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Rorqual - I missed the fanfest stream.

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Kiddoomer
The Red Sequence
#281 - 2015-03-21 09:33:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Kiddoomer
It was during the first 2015 Fanfest day, when someone asked a question to the present devs. Can't remember the time though, but I would say at the end of the Keynote, so roughly between 17h and 18h.

In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”
Phill Alutan
Doomheim
#282 - 2015-03-22 08:59:48 UTC
+1 for Tau's proposal

It was so boring to sleep in a POS shield while others were having fun in belts.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#283 - 2015-03-22 15:53:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Phill Alutan wrote:
+1 for Tau's proposal

It was so boring to sleep in a POS shield while others were having fun in belts.

Thanks.

CCP Fozzie answering a question at Fanfest gave me an idea...
https://youtu.be/r99GHzSoCOo?t=44m37s
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#284 - 2015-03-23 05:17:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Arronicus
The BlackPrince wrote:
CCP didn't really give us anything specific on this subject. They mentioned that they were aware that the rorqual would need some changes because of the changes made in the summer expansion, but that's about it.

Oh and they mentioned something about making it so that we would want to warp it to a belt.


CCP said in march 2014 that they are rebalancing the rorqual and are going to make it desirable to have it in the belt. It is now almost april 2015, and despite hundreds of pages of discussion, and dozens of ideas being presented, they appear to have 0 plan what to do with them.

My money is on them transferring mining links to the new drilling platform, and then just declaring the rorqual to be a (useless) ore hauler/compressor/link giver for anyone without the structures to do those tasks.

Many of us WANT the rorqual to be useful, we WANT it to be desirable in the belt, just in its current state, and with things changing the way they are, it absolutely is not. Perfect ore compression at a POS was a huge blow to the ship, as was the jump range nerf, but ultimately, the problems come down to 2 things, the unforgivingly long siege cycle time, and the lack of any benefit to having the rorq in the belt, and considering that rats already dont present any threat to current hulk fleets, additional defensive bonuses seem useless at best.
Zifrian
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#285 - 2015-03-23 11:56:47 UTC
Phill Alutan wrote:
+1 for Tau's proposal

It was so boring to sleep in a POS shield while others were having fun in belts.

Taus proposal is pretty good. There are some things that I think are a bit too powerful but the general idea is there - make a Rorq pilot more active. Right now they are just for afk alts in the pos shield.

The jump portal idea and immunity to ew (assume a dictor wth point script still works though) are perfect. It makes the rorq pilot an essential part of a mining fleet and also someone that could get everyone killed if they go afk. Plus it ups the juiciness for Pvp roams since mining fleets (assuming on grid boosting only) will be much larger.

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Zhul Chembull
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#286 - 2015-03-23 21:25:11 UTC
Just give it capital strip miners. This whole complicated force shield POS thing is ludicrous. EW war immunity is a good idea. And yes I have driven one for years.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#287 - 2015-03-24 00:06:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Zifrian wrote:
Taus proposal is pretty good. There are some things that I think are a bit too powerful but the general idea is there - make a Rorq pilot more active.

When you dream, dream big. It costs the same Blink

I tried to be reasonable though, and considered if a major alliance adopted a Rorqual doctrine.

CCP Fozzie's suggestions at Fanfest 2015 were horrible, and far more overpowered.

Zhul Chembull wrote:
Just give it capital strip miners.

Because miners want to be paid less for ore & minerals they mine?

The closest I think to that is reasonable is to make the Rorqual a mobile drilling platform, i.e. replacing the new structure.
Balthasar Dorian
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#288 - 2015-03-24 21:49:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Balthasar Dorian
Unless a Rorq can insta-pop an entire asteroid field then I can't imagine what role could be so important that you would risk a 2+ bil isk capital ship....

The Rorq as a mobile moon mining ship with crazy defenses.....perhaps Blink
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#289 - 2015-03-25 17:46:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Rowells
Quarterly reminder that the industrial core needs to be burned at the stake

And I shall elaborate:

Currently most ideas surrounding making the Rorqual useful involve changes to the industrial core. People attempt t answer the question,"how do we make a Rorqual useful and worthwhile to siege in a belt?"

I think this in itself shows that the current bigges problem is the existence of the industrial core. It creates a binary decision between two of the primary uses of the Rorqual (compression and links), and being locked in place for 5 minutes. With the value of compression already being availible in a POS this makes the industrial core even less worth the time.

I suggest the industrial core's full removal or complete seperation of the bonuses currently applied fro it, and replaced with something more worthwhile. The separation of link bonuses and compression from the core means it can actively participate in belt operations similar to how an Orca can.

Replacing the bonuses for the industrial core would be optimal, but in a worst case, it needs to be removed entirley from the ship as a necessity.
Phill Alutan
Doomheim
#290 - 2015-03-25 17:58:33 UTC
Balthasar Dorian wrote:
Unless a Rorq can insta-pop an entire asteroid field then I can't imagine what role could be so important that you would risk a 2+ bil isk capital ship....

The Rorq as a mobile moon mining ship with crazy defenses.....perhaps Blink


A Rorqual is not much more costly to get out of a POS than a ratting carrier and much much less than a ratting/complex supercarrier for example.

The problem is that there is not much for a Rorqual to do in the belts that can't be done inside a POS force field (except tracting at huge range and the cargo, but an Orca is enough to haul)
Balthasar Dorian
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#291 - 2015-03-25 18:39:24 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Zifrian wrote:
Taus proposal is pretty good. There are some things that I think are a bit too powerful but the general idea is there - make a Rorq pilot more active.

When you dream, dream big. It costs the same Blink

I tried to be reasonable though, and considered if a major alliance adopted a Rorqual doctrine.

CCP Fozzie's suggestions at Fanfest 2015 were horrible, and far more overpowered.

Zhul Chembull wrote:
Just give it capital strip miners.

Because miners want to be paid less for ore & minerals they mine?

The closest I think to that is reasonable is to make the Rorqual a mobile drilling platform, i.e. replacing the new structure.


The Rorq wouldn't take over their role entirely. Mining barges and exhumers should get a big boost to alignment speed. It's already pretty annoying that a 200+ mil isk hulk has to start aligning when the enemy is 2 jumps out but some ratting cruisers can align almost as fast as a frigate even after slowing down from 1000 m/s....
Koniforous
Tauren Transit
#292 - 2015-03-26 17:30:34 UTC
I'd bet they transform the rorq into a mobile pos/carrier crossover. Land in belt, activate the core. The core would form a 4th hp bar for the rorq, and a pos shield bubble that the mining fleet can safely mine from and warp out of in case of danger. I imagine they'll give it the ability to command a fighters and bombers from this mobile pos state, as well as anchor some sort of new deployable like temporary sentry guns used on pos'. Looking at its bonuses, this is clearly what it was designed to be, it is only lacking the pos shield mechanic. MOBILE MINING PLATFORM FOR REAL. DO IT.

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Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#293 - 2015-03-26 18:31:48 UTC
The tl;dr is... you missed nothing.

No changes announced. They want to make it worth using sometime Soon(tm).

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
whiskeybreath
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#294 - 2015-03-30 08:40:02 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
350125GO wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
the buffs that would make it worth putting a rorqual in a belt would need to be insane


They'd be more likely to change it's role than to give it buffs.

tell me the role that involves putting a 2b capital ship in a belt that is not insane





Call me stupid, but I have actually ratted in my rorq once ).... Although, it was in a deep null dead end pocket, and I had eyes up the pipe..
Marox Calendale
Xynodyne
The Initiative.
#295 - 2015-03-30 09:15:53 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Zifrian wrote:
Taus proposal is pretty good. There are some things that I think are a bit too powerful but the general idea is there - make a Rorq pilot more active.

When you dream, dream big. It costs the same Blink

I tried to be reasonable though, and considered if a major alliance adopted a Rorqual doctrine.

CCP Fozzie's suggestions at Fanfest 2015 were horrible, and far more overpowered.

Zhul Chembull wrote:
Just give it capital strip miners.

Because miners want to be paid less for ore & minerals they mine?

The closest I think to that is reasonable is to make the Rorqual a mobile drilling platform, i.e. replacing the new structure.

It depends on how much yield the roqual would have. The ability to use capital strip miners doesn´t automatically mean that it has almost a capital yield. Look at the other pages in this thread and you can see that most people want it to have a yield close to a full boosted hulk. Not more.
So in fact it would be just one more miner per fleet. That wouldn´t decrease mineral prices in a great manner.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#296 - 2015-03-30 17:42:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Marox Calendale wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Zhul Chembull wrote:
Just give it capital strip miners.

Because miners want to be paid less for ore & minerals they mine?

