Player Features and Ideas Discussion

There is question just popped in my head this morning, If you are planning to give the ability to deploy gates in high sec what are your plans for its HP ? We don't expect couple of afk oracles will down it in easily....right ?

I am sorry that was a little unclear - The first part was directed to your comment directly above and then I got a little off the track...

I talked about the range control you have if you can influence the warp speed, and then draw some weird transition to afk cloaking

Concerning the Uni Rules:
"IVY members are permitted in non-NPC nullsec for PVP. Exempted from this is everything not PVP related (eg. Exploration, Mining, Ratting) which isn't allowed under any circumstances. Students may do escalations that take them into sov null. Students should not take part in any structure or sovereignty battles"

But except for the presentation of my argument I would stick with it:
A cloaker can d-scan and watch local - someone in a pos can do that too. And someone in a station can't be probed down and since you can't enter the station as an intruder you also don't really know where the people are.
Of course all these things are a little different and not exactly the same but I think you really can compare them.

And you may be frustrated that you can't find cloaked players, but the constantly wardecced Uni is also not happy about the fact that we can't force people out of stations...
It may feel unfair and there is some truth in it, but you need some safe zones in a online game. And amog them are stations, POSes and cloaking at a safespot.
And in null POSes and stations are the safe zones of the defenders and cloaking is the safety of the intruder.
Nerfing the cloak doesn't make the game better or in any way more fair.

On the topic of local i think it should only be available for sov holders and postive standing members. There can be maybe specific fleet ships that would be required to provide roaming parties with this intel or scan module with spin up time like a cargo scanner.

Also needs a sort, there is a big advantage to your name being at the bottom of the list, i.e my hot-dropping toon that starts with a Z. Make it have the options of the overview and list on a 'time appearance in local' order.

No, I dont not believe you have thought this through as deeply as you could. By given a clear advantage to the home fleets you are certain to get peeps to put more on the line be it mining fleets or ratting fleets, that rorqual pilot who thinks he has a few extra seconds to pick up that last can, etc. The common assumption will be that you can not see them, so when you turn up in a ship with the module, you immeditaely have the advantage.

Ok, so let's determine what is required for a hostile to engage such a fleet.

Do they need a similar module to find them, or will they get a heads up that an active detection system is present, because of the energy being dumped across the system to detect and identify all the pilots?
(The energy for an active detection system often being detectable by any compatible sensors, the AWACs like system you described should show up like a cyno beacon)

I could see something like that, but in the interests of protecting the friendly fleet, it should never be so close to them that by finding it, you find them as well.

The idea of anchor able gates in any sec status is interesting.

An idea I like is a random one way gate. its a small gate that takes 2 minutes to setup. and when you jump you don't know where you will end up.

Player owned gates can be made so there is an entry gate and exit gate. if you want to travel 2 directions you have to have a gate of each type at each location. Also if gates are used in high sec maybe make them only used for moving structures or if they are used maybe make the jump fatigue really high so that the wait between uses for industrial and freighters is pretty long. And also maybe in high sec have some concord thing that makes them show up on overview as a warp to object when you get in system.


Maybe different size gates for different purposes.

Make a XL gate that takes a jump freighter to deploy .( Low or null sec only gate.)
Make a Large sized gates that have less range and ship capacity can be hauled in an industrial. (Maybe one way gates)
small gate that can be carried in a frigate that jumps you to a random system within range. (this would be pretty cool this would have like a 2ly range.)

Better IMO to have the character that actually wants to make use of the gate be the one to take the hit though. Alternatively have whatever penalty or timer is applied be done on hacking or using a hacked gate you wouldn't otherwise have permissions for.

In general I'm a fan of risks applying to the pilots that deserve them, rather than letting people hide behind an alt where possible.



Ah, then yes things have changed. As I said, last time I was around the Uni had a strict "no Sov Null" policy unless you ended up there by accident or asked permission from a director first. Either way that isn't really relevant to this discussion. If people don't want to fight there's not much you can do in any part of space except deny them whatever they would prefer to be doing.

Anyways, something of a moot point for the wider discussion.

If you have a POS deployed then you have an asset that is at least at some level of risk. If it's not your space then it's at significant risk, albeit after a few timers expire. It's also rather hard to jump a POS through a gate and move it to the next system.

Anyone not using a cloak out in space shows up on D-Scan, so the argument of not being able to tell if someone is in a station or not is moot, except when a cloak is involved. Also in High, Low, and NPC Null anyone can use the stations so it's not hard to confirm someone's location. Plus you can always just throw a bubble up on the station undock in Null and wait.

