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Intergalactic Summit

 
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Intaki Liberation

Author
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#21 - 2015-03-25 17:28:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Deitra Vess
If they wanted freedom from the federation, wouldn't an Intaki fire the first shots? Yes there's the ILF but why would they need an outside force to inspire them? If they do need an outside force to motivate and lead them, do they really deserve the end goal? I guess I don't know why your sturring the pot when you don't seem to have any link to them aside from idealism...
Tristan Valentina
Moira.
#22 - 2015-03-25 17:55:26 UTC
Of all the people who need freeing in new eden the intake are probably last on the list.

Tristan
Astera Zandraki
Out of Focus
Odin's Call
#23 - 2015-03-25 18:10:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Astera Zandraki
I always find it kinda funny when people claim that other people are 'under the thumb' of the Federation..
Wendrika Hydreiga
#24 - 2015-03-25 18:18:08 UTC
Just here to throw the obligatory "the Federation must be destroyed" shenenigans! Yup!
Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#25 - 2015-03-25 18:49:46 UTC
Wendrika Hydreiga wrote:
Just here to throw the obligatory "the Federation must be destroyed" shenenigans! Yup!

That's Kims's job....

I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.

Vechtor
Doomheim
#26 - 2015-03-25 20:17:34 UTC
Dailar Toralen wrote:
I am here today to make a declaration. The Intaki must be freed from the grasp of the Gallente Federation. While I am a Deiteis fighting for the Amarrian Empire (at least for now), I know there are many Intaki who wish to be fully liberated. For example, Mordu's Legion, the Syndicate, and the Capsuleer Organization known as the Intaki Liberation Force. The Intaki people should be free. Us Caldari know the hardships of the Intaki better then anyone. We were once forced to bow to the Federation. They call the Empire immoral, but they do the same to the Intaki, and formerly to the Caldari.


I'm afraid you got something wrong.
Intaki are not slaves. They are free people. They are not oppressed by the Federation. ILF/IPI complaints are with regard to the Federation giving them "less importance than what they deserve". They think their identity should be emphasized and preserved which I think it’s quite reasonable too, but no one ever said the Federation enslave them... so why he "freed" proposition?

To tell you the truth Intaki experience so much more freedom than most people that the Intaki itself decided to live under a 0.1 security status so they could enhance commerce with the Syndicate. It is true that this attracts piracy. Also true those parts such as ILF/IPI tries very hard to fight this piracy. Still, economic freedom has never been an issue with regard to the Federation...

I disagree with you. I'm an Intaki. I don't think the Intaki should be free from the Gallente because the Federation does not enslave them.
Aedre Lafisques
Nadire Security Consultants
Federation Peacekeepers
#27 - 2015-03-25 20:58:24 UTC
Before I start with my position in this matter, I would like to inquire which corporation within the GMVA it was that fired on the ILF recently. I cannot speak for the GMVA as a whole, but as a member of a founding corporation, this issue is of interest to us, and a matter that may bear internal discussion. This last year have brought about a significant number of changes both within the ILF and within the Accords, so to assume diplomacy is an inert thing is to ignore progress and potential failures at once. Please let me know here or via NeoCom and I will escalate if they are still with us. To be clear, there are no formal agreements yet in place, but that is not necessarily where diplomacy starts.


But with regards to Intaki's situation as it stands:

Intaki's liberation is a good deal more complicated than "Us" letting them be "Free". In fact, if we were to cut them loose tomorrow, we would be under significant fire for the subsequent fallout.

Can we roll out a program that might eventually allow Intaki to operate with increased autonomy within the Federal systems? I think this is not an impossible ideal for people keen on seeing Intaki's situation to improve, and is not even unheard of.

Before anything else, however - CONCORD must raise Intaki's sec status. This was promised to them, and as a founding member of the Federation, anything else is an embarrassment. I think you will find no one in contest with this. If there is any one thing to campaign government and CONCORD for as a first step - or by contrast, your last step - it is this, now that the vote has been returned this year, correcting one shame among many.

Secondarily, full autonomy for any subsection of any of our smaller units, be it a Family, Clan, Corporation or Intaki and its peoples, is to doom them to the fate of who ever decides to roll into their system next. Full autonomy is not possible for any cultural or organizational group at this time within the Four Empires.

Among the cries to Free Intaki, which has been reduced to a manipulative buzzword you can find on t-shirts, I do not hear many practical plans for what to do with Intaki once it is "free". To think it would be any freer under Caldari control by comparison to me shows a misunderstanding of the way either of our Empires work. There is a reason that Intaki feels so resolutely neutral when they could call on the Nationalistic might of either side if they so chose. They have not chosen, and in so doing are exercising their dissatisfaction with our offers.

The continuing strength of the Intaki people not to call on the Empires they could leverage, but instead choosing to forge their own path in the face of adversity speaks leagues about how much moral bolstering they require. The Intaki are strong, Capsuleer and baseliner government alike, and the help they require is squarely in the Federation's hands regarding technical matters, which I agree and implore should be back on the table for re-evaluation. It should not stop with the return of the vote, which was - as far as I'm concerned - an illegal breach of policy in the first place.

Especially now with the Drifter threat distracting every resource available to Empire security, what can be done? The suffering of any people does not stop because we are at some further risk. Where are the most extra available resources? It's us. Who is investigating the sleeper threat? It's us, with money, time, and lives to burn.

What every Capsuleer can do today, tomorrow, is stop when passing through Intaki and its sister systems, and sweep it of the rats and wanted Capsuleers that plague the constellation due to its unfortunate CONCORD assignment. This is a fully plausible action that legal Capsuleers can actively participate in, for the improvement of, if not its security on paper, the security and prosperity of the people who live there. The ILF and the IPI work diligently to create a viable market hub in this area. Stop there, buy equipment, chase out the pirates, and it won't matter that CONCORD won't step in. This is something every one of us can do. --Including the less than legal types among us, to be honest.

If you feel that Intaki has been wronged, as a Loyalist, as a Caldari, as a third party, as a pirate; then help Intaki prosper, help it be safe. We in low-sec do not need CONCORD's motherly protection. The people who live here are not waiting for CONCORD to arrive. The raising of Intaki's status is ultimately symbolic, and fundamentally important historically, but not the reality. Intaki needs trade and security. All us Capsuleers do is 'trade' and 'security'.
Dailar Toralen
Toralen Industries
#28 - 2015-03-25 22:10:12 UTC
Aedre Lafisques wrote:
Before I start with my position in this matter, I would like to inquire which corporation within the GMVA it was that fired on the ILF recently. I cannot speak for the GMVA as a whole, but as a member of a founding corporation, this issue is of interest to us, and a matter that may bear internal discussion. This last year have brought about a significant number of changes both within the ILF and within the Accords, so to assume diplomacy is an inert thing is to ignore progress and potential failures at once. Please let me know here or via NeoCom and I will escalate if they are still with us. To be clear, there are no formal agreements yet in place, but that is not necessarily where diplomacy starts.


But with regards to Intaki's situation as it stands:

Intaki's liberation is a good deal more complicated than "Us" letting them be "Free". In fact, if we were to cut them loose tomorrow, we would be under significant fire for the subsequent fallout.

Can we roll out a program that might eventually allow Intaki to operate with increased autonomy within the Federal systems? I think this is not an impossible ideal for people keen on seeing Intaki's situation to improve, and is not even unheard of.

Before anything else, however - CONCORD must raise Intaki's sec status. This was promised to them, and as a founding member of the Federation, anything else is an embarrassment. I think you will find no one in contest with this. If there is any one thing to campaign government and CONCORD for as a first step - or by contrast, your last step - it is this, now that the vote has been returned this year, correcting one shame among many.

Secondarily, full autonomy for any subsection of any of our smaller units, be it a Family, Clan, Corporation or Intaki and its peoples, is to doom them to the fate of who ever decides to roll into their system next. Full autonomy is not possible for any cultural or organizational group at this time within the Four Empires.

Among the cries to Free Intaki, which has been reduced to a manipulative buzzword you can find on t-shirts, I do not hear many practical plans for what to do with Intaki once it is "free". To think it would be any freer under Caldari control by comparison to me shows a misunderstanding of the way either of our Empires work. There is a reason that Intaki feels so resolutely neutral when they could call on the Nationalistic might of either side if they so chose. They have not chosen, and in so doing are exercising their dissatisfaction with our offers.

The continuing strength of the Intaki people not to call on the Empires they could leverage, but instead choosing to forge their own path in the face of adversity speaks leagues about how much moral bolstering they require. The Intaki are strong, Capsuleer and baseliner government alike, and the help they require is squarely in the Federation's hands regarding technical matters, which I agree and implore should be back on the table for re-evaluation. It should not stop with the return of the vote, which was - as far as I'm concerned - an illegal breach of policy in the first place.