It depends on how much yield the roqual would have. The ability to use capital strip miners doesn´t automatically mean that it has almost a capital yield. Look at the other pages in this thread and you can see that most people want it to have a yield close to a full boosted hulk. Not more.
So in fact it would be just one more miner per fleet. That wouldn´t decrease mineral prices in a great manner.

There have been many suggestions of a Capital Strip Miner that harvests an entire asteroid per cycle.

There really isn't any consensus on what is reasonable, beyond CCP once stating that nothing should mine more than a Hulk.

Then there is the issue of art, and hardpoints, as there must be at least two to avoid mining through the model.

Hence I recommended a LARGE mining drone bonus, that more naturally fits in with the existing drone bonus. Heavy Mining Drones, or even a Capital Mining Drone, are also probably reasonable suggestions too. Of course drones have an issue of transit time.
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#297 - 2015-03-30 23:12:05 UTC
truth be told,

that was a quick "blow off" comment on what he mentioned about the rorqual, he's not a rorqual pilot and therefore im positive they'll keep her off their working list as long as possible.. all because they do not have a clue of what to do with her.


the rorqual days are coming to an end.. once a few pop while in the field.. her history is going by the wayside for "gud fights".

she's dead in the water.

next thing they'll come up with is how the rorqual will interact with the entosis link (yikes)

she's dead.. she's gone.. sell yours right now for 1 isk.
Kiddoomer
The Red Sequence
#298 - 2015-03-31 09:43:17 UTC
Milla Goodpussy wrote:


she's dead.. she's gone.. sell yours right now for 1 isk.



If you're selling yours at this price => GIVE IT TO ME NAO.

In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
#299 - 2015-03-31 11:26:52 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Zifrian wrote:
Taus proposal is pretty good. There are some things that I think are a bit too powerful but the general idea is there - make a Rorq pilot more active.

When you dream, dream big. It costs the same Blink

I tried to be reasonable though, and considered if a major alliance adopted a Rorqual doctrine.

CCP Fozzie's suggestions at Fanfest 2015 were horrible, and far more overpowered.

Zhul Chembull wrote:
Just give it capital strip miners.

Because miners want to be paid less for ore & minerals they mine?

The closest I think to that is reasonable is to make the Rorqual a mobile drilling platform, i.e. replacing the new structure.


I agree that the Rorqual should not be able to fit capital strip miners as that would potentially decrease ore prices which are potentially going to fall anyway after the null sec ore changes.

I do like your suggestion for the Rorqual to replace the mobile drilling platform idea as an additional bonus/role. It would have to be available to use in high sec as well then though if the new larger rock deposits are to spawn in all four areas (Low, null, WH, & high sec systems.).

" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. " Rick. " Find out what ? " Abraham. " They're screwing with the wrong people. " Rick. Season four.   ' The Walking Dead. ' .
Webster Carr
Carr Consolidated Corporation
#300 - 2015-03-31 19:40:44 UTC
After watching the Structures presentation on you-tube I have to say I was really impressed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hen92QFrDUo&list=PLQvKSs1k6DLOiGGb44McruXcndTtzUUlu&index=36

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/back-into-the-structure/


I especially liked the idea for streamlining the deployment, operation, and configuring of structures. You fit the structure like a ship and deploy into space. A structure has service slots, these determine what type of services the structure can offer, assembly array, reprocessing, etc. (With certain structures getting bonuses to certain services.) Fuel is consumed by use of it's services not by just existing. Nice, intuitive, and understandable game play.


Quote:

D. Drilling platforms

Focused on resource harvesting as a whole.

Service module possibilities: Reprocessing, moon harvesting, reactions, mining, gas harvesting. We also are considering new harvesting gameplay mechanics. We could for instance have pollution gas clouds form around drilling structures that see high activity, or seed small planetoids in specific asteroid belts and scanable sites which require a drilling platform to break it down in smaller harvestable rocks.
Rigs possibilities: Anything that improves reprocessing, moon harvesting, reaction, tractor beam range effectiveness.



This part of the Dev Blog Sparked an idea: Why not allow the Rorqual some Service slots and bonuses similar to a Drilling platform, essentially turning it into a mobile Drilling Platform. (It would be immobile when deployed but possibly use the same 'reinforcement' mechanics as structures giving a reason to park a several billion isk ship in an asteroid belt.)

This idea of containing structure slots could be extended to other capital ships as well. (Anyone ever read the Star Wars novels with the smuggler Booster Terrik who captured an imperial star destroyer and turned it into a mobile smuggler's marketplace?)

Just an Idea,
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