Believe me, I'm well aware of the 'fun' of Station Games, but CCP also took steps to mitigate those as well with the timers rework. Also someone in a station is still less threat than someone cloaked up in space AFK since they gain no intel beyond the local list and the people in the station.

My argument is simply that being cloaked, especially while AFK, should not be completely safe. You're in space, you have a distinct set of advantages over every other "safe" area in the game, and there is no amount of counter play that can be leveraged against you unless you do something phenomenally "drake full of BPOs through Rancer" stupid, you engage the enemy and get out-played, or you get nailed in the ~1 second after decloaking on a gate where the average cloaky is in any way vulnerable.

IMO, having some degree of counter-play available against cloaked ships does make the game better. It removes a distinctly imbalanced dynamic and opens up more gameplay options.

Also, small point of order. It's not "cloaked at a safe-spot" it's pretty much cloaked up period. I fly cloaky ships, I flew them in Uni back when you needed a certification for it, and I know what I'm doing around them. They're 100% safe on-grid unless you're close to a major travel lane or someone watches you cloak up and you're dumb enough not to move. Other than that, you have a higher chance of a meteor hitting you on the head than being decloaked, even by someone who knows you're on-grid and is looking for you.

I'm not coming at this from the perspective of some bitter person who thinks cloaks are completely unfair and need to be removed from the game. I've spent a lot of time in my cloaky ships (and accrued a few embarrassing loss mails because I did something I knew was stupid but wanted to see if it would work anyway) and I just don't care for the dynamic they create, where if I'm in a cloaky ship I'm basically immune to the enemy, but can still do things and have an impact without any risk to myself. That doesn't feel like Eve to me, that feels like World of Warcraft on a PvE server.

Intelligence gathering.
I’d love the ability to link up to an OA in one system and be able to activate a Directional scan from a second OA either in system or in another system. A basic 360 scan with variable ranges or just a fixed one.

I’d require the link up take place within 2km to break any cloaks.

The owner of the OA, just activates the module/service on the OA selecting the remote OA.

An attacker could capture the remote OA and access the network gaining access to the same data. Or the attacker can disable the service. To prevent it, the owner would need to prevent the capture or severe the remotes OA access to the network. To recover the ability they would need to recapture the OA.

The mechanical rules of the game and NPC behaviour do not define security, safety or risk in a player-driven-PvP-sandbox.

For one, the fact that NPC police shoot criminals in hi-sec is *snip* Killboards/mails are not allowed to be linked in this forum. ~ ISD Decoy proven to provide little protection and many even question its ability to even act as a deterrent.

Your attackers arent disguised in a mass of static/false positives in null sec. Yeah, its safer for ratting.

NPC station:
pros:
- 100% safe
- local intel
- station services
- undocking invulnerability
cons
- if people dock they can see you/ know where you are
- immobile

POSes:
pros:
- 100% safe at least for the reinforcement time
- local intel and d-scan intel
- fitting services
cons:
- can be seen on d-scan / people know where you are
- vulnerable to a larger fleet
- immobile

Outpost:
pros:
- 100% safe at least for the reinforcement time
- local intel
- station services
- people don't know where you are as they can't access the station - you could be cloaked right behind them
- undocking invulnerability
cons:
- vulnerable to larger fleets
- immobile

CovertOpsCloak:
pros:
- very mobile
- 100% safe at a safespot
- 99.9% safe on grid with other player
- 80% safe jumping through gates
- access to local and d-scan
- people don't know where you are
cons:
- no fitting service without decloaking/ mobile depot. Limited Cargo.
- paper thin tank (besides the stratios maybe)
- targeting delay after decloaking (except for stealth bombers)
- recloaking delay
- uses up a highslot

Standard Cloak:
pros:
- somewhat mobile
- 100% safe at a safespot
- 60% safe jumping through gates/ on grid with other players
- access to local and d-scan

- people can see you when you are warping so they know if you are on grid or not - but somewhat unclear were you are

cons:
- really slow with activated cloak
- reduced scan res
- targeting delay
- recloaking delay
- uses up a highslot
- have to decloak before warp
- no fitting service without decloaking/ mobile depot. Limited Cargo

Of course it is not the exact same - but there are pros and cons (and I probably forgot a lot for everything). But this doesn't mean it is not balanced. Everything has its use.