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Can't believe Off Grid Boosting is still around. Srsly?

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Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2015-03-09 08:14:57 UTC
Fade Azura wrote:
Off grid boosting has already been dealt with .... the nerf to unprobeable t3's and command ships unable to give links within a POS.

everything anyone can do with links can be countered

if they make a hard to probe down t3 it can still be probed down and killed
if they are boosting next to a station or a pos shields .. some tornado's warping in can alpha shot it or force it off

and last but not least you can always bring the same links and use same tactics as they are if you cant do either of the above

if you are unable or unwilling to take the above steps to match your enemy .. then honestly your not on the same level and don't deserve to win that fight.

but anyways this has been discussed to death many times and nothing is going to change anytime soon so stop complaining and go blow some stuff up ... its a lot more constructive then whining on the forums about things that are easily countered or matched.



So you're saying I should just man up and spend $100 on PLEX to buy a booster alt. Can I just spend $500 for a frigate sized CONCORD deathray? Is this an EA game? And nobody cares about links in gangs it's FW 1v1 action that gets broken by OGB.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2015-03-09 08:17:20 UTC
Alice Saki wrote:
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
Alice Saki wrote:
Budda Kuha wrote:
Alice Saki wrote:
Small Gang NEED Offgb to be effective against larger Targets.


Small gangs shouldn't be effective against much larger gangs when brawling! They should be forced to use tactical wit instead of bluntly boosting their stats from off grid to make it look as if they accomplish something heroic. Besides: The larger the gang the higher the probability that they have a dedicated booster aswell. The whole ogb is necessary for small vs larger gang argument is null. More often than not ogb's are used by risk averse players to gain an advantage on top of their superior numbers.



Rephrase.


Small SHIELD NANO GANGS NEED OFFGB to be effective againt larger targets.

The Alliance I just left, We used to fly to Goons home system Stir the Hornets nest with our 10 to 30 man gang

and Get Swarmed by up too 900 goonies xD

Without the Skirmish links providing Off Grid Boosting we'd all die in seconds.



Ummm dont you think 10-30 ships SHOULD DIE IN SECONDS to 900 ships?? Lol

The fact that 10-30 can last more than seconds against such odds is proof it is unlabanced.

And again, if you or anyone is agruing and saying OGB is good/should stay. You r wrong. Ccp said u are wrong. They just cant figure out how to code it, they want yo change it though just cant



Only if you get caught, thats the Magic of OGB ;)


You're telling me a 900 man nullsec blob can't log a virtue prober alt and kill or force you to turn off links with 2 minutes?
Madd Adda
#63 - 2015-03-09 08:23:36 UTC
Wouldn't nerfing OGB hinder mining foreman links too? I don't see the reasoning for getting rid of all OGB in that case. If it were only warfare links to get nerfed then i can get behind that, just don't ruin it for links that don't have any impact on pvp.

Carebear extraordinaire
Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#64 - 2015-03-09 08:26:13 UTC
Madd Adda wrote:
Wouldn't nerfing OGB hinder mining foreman links too? I don't see the reasoning for getting rid of all OGB in that case. If it were only warfare links to get nerfed then i can get behind that, just don't ruin it for links that don't have any impact on pvp.

There is no need for off-grid mining links either. Interaction, where all involved players can at least see each other is good for the game.
Madd Adda
#65 - 2015-03-09 08:37:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Madd Adda
Godfrey Silvarna wrote:
Madd Adda wrote:
Wouldn't nerfing OGB hinder mining foreman links too? I don't see the reasoning for getting rid of all OGB in that case. If it were only warfare links to get nerfed then i can get behind that, just don't ruin it for links that don't have any impact on pvp.

There is no need for off-grid mining links either. Interaction, where all involved players can at least see each other is good for the game.


how is seeing one another "interaction"? I often don't mine in the same asteroid belt as a boosting orca /barges just so I don't interfere with what they're mining. Why penalize all of us for those that are abusing the warfare links?

Carebear extraordinaire
jurgen b
Papal Zouaves
#66 - 2015-03-09 12:14:47 UTC  |  Edited by: jurgen b
Madd Adda wrote:
Wouldn't nerfing OGB hinder mining foreman links too? I don't see the reasoning for getting rid of all OGB in that case. If it were only warfare links to get nerfed then i can get behind that, just don't ruin it for links that don't have any impact on pvp.



but but.....it's magic and it belongs in a game named WoW Bear where raids have buffs to pop more magic and wizzard stuff
and it is bad for the idd for the 1V1 promoting in novice plexes idd.
it's all magic eve boosts from a station from orca's is pure magic eve on grid it's magic Lol boosts that is
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#67 - 2015-03-09 13:26:56 UTC
Lictas Alice wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Lictas Alice wrote:
If it was only solo players vs larger gangs using links , i wouldn't mind. But in my experience , its usually people in faction ships/full set of implants/ with backup/ with links at a 100% safe place( generally FW zones). Or for example in HS , Sit a links boat in a NPC corp get a pretty safe advantage with no risk. It gives people another advantage that can't really be countered , which is why it should be changed.
Logi? Focus them . Ecm? Use eccm Neuts? Cap boosters/nos Links??

Neutral links being on grid in highsec wouldn't affect them in any way whatsoever, they'd still not be legal targets.

If you wanted to change how links are employed in highsec you'd have to mess with crimewatch.

If you really want to open up that particular can of worms again that's fine by me, I mean they did such a great job last time.


I know , i kinda hinted at that a few posts earlier. If they can't implement on grid links , i am pretty sure theres other things they could do. Links on kilmails would be great , all those 'solo' pilots that need links to win would be exposed and probbably stop using them

No they wouldn't because none of them are claiming they are not using links. They are quite happy to even tell you what links they like to run and how they run them.

People use links because they can and so can the enemy so you should expect them to be using them to. We extensively use links because again it would be stupid not too. Just as it stupid not to fit deadspace modules if you have the isk, and to carry drugs. And even use that expensive faction hull. People are not afraid to get a leg up, and be open about it. Almost everyone i know with links things that it should be "on grid" only (but they should probably fix some grid foo stuff as well). But while it is not, there is no good reason not to use them.

CCP have said that in principal only on grid links is what they want, but the code base and programming is too difficult. However that didn't stop them from keeping mining links active inside a POS force field.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.
Alice Saki
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#68 - 2015-03-09 14:29:57 UTC
Imma just put it down to people who can afford to run Link alts and those who can't :)

FREEZE! Drop the LIKES AND WALK AWAY! - Currenly rebuilding gaming machine, I will Return.
Janeway84
Insane's Asylum
#69 - 2015-03-09 14:34:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Janeway84
Maybe CCP can make people with 10-1 kb get worse effects from links while people with crap kb stats gets 200% improvement from links? Big smile

Links need to be in space but im not sure always having links on grid should be a requirement, it would kill off one of the Eve niche areas.
Sir Constantin
#70 - 2015-03-09 14:39:34 UTC
CCP don't care and most of the players have already links so you can't reason with them because they like having a green killboard.

They are saying that learning implants make you not pvp, well, for me is the off-grid boosting.

They could at least tweak the stats to give like 3-5%. I mean, you train for months for extra 3-5% or you need to buy expensive implants but hey, let's train a alt for a month or two and give 30-50% boost.

#altsonline #paytowin
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#71 - 2015-03-09 15:17:19 UTC
Dude we don't do hashtags anymore. Well unless your on twitter or currently 16 and think it is something new.

And if you think its pay to win, then I guess you don't like deadspace mods, of faction hulls, or people that get their **** together and have drugs on hand?

Oh my you must hate people with friends that can always out number you.

Lets be honest you just don't like it when other people kill you. No matter how much you derped.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.
Carmen Electra
AlcoDOTTE
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#72 - 2015-03-09 15:25:09 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
So you're saying I should just man up and spend $100 on PLEX to buy a booster alt.

If you found a booster alt for $100 worth of ISK, you should jump on that stat.

Bacon makes us stronger
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#73 - 2015-03-09 15:32:17 UTC
Sir Constantin wrote:
CCP don't care and most of the players have already links so you can't reason with them because they like having a green killboard.

