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Can't believe Off Grid Boosting is still around. Srsly?

First post
Author
Budda Kuha
Buster Blade
#81 - 2015-03-09 19:05:15 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
To fill in some technical detail:

Right now, Links only take effect when:

A: They're turned on/off
B: When someone session changes. (Session changes are big and expensive anyway. Everything gets recalculated for a character)

That's relatively easy to work with, without requiring frequent tests.

Making them grid restricted is substantially more work. Making them ranged is a lot more.

Right now, the Dogma attribute engine is being rewritten, which /may/ (it's been stated as a goal) allow for this to be done in a less expensive fashion, which makes it viable.

Once that's complete, it's a lot more viable to restrict them more than 'in the same system'


I get that but don't you think that CCP should give us something until the Dogma rewrite may or may not solve this issue? As others have stated there are quite some ways to do that. Making them show up on kb's would be a good start to reduce ogb cheesyness just a little bit! Tbh I'm not quite sure if CCP understands how frustrating links are for a great many players. I mean this has been going on for years...
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#82 - 2015-03-09 19:18:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Altrue
The end of Off grid boosting will make EVE PvP a bit worse.

What do you think? That EVE Players engage in fights they think the ennemi can win??

EVE Players engage when they think they will win. Off Grid Boosting allows that extra unexpected edge to defeat your opponents in a seemingly unbalanced engagement. Removing it would seriously impair solo PvP.

Besides, both sides can do Off Grid Boosting. There is literally nothing more balanced than that. A perfectly symetrical mecanic.


Go ahead and bring your booster on-grid! Now exposed to a multitude of new threats, you have to dedicate a human player to play it instead of using an alt... Except that boosters are flying bricks, there is literally nothing more boring to fly

Good job, you've just made EVE PVP worse and you've created an extremely boring role, mandatory in every serious fleet.

Really, what a brilliant idea. Roll

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Budda Kuha
Buster Blade
#83 - 2015-03-09 19:28:48 UTC
Altrue wrote:
The end of Off grid boosting will make eve PvP a bit worse.

What do you think? That EVE Players engage in fights they think the ennemi can win??

EVE Players engