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The Shrinking Sandbox - Eve by numbers

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Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#81 - 2015-03-31 14:22:53 UTC
Anyhow...

Thank you for this thread. It's a nice time waster
and certainly exposes how degraded people have become.

And it's not going to lead anywhere, of course,
because that's not the point of the thread anyway.
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#82 - 2015-03-31 15:02:05 UTC
Eve Solecist wrote:
Raises the question how people who complain about this
actually started the game and if they simply live out their issues with this crap.

The noob/vet difference is always brought up,
but there is not a single shred of evidence that it matters in the big picture.

Because if it did, the game wouldn't have survived 11 years.

Anytime someone comes up with this,
he seems to only talk about his own issues.


The problem I see is people with that kind of vision were then hired to join and man the mothership. I'm not saying they are bad but many seem to have their vision and nothing else just like most people posting complaints on the forum.
tasman devil
Puritans
#83 - 2015-03-31 15:46:07 UTC
For anyone interested in numbers, I welcome you to check them out at:

http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility

Set the filter for 'ALL' and then read what you want out of those numbers.
They are not sexy!

I don't belive in reincarnation I've never believed in it in my previous lives either...
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#84 - 2015-03-31 16:01:33 UTC
tasman devil wrote:
For anyone interested in numbers, I welcome you to check them out at:

http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility

Set the filter for 'ALL' and then read what you want out of those numbers.
They are not sexy!


Nor do they mean anything lol.
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#85 - 2015-03-31 16:40:31 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
tasman devil wrote:
For anyone interested in numbers, I welcome you to check them out at:

http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility

Set the filter for 'ALL' and then read what you want out of those numbers.
They are not sexy!


Nor do they mean anything lol.

It would certainly help people if they actually understood what they are looking at,
instead of just looking at numbers and thinking they know what they mean.

Like ... how the daily PCU only shows that there is a specific TZ
during which most people are online. It does not, in any way or form,
tell us if the amount of people playing during different TZs in/decreased.

When the time comes and governments forbid stupid people to speak ...
... it might not actually be such a bad time after all.

  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#86 - 2015-03-31 17:07:17 UTC
Eve Solecist wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
tasman devil wrote:
For anyone interested in numbers, I welcome you to check them out at:

http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility

Set the filter for 'ALL' and then read what you want out of those numbers.
They are not sexy!


Nor do they mean anything lol.

It would certainly help people if they actually understood what they are looking at,
instead of just looking at numbers and thinking they know what they mean.

Like ... how the daily PCU only shows that there is a specific TZ
during which most people are online. It does not, in any way or form,
tell us if the amount of people playing during different TZs in/decreased.

When the time comes and governments forbid stupid people to speak ...
... it might not actually be such a bad time after all.




Banning stupid people from speaking might also reduce tl,dr reflex occurrence.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#87 - 2015-03-31 17:16:33 UTC
tasman devil wrote:
For anyone interested in numbers, I welcome you to check them out at:

http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility

Set the filter for 'ALL' and then read what you want out of those numbers.
They are not sexy!



You do know that numbers online to not equal number of accounts right?

4 years ago i took a year off when my wife had my son, but my three accounts were paid for for the full year.

With unlimited skill queue and other such things people who get bored can plug in a year of skills, and go play soemthing else. People who use eve-offline numbers as proof that the subs are down are dumb. It CAN mean that, but most likly not.

Also if you look at the last 6 month update form CCP they were merely down 2.5k subs compaired to the first 6 months in 2013.

They have not released the YTD numbers yet, and are holding off till aug. Which means maybe they did take a huge dip. But i don't think so.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#88 - 2015-03-31 17:31:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Eve Solecist
DaReaper wrote:
tasman devil wrote:
For anyone interested in numbers, I welcome you to check them out at:

http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility

Set the filter for 'ALL' and then read what you want out of those numbers.
They are not sexy!



You do know that numbers online to not equal number of accounts right?

4 years ago i took a year off when my wife had my son, but my three accounts were paid for for the full year.

With unlimited skill queue and other such things people who get bored can plug in a year of skills, and go play soemthing else.
Exactly.

CCP realised that people not playing is still a good thing,
because that's how EVE ONLINE as a platform works.

It turns out that "numbers playing" is actually less relevant than "numbers participating".
Of course wouldn't it look good to drop to 10k, but that's not what's going to happen.

So, while you are not playing you have paid for a full year. That means that you are still
participating on the EVE ONLINE platform, no matter how it looks.

What matters, is:


a) You will come back into the game!
b) You might be using the plattform in a different way.


Imagine a launcher which doesn't tell us "34.254 players logged in" ...
... but "154.998 players connected with EVE ONLINE" (as a platform).


This number comes from every single active player within the EVE ONLINE plattform.

EVE, DUST, everyone active on the forums,
everyone currently using the webui (active, ongoing mail conversations?) ...
... people active on sites or via tools which use CREST, the SSO ...

... and whatever else I can not think of.



*sighs* I can only dream ...
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Talvorian Dex
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#89 - 2015-03-31 20:04:39 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
CCP Falcon, I would be really interested to hear whether your perspective of the new and improved "Eve by numbers" has changed your "opinion" as quoted above.


Nope Big smile



There's no better way to respond to a wall of text than a one-word answer.

*sighs and salutes the master*

Writer of Target Caller, an Eve Online PvP blog, at http://targetcaller.blogspot.com
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#90 - 2015-03-31 20:09:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Eve Solecist
(don't stonerpost.) xD
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2015-03-31 21:02:58 UTC
DaReaper wrote:


With unlimited skill queue and other such things people who get bored can plug in a year of skills, and go play soemthing else. People who use eve-offline numbers as proof that the subs are down are dumb. It CAN mean that, but most likly not.

Also if you look at the last 6 month update form CCP they were merely down 2.5k subs compaired to the first 6 months in 2013.

They have not released the YTD numbers yet, and are holding off till aug. Which means maybe they did take a huge dip. But i don't think so.

Unlimited skill queue has an effect, personally I'm less active during the week since the change only logging in for some announced fleets. My queue is set for the next 4 months.

I'm my own NPC alt.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#92 - 2015-03-31 23:05:45 UTC
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Kaldi Tsukaya wrote:
NPE should include a mandatory 'tour of duty' in Faction Warfare. Welcome to combat 1.1 (1.0 is shooting at red crosses).
Learn to fight, and learn to die. Many times, preferably.

In fact, any NPC corp character should automatically be in Faction Warfare. Don't like the heat? Then find solace in the rookie systems. Otherwise man up or join a corp. Or you can stay NPC and be a persistent target for your faction's enemies. No more 'free pass' for NPC neutrals (you are all spais anywayBlink)

That would happen, only, if CCP's goal was to reduce new player retention.
It is low enough now, forcing 2 day old toons into combat with 1 to 5 year veterans is really going to encourage them to stay, don't you think?


It encouraged me and thousands of other newbies the last two years. Now we have the second largest alliance in EvE. Look again at the presentation that Rise gave. The numbers show that player retention is way higher when players get their ships blown up early in their carreer.
No it didn't Eve has never had that type of thing in place.
Can you post those numbers for me?
Personally anything Rise and CO have to say has no credibility. "Metrics", like all forms of statistics can be made to show what you want them to. If in fact player retention is so high and getting killed in the 1st few days of your eve career is so wonderful, why have online numbers dropped so much over the last 12 months. 12 months ago average online was 30k, now it is 26k. My main TZ has gone from 26k to around 16k.Take out those running multiple accounts, the numbers are even worse.

Had you been set to red to 1/4 of Eve on your 1st day in eve and died over and over, I don't think you would have stayed. I don't think anyone would stay under those conditions and who could blame them? A 1 month old character moving in to a blob alliance is fairly safe and as long as they buy plex or have a benefactor can survive.

Yes some with less than 1 million SP will make it in blob fleets but then not everyone wants to belong to the second largest Alliance in Eve. In fact for many, it is the last thing they want. You also need to take into consideration, Brave is very different to what it was 2 years ago. A 1 month old character joining Brave now, would be pushing it uphill all the way.
Not everyone wants to spend years training up characters to sit in blob fleets.

There used to be far more to Eve than which coalition you belonged to.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#93 - 2015-03-31 23:07:18 UTC
Talvorian Dex wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
CCP Falcon, I would be really interested to hear whether your perspective of the new and improved "Eve by numbers" has changed your "opinion" as quoted above.


Nope Big smile



There's no better way to respond to a wall of text than a one-word answer.

*sighs and salutes the master*

Just shows, Devs can troll too.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#94 - 2015-03-31 23:27:10 UTC
Eve Solecist wrote:
DaReaper wrote:
tasman devil wrote:
For anyone interested in numbers, I welcome you to check them out at:

http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility

Set the filter for 'ALL' and then read what you want out of those numbers.
They are not sexy!



You do know that numbers online to not equal number of accounts right?

4 years ago i took a year off when my wife had my son, but my three accounts were paid for for the full year.

With unlimited skill queue and other such things people who get bored can plug in a year of skills, and go play soemthing else.
Exactly.

CCP realised that people not playing is still a good thing,
because that's how EVE ONLINE as a platform works.

It turns out that "numbers playing" is actually less relevant than "numbers participating".
Of course wouldn't it look good to drop to 10k, but that's not what's going to happen.

So, while you are not playing you have paid for a full year. That means that you are still
participating on the EVE ONLINE platform, no matter how it looks.

What matters, is:


a) You will come back into the game!
b) You might be using the plattform in a different way.


Imagine a launcher which doesn't tell us "34.254 players logged in" ...
... but "154.998 players connected with EVE ONLINE" (as a platform).


This number comes from every single active player within the EVE ONLINE plattform.

EVE, DUST, everyone active on the forums,
everyone currently using the webui (active, ongoing mail conversations?) ...
... people active on sites or via tools which use CREST, the SSO ...

... and whatever else I can not think of.



*sighs* I can only dream ...

How good would that be?
154k active subscriptions, is still only 15k individual players online (maybe less).
Good for CCP, not so good for those actually looking for in game content.

I don't think CCP actually knows how many active individual players there are and adding all the different parts like Crest and forum use together only confuses any real attempt to get the number.

EveOffline regularly updates player statistics, only problem is, it too can't tell how many of the 30k active players are alts.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
ashley Eoner
#95 - 2015-03-31 23:48:22 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
Kaldi Tsukaya wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Kaldi Tsukaya wrote:
... I would prefer the 1-man corps to all the NPC corp characters we have now. It is a start...
Set all the major NPC corps to red, the newbie ones to orange and go on a suicide ganking spree with the whole of Low Sec. P


Seriously, a member of the Faction Warfare corps (ie State Protectorate for instance) should be able to do that without Concord intervention (or a security hit) if the target is in the opposing state's NPC corps. Security ratings of an enemy system make that progressively more difficult, and rookie systems are off limits in all Empires.

It certainly would be welcome in the Faction Warfare communitySmile

In light of the topic, think of it as a sandbox at your school. Now your sandbox is full of kids from the other schools...

Of course it would be. Why fight people that have a chance at beating you when you can just go club 10 minute old seals?

I'm pretty convinced you want to kill this game and as such have decided that the first step is stopping new players from joining,.


Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
... flood of 1 man corps ...
CEO gets the assets dropped in station with them and ISK to wallet then the corp auto disbands if 5 different IPs don't log in every 5 days. Pirate

It would take me all of maybe 20 minutes to log 5 different IPs into the game. From the same machine even...

It's amazing to me how clueless people can be while thinking they are clever.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#96 - 2015-04-01 00:16:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
ashley Eoner wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
CEO gets the assets dropped in station with them and ISK to wallet then the corp auto disbands if 5 different IPs don't log in every 5 days. Pirate
It would take me all of maybe 20 minutes to log 5 different IPs into the game. From the same machine even...
It's amazing to me how clueless people can be while thinking they are clever.
I am using Pirate as a troll icon.
It is amazing to me how people lack basic comprehension skills. P
Tipa Riot wrote:
DaReaper wrote:
With unlimited skill queue and other such things people who get bored can plug in a year of skills, and go play soemthing else. People who use eve-offline numbers as proof that the subs are down are dumb. It CAN mean that, but most likly not.
Also if you look at the last 6 month update form CCP they were merely down 2.5k subs compaired to the first 6 months in 2013.
They have not released the YTD numbers yet, and are holding off till aug. Which means maybe they did take a huge dip. But i don't think so.
Unlimited skill queue has an effect, personally I'm less active during the week since the change only logging in for some announced fleets. My queue is set for the next 4 months.
I wish more tourists were like you are. Blink

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Kaldi Tsukaya
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
Citizen's Star Republic
#97 - 2015-04-01 00:21:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaldi Tsukaya
ashley Eoner wrote:
Kaldi Tsukaya wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Kaldi Tsukaya wrote:
... I would prefer the 1-man corps to all the NPC corp characters we have now. It is a start...
Set all the major NPC corps to red, the newbie ones to orange and go on a suicide ganking spree with the whole of Low Sec. P


Seriously, a member of the Faction Warfare corps (ie State Protectorate for instance) should be able to do that without Concord intervention (or a security hit) if the target is in the opposing state's NPC corps. Security ratings of an enemy system make that progressively more difficult, and rookie systems are off limits in all Empires.

It certainly would be welcome in the Faction Warfare communitySmile

In light of the topic, think of it as a sandbox at your school. Now your sandbox is full of kids from the other schools...

Of course it would be. Why fight people that have a chance at beating you when you can just go club 10 minute old seals?

I'm pretty convinced you want to kill this game and as such have decided that the first step is stopping new players from joining,.



I think you misinterpret what is being said.

I am all for sticking up for the newbros (and my posting history verifies this). What I am suggesting is that newbros, as part of the NPE, get to be a part of the battles that happen every day in FW. At an early point in time they have virtually nothing to lose. No creds, no assets, no reputation to hold them back from going head-first-full-tilt PvP. Eve should make your heart pound and your hands sweaty! This is what I think is needed for new players, now more than ever.

Fear is what holds people back. And the longer you go without diving into the pool, the less likely you will ever learn to swim. Risk aversion is what we learn in game, as our assets grow and our mistrust increases. A newbro should just dive in and go shoot people. Have fun and learn to accept losing some stuff, cause you can get those FW frigates cheap.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#98 - 2015-04-01 00:42:20 UTC
Kaldi Tsukaya wrote:
I think you misinterpret what is being said.

I am all for sticking up for the newbros (and my posting history verifies this). What I am suggesting is that newbros, as part of the NPE, get to be a part of the battles that happen every day in FW. At an early point in time they have virtually nothing to lose. No creds, no assets, no reputation to hold them back from going head-first-full-tilt PvP. Eve should make your heart pound and your hands sweaty! This is what I think is needed for new players, now more than ever.

Fear is what holds people back. And the longer you go without diving into the pool, the less likely you will ever learn to swim. Risk aversion is what we learn in game, as our assets grow and our mistrust increases. A newbro should just dive in and go shoot people. Have fun and learn to accept losing some stuff, cause you can get those FW frigates cheap.

I don't understand the reasoning here. Maybe new players as they come in now have something I lacked, but I was completely unprepared for PvP for quite a while. My stint in RvB to see if PvP was of any interest to me was cut short from being killed often too fast to even understand what I was doing wrong. That didn't make me more accustomed to PvP or adapt to it, but rather draw away from it because the only thing my experience emphasized was my lack of competence in it.

I had the benefit of some established assets and isk earning ability which made the T1 frig losses inconsequential as well as an understanding that PvP of that nature wasn't all the game had to offer. I'm skeptical of an actual new players ability to survive the same without support.
Lady Zarrina
New Eden Browncoats
#99 - 2015-04-01 01:07:34 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:

- - - - - - - - -
New player experience - 3 sons of friends recently started playing (within the last 30 days). None told me they were giving Eve a try but decided after a couple of days, they had to or just give up. Their words - What the hell do I do now, most of this tutorial stuff just makes no sense. Without input from experienced players (not the trolls in rookie chat) all 3 would have quit within the 1st week..


I must admit I have not tried the latest version of the New Player Experience, but Eve is not for everyone. So are you saying the New player Experience needs to be improved, or we need Eve to become WoW and drag them by the nose and point them to a dungeon raid? I don't know these 3 people, but if they came from any MMO developed in the last few years, they probably have no idea what a sandbox is. Basically, do these people need to be told how to have fun? Most developers assume you do.

EVE: All about Flying Frisky and Making Iskie
ashley Eoner
#100 - 2015-04-01 01:08:12 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Kaldi Tsukaya wrote:
I think you misinterpret what is being said.

I am all for sticking up for the newbros (and my posting history verifies this). What I am suggesting is that newbros, as part of the NPE, get to be a part of the battles that happen every day in FW. At an early point in time they have virtually nothing to lose. No creds, no assets, no reputation to hold them back from going head-first-full-tilt PvP. Eve should make your heart pound and your hands sweaty! This is what I think is needed for new players, now more than ever.

Fear is what holds people back. And the longer you go without diving into the pool, the less likely you will ever learn to swim. Risk aversion is what we learn in game, as our assets grow and our mistrust increases. A newbro should just dive in and go shoot people. Have fun and learn to accept losing some stuff, cause you can get those FW frigates cheap.

I don't understand the reasoning here. Maybe new players as they come in now have something I lacked, but I was completely unprepared for PvP for quite a while. My stint in RvB to see if PvP was of any interest to me was cut short from being killed often too fast to even understand what I was doing wrong. That didn't make me more accustomed to PvP or adapt to it, but rather draw away from it because the only thing my experience emphasized was my lack of competence in it.

I had the benefit of some established assets and isk earning ability which made the T1 frig losses inconsequential as well as an understanding that PvP of that nature wasn't all the game had to offer. I'm skeptical of an actual new players ability to survive the same without support.

The issue is he doesn't have a clue anymore what it was like to first start playing eve. He's got this romanticized outlook that never really existed. Sure a small percentage might like it but the vast majority will need time to figure stuff out.


Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
CEO gets the assets dropped in station with them and ISK to wallet then the corp auto disbands if 5 different IPs don't log in every 5 days. Pirate
It would take me all of maybe 20 minutes to log 5 different IPs into the game. From the same machine even...
It's amazing to me how clueless people can be while thinking they are clever.
I am using Pirate as a troll icon.
It is amazing to me how people lack basic comprehension skills. P
So one single smiling emoticon like you're happy at the idea was supposed to tell me that you're being sarcastic? Why bother posting anything at all then? Reading has nothing to do with an emoticon. What I did read was deadpanned serious in text form.