They are saying that learning implants make you not pvp, well, for me is the off-grid boosting.

They could at least tweak the stats to give like 3-5%. I mean, you train for months for extra 3-5% or you need to buy expensive implants but hey, let's train a alt for a month or two and give 30-50% boost.

#altsonline #paytowin


Would you prefer if I put my boostalt into a falcon instead? Or rather want an odd curse, or should I just get a scimitar? It's called force multiplier for a reason.

Also, boosts range from 18-30% mostly. Get your numbers straight before you complain, or try sitting on both sides.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#74 - 2015-03-09 15:34:31 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
You're telling me a 900 man nullsec blob can't log a virtue prober alt and kill or force you to turn off links with 2 minutes?


A pimped helios for 70mil with a 20mil implant has the required scanstrength already. You don't need virtues for that since 2014.
Budda Kuha
Buster Blade
#75 - 2015-03-09 15:44:25 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Sir Constantin wrote:
CCP don't care and most of the players have already links so you can't reason with them because they like having a green killboard.

They are saying that learning implants make you not pvp, well, for me is the off-grid boosting.

They could at least tweak the stats to give like 3-5%. I mean, you train for months for extra 3-5% or you need to buy expensive implants but hey, let's train a alt for a month or two and give 30-50% boost.

#altsonline #paytowin


Would you prefer if I put my boostalt into a falcon instead? Or rather want an odd curse, or should I just get a scimitar? It's called force multiplier for a reason.

Also, boosts range from 18-30% mostly. Get your numbers straight before you complain, or try sitting on both sides.


To answer your question: Most players who refrain from using an ogb would prefer that. Logis, recons and ecm can be dealt with. Ogb is inherently different since there is almost no risk involved and when in doubt there is no way to be sure if a ship is boosted or not. It's the perfect tool for risk averse pilots who want fun and a "leet kb" at the expense of others. Ultimately that drives non link users away from eve which in the long run is bad for link users aswell. It's a bad mechanic which is bad for the game. Stop defending ogb's already the issue has been settled!

The question remains: What will CCP give us before brain in a box is ready? After years of waiting people are fed up and they deserve a little more than "soon"!
Lictas Alice
Lazer Hawkz
#76 - 2015-03-09 15:59:18 UTC
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
Lictas Alice wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Lictas Alice wrote:
If it was only solo players vs larger gangs using links , i wouldn't mind. But in my experience , its usually people in faction ships/full set of implants/ with backup/ with links at a 100% safe place( generally FW zones). Or for example in HS , Sit a links boat in a NPC corp get a pretty safe advantage with no risk. It gives people another advantage that can't really be countered , which is why it should be changed.
Logi? Focus them . Ecm? Use eccm Neuts? Cap boosters/nos Links??

Neutral links being on grid in highsec wouldn't affect them in any way whatsoever, they'd still not be legal targets.

If you wanted to change how links are employed in highsec you'd have to mess with crimewatch.

If you really want to open up that particular can of worms again that's fine by me, I mean they did such a great job last time.


I know , i kinda hinted at that a few posts earlier. If they can't implement on grid links , i am pretty sure theres other things they could do. Links on kilmails would be great , all those 'solo' pilots that need links to win would be exposed and probbably stop using them

No they wouldn't because none of them are claiming they are not using links. They are quite happy to even tell you what links they like to run and how they run them.

People use links because they can and so can the enemy so you should expect them to be using them to. We extensively use links because again it would be stupid not too. Just as it stupid not to fit deadspace modules if you have the isk, and to carry drugs. And even use that expensive faction hull. People are not afraid to get a leg up, and be open about it. Almost everyone i know with links things that it should be "on grid" only (but they should probably fix some grid foo stuff as well). But while it is not, there is no good reason not to use them.

CCP have said that in principal only on grid links is what they want, but the code base and programming is too difficult. However that didn't stop them from keeping mining links active inside a POS force field.



I agree that just changing links too OGB isn't enough.