Especially now with the Drifter threat distracting every resource available to Empire security, what can be done? The suffering of any people does not stop because we are at some further risk. Where are the most extra available resources? It's us. Who is investigating the sleeper threat? It's us, with money, time, and lives to burn.

What every Capsuleer can do today, tomorrow, is stop when passing through Intaki and its sister systems, and sweep it of the rats and wanted Capsuleers that plague the constellation due to its unfortunate CONCORD assignment. This is a fully plausible action that legal Capsuleers can actively participate in, for the improvement of, if not its security on paper, the security and prosperity of the people who live there. The ILF and the IPI work diligently to create a viable market hub in this area. Stop there, buy equipment, chase out the pirates, and it won't matter that CONCORD won't step in. This is something every one of us can do. --Including the less than legal types among us, to be honest.

If you feel that Intaki has been wronged, as a Loyalist, as a Caldari, as a third party, as a pirate; then help Intaki prosper, help it be safe. We in low-sec do not need CONCORD's motherly protection. The people who live here are not waiting for CONCORD to arrive. The raising of Intaki's status is ultimately symbolic, and fundamentally important historically, but not the reality. Intaki needs trade and security. All us Capsuleers do is 'trade' and 'security'.


This could be agreeble, but it will still not solve the Intaki's oppresion by the Federation. The Intaki people are daily punished, forced to fight the Federations War, and financially oppressed by the greater Federation. Thousands of Intaki are leaving the Federation daily to fight for Mordu's Legion, to join the Syndicate, or to serve under the Caldari Flag. My proposition only included the Caldari State as a stepping stool to allow the Intaki people to move higher, not join the State under force. The Intaki people are oppresed in much the same way as the Caldari were, and it must end.

We are Toralen Industries. It doesn't matter if you fight for money, idealogies, or because it's what you are good at and it doesn't matter if you fight threw trade, combat, or diplomacy. No matter what or how you fight, there's a place for you.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#29 - 2015-03-25 22:18:41 UTC
Do not think to join the State to preserve your way of life - it is of no value to us. We're having enough problems with the Achuran question without having another completely different culture trying to integrate while remaining separate.

If the Intaki were to achieve independence on their own terms then we would likely be interested in you as an Ally or trading partner, but membership in the State really suggests a desire to integrate into our society and I doubt the Intaki wish that.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Dailar Toralen
Toralen Industries
#30 - 2015-03-25 23:03:32 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Do not think to join the State to preserve your way of life - it is of no value to us. We're having enough problems with the Achuran question without having another completely different culture trying to integrate while remaining separate.

If the Intaki were to achieve independence on their own terms then we would likely be interested in you as an Ally or trading partner, but membership in the State really suggests a desire to integrate into our society and I doubt the Intaki wish that.



I never spoke of entering the State, in fact I never quite specified the two's involvement. I meant more as a pair of Allies, with the State helping to protect Intaki Assets, help to move there society, and overall help them become a force to be reckoned with.

We are Toralen Industries. It doesn't matter if you fight for money, idealogies, or because it's what you are good at and it doesn't matter if you fight threw trade, combat, or diplomacy. No matter what or how you fight, there's a place for you.

Jukko Riis
Doomheim
#31 - 2015-03-25 23:18:21 UTC
Vechtor wrote:

I'm afraid you got something wrong.
Intaki are not slaves. They are free people. They are not oppressed by the Federation. ILF/IPI complaints are with regard to the Federation giving them "less importance than what they deserve". They think their identity should be emphasized and preserved which I think it’s quite reasonable too, but no one ever said the Federation enslave them... so why he "freed" proposition?

To tell you the truth Intaki experience so much more freedom than most people that the Intaki itself decided to live under a 0.1 security status so they could enhance commerce with the Syndicate. It is true that this attracts piracy. Also true those parts such as ILF/IPI tries very hard to fight this piracy. Still, economic freedom has never been an issue with regard to the Federation...

I disagree with you. I'm an Intaki. I don't think the Intaki should be free from the Gallente because the Federation does not enslave them.




Make the glass ceiling so low that a person can't rise through his or her own capabilities and you have slavery in all but the word. That's what I've seen on Intaki. That's what was offered to the colonies of Black Rise by the Federation occupation. That's what they offer for Caldari Prime.

The Federation definition of "freedom" is lip-service to keep a very small network in control. Anything that challenges that control gets wiped out. Look at the last election. Look at Black Rise. Look at Reschard! If the Federation can't have the pretty toy, then they try to break it so no one else can.

If the greater portion of Intaki are happy under the Federation, then why indeed did they choose a low sec rating? Again, why the ties with the Syndicate, the State, the Legion and pretty much anyone that isn't the Federation?

I have to agree that full entry into the State might not be the best move. But then, there are more corporations than Ishukone in the State that are capable of offering assistance to protect a politically free, neutral Intaki.

Dailar Toralen
Toralen Industries
#32 - 2015-03-25 23:25:13 UTC
Jukko Riis wrote:
Vechtor wrote:

I'm afraid you got something wrong.
Intaki are not slaves. They are free people. They are not oppressed by the Federation. ILF/IPI complaints are with regard to the Federation giving them "less importance than what they deserve". They think their identity should be emphasized and preserved which I think it’s quite reasonable too, but no one ever said the Federation enslave them... so why he "freed" proposition?

To tell you the truth Intaki experience so much more freedom than most people that the Intaki itself decided to live under a 0.1 security status so they could enhance commerce with the Syndicate. It is true that this attracts piracy. Also true those parts such as ILF/IPI tries very hard to fight this piracy. Still, economic freedom has never been an issue with regard to the Federation...

I disagree with you. I'm an Intaki. I don't think the Intaki should be free from the Gallente because the Federation does not enslave them.




Make the glass ceiling so low that a person can't rise through his or her own capabilities and you have slavery in all but the word. That's what I've seen on Intaki. That's what was offered to the colonies of Black Rise by the Federation occupation. That's what they offer for Caldari Prime.

The Federation definition of "freedom" is lip-service to keep a very small network in control. Anything that challenges that control gets wiped out. Look at the last election. Look at Black Rise. Look at Reschard! If the Federation can't have the pretty toy, then they try to break it so no one else can.

If the greater portion of Intaki are happy under the Federation, then why indeed did they choose a low sec rating? Again, why the ties with the Syndicate, the State, the Legion and pretty much anyone that isn't the Federation?

I have to agree that full entry into the State might not be the best move. But then, there are more corporations than Ishukone in the State that are capable of offering assistance to protect a politically free, neutral Intaki.



Thank you. This is what I meant. The Intaki don't want to be part of the Federation, they just need the Federation to sustain them because the Gallenteans have forced them into that position. The State could help pick up the Intaki, or the Syndicate, or whomever the Intaki choose! They need to know there is people willing to help the Intaki break-away. But the Federation hides this. They control the news (Scope). They let people know what they want them to know so that the Federation can continue its illusion of freedom. Freedom doesn't exist in EVE, not unless you fight for it.

We are Toralen Industries. It doesn't matter if you fight for money, idealogies, or because it's what you are good at and it doesn't matter if you fight threw trade, combat, or diplomacy. No matter what or how you fight, there's a place for you.

Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#33 - 2015-03-25 23:31:02 UTC
Dailar Toralen wrote:
The Intaki people are daily punished, forced to fight the Federations War, and financially oppressed by the greater Federation.

I don't recall any laws being passed that require the Intaki people to engage in the war.

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.

Aedre Lafisques
Nadire Security Consultants
Federation Peacekeepers
#34 - 2015-03-25 23:42:00 UTC
I would caution against this becoming conspiracy. I would also caution against bringing up the talking point of the "last election" when the ruling was lifted for this election. Inadequate progress is still progress.

There is nothing to hide here. Everyone is quite aware of the injustice served to Intaki and the means to which they have gone to secure themselves; that is to say, aligning themselves with pirate factions.

Intaki finds itself at a crossroads of legality. This doesn't help the citizens there. None of this does. And certainly, in this turmoil of the last few months, they are not about to discover any traction towards lofty ideals.

Serpentis uses them and they use connection within Serpentis. I'm not unaware of that, but as you can imagine that only further complicates the 'freeing' of Intaki. I return to the bulk of my point. In the coming months and years, Intaki's strongest light lies in Capsuleer hands. We can make their situation less extreme.

