE SOV, funnily enough, just as they do now.


how is it hard to respond to more than one quote? lol feckin hell you people do my **** in,, go play the game and stfu or unsub the rest of your 10 accounts and feck off.
you find it hard to respond to more than one quote but you have no problem running 10 accounts. Roll
which you expect us to believe that you paid for in cash. Roll
multiboxers are the back bone of EVE,, don't you remember saying this not so long ago.
aren't you down to 2 accounts now. not long to go before we don't see you around anymore.
or maybe you'll just HTFU and get on with it. EVE changes all the time. move with the change or die.

oh,,, and have a nice day Big smile
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#139 - 2015-04-02 16:09:27 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:

- remembering to take drugs.


Hey, whatever you have to do to make the experience bearable!

EVE IS DYING.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
Jade Krendraven
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#140 - 2015-04-02 20:46:11 UTC
The amount of hyperbole and bittervet in this thread is just staggering.

Some of you really need to find a new hobby.