Depending on what system your in , it can be incredible hard too tell if someone is using links , before your committed too a fight. You can tell if someone is in a group generally by looking at there killboard , looking at there fits ect. So your kinda right , you should automatically assume people are using links , Another reason not too engage. Just what we need , more factors that make people only fight when they are sure they are going to win.
Sir Constantin
#77 - 2015-03-09 16:18:45 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:


Would you prefer if I put my boostalt into a falcon instead? Or rather want an odd curse, or should I just get a scimitar? It's called force multiplier for a reason.

Also, boosts range from 18-30% mostly. Get your numbers straight before you complain, or try sitting on both sides.



Falcons and and scmis are fine, they have their place in the game.
I just don't like imbalanced mechanics, like dying to a brawling frigate that can kite more than a really good kiting frigate.


Delt0r Garsk wrote:
Dude we don't do hashtags anymore. Well unless your on twitter or currently 16 and think it is something new.

And if you think its pay to win, then I guess you don't like deadspace mods, of faction hulls, or people that get their **** together and have drugs on hand?

Oh my you must hate people with friends that can always out number you.

Lets be honest you just don't like it when other people kill you. No matter how much you derped.


I don't even have a twitter account, i saw people doing this and i was trying to be cool X

Desdspace mods, drugs..

This reasoning is like the one where people put the 3'rd party software like evemon and eft on the same par with multiboxing software like isboxer..
Daerrol
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#78 - 2015-03-09 17:53:59 UTC
I engage ships all the time without second thought to weather they have links or do not have links. I do not own a link character (anymore) but many of my friends do, and have often done pew-dee-pew both with and without links. There are ways to test if a ship has links. Everyone is shouting about risk averse then in the next breath says "I can't get a fight because I don't knwo if the person has links or not!"

You also do not know if they are rocking a deadspace fit rifter with improved drugs and perfect skills. You also don't know if recons are going to declaok. You also don't know if their buddies are logged off on this gate.

I feel like people who whine about Links when they die would just find something new to whine about. Look at what happened to those poor carriers :-(

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Peopel who want a 0 loss 100 kill KB are going to get one. fighter assist, links, drugs, station games, gate camps whatever... Most players don't want a fair fight stop expecting it.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#79 - 2015-03-09 18:16:00 UTC
To fill in some technical detail:

Right now, Links only take effect when:

A: They're turned on/off
B: When someone session changes. (Session changes are big and expensive anyway. Everything gets recalculated for a character)

That's relatively easy to work with, without requiring frequent tests.

Making them grid restricted is substantially more work. Making them ranged is a lot more.

Right now, the Dogma attribute engine is being rewritten, which /may/ (it's been stated as a goal) allow for this to be done in a less expensive fashion, which makes it viable.

Once that's complete, it's a lot more viable to restrict them more than 'in the same system'

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Budda Kuha
Buster Blade
#80 - 2015-03-09 18:54:56 UTC
Daerrol wrote:
I engage ships all the time without second thought to weather they have links or do not have links. I do not own a link character (anymore) but many of my friends do, and have often done pew-dee-pew both with and without links. There are ways to test if a ship has links. Everyone is shouting about risk averse then in the next breath says "I can't get a fight because I don't knwo if the person has links or not!"

You also do not know if they are rocking a deadspace fit rifter with improved drugs and perfect skills. You also don't know if recons are going to declaok. You also don't know if their buddies are logged off on this gate.

I feel like people who whine about Links when they die would just find something new to whine about. Look at what happened to those poor carriers :-(

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Peopel who want a 0 loss 100 kill KB are going to get one. fighter assist, links, drugs, station games, gate camps whatever... Most players don't want a fair fight stop expecting it.


Man, I engage linked gangs all the time. That's not the point. The point is that your viable tactical options against linked enemies are often reduced to not fighting at all or running at time. That's just dumped down pvp since actual piloting skills get diminished by the huge stat boosts links provide -especially when it comes to speed and web range.Have you ever tried to kite a linked gang in an unlinked ship? Since i really don't care about kb stats or isk too much i'll engage anyway but unlinked players who don't happen to be rich just don't have that option. They just won't engage and since fights are not always easy to get that can be very very frustrating. Hence links make solo and small gang pvp for players without links a huge pita. Let a rifter be a rifter (within certain boundaries)! Let there be more action for everyone Pirate