Does this help Serpentis? In all likelyhood. Does this irk me? Of course. The only way to dissuade the status quo in that area however is to act on it. I genuinely believe that Intaki is working for the benefit of its people as a group maligned. Once they can shake off pirate intervention, they will.
Astera Zandraki
Out of Focus
Odin's Call
#35 - 2015-03-25 23:44:14 UTC
Dailar Toralen wrote:


This could be agreeble, but it will still not solve the Intaki's oppresion by the Federation. The Intaki people are daily punished, forced to fight the Federations War, and financially oppressed by the greater Federation. Thousands of Intaki are leaving the Federation daily to fight for Mordu's Legion, to join the Syndicate, or to serve under the Caldari Flag. My proposition only included the Caldari State as a stepping stool to allow the Intaki people to move higher, not join the State under force. The Intaki people are oppresed in much the same way as the Caldari were, and it must end.


Show your work?

I'm Intaki, I don't feel punished, I don't feel oppressed, I'm not forced to fight in any war.

I believe in freedom of speech, assembly, religion, sexuality and many others.

Tell me, what kind of positive or negative freedoms would I gain, as an Intaki, from being 'liberated' by the State or any other entity?
Bourbon Limoges
Doomheim
#36 - 2015-03-25 23:49:50 UTC
Claudia Osyn wrote:
Dailar Toralen wrote:
The Intaki people are daily punished, forced to fight the Federations War, and financially oppressed by the greater Federation.

I don't recall any laws being passed that require the Intaki people to engage in the war.


You don't even have to sign up for a couple of liberal artiste planetary community craft units to get out of non compulsory non enlistment - and there is always the indifferent objector with unspecified scruples form.

Perhaps the Intaki should all just fill out the indifferent objector with unspecified scruples form, absolving themselves of more or less all pertinent responsibilities. They'll just hang a big old Zed dot Zed sign up on the star gates and... wait, isn't that actually the situation?

Is it possible to be less "oppressed" than Zed dot Zed with no possibility of some "****" claiming sovereignty over you?
Thea Isotalo
Doomheim
#37 - 2015-03-26 00:18:36 UTC
Claudia Osyn wrote:

I don't recall any laws being passed that require the Intaki people to engage in the war.



There weren't any laws in my first colony that said I had to be a part of the war. But when the Fed ships landed, we were in the war.



Dailar Toralen
Toralen Industries
#38 - 2015-03-26 01:13:38 UTC
The Gallente Federation forces the Intaki to fight threw putting there homeworld in the warzone. They deliberately placed the Intaki System within the warzone. The least they could do is move a larger protective fleet to the Intaki System.

We are Toralen Industries. It doesn't matter if you fight for money, idealogies, or because it's what you are good at and it doesn't matter if you fight threw trade, combat, or diplomacy. No matter what or how you fight, there's a place for you.

Noden Vorpalstar
The Knights of Polaris
#39 - 2015-03-26 01:29:59 UTC
Dailar Toralen wrote:
I am here today to make a declaration.


Isn't everyone?

Dailar Toralen wrote:
The Intaki must be freed from the grasp of the Gallente Federation........... I know there are many Intaki who wish to be fully liberated.


Freed from "the GRASP!" he says, of that wicked Gallentean Federation, which prides itself on such abhorrent things like individual liberty!

They must be "liberated!" from our slimy touches.

Dailar Toralen wrote:
They call the Empire immoral, but they do the same to the Intaki, and formerly to the Caldari.


Where o' where did I leave my Intaki servants last night? I swear when I find them their punishment will be harsh, off to the secret Black Eagle asteroid mining camps with them!

Public Channel:  Polaris-Public Roleplaying Channel:  Gallente Lounge

Gwen Ikiryo
Alexylva Paradox
#40 - 2015-03-26 01:32:11 UTC
There are certainly a lot of people in this thread deciding what the Intaki feel for them.

A couple of reminders that everyone should have heard a thousand times by now -

1. It was the Intaki local governments decision to have their space unprotected by CONCORD to begin with, in order to preserve a degree of indepdence. Though the situation has changed considerably with the onset of the war and many likely desire this to change, I would hesitate to blame the Federation entirely for the state of affairs.

2. The State was the party that largely determined the backdrop of the war, since it invaded through black rise on the orders of Tibus Heth. (If it wasn't for that, the Federation would be unaware the region even existed.) So blaming the Federation for it's inclusion in the warzone seems rather trite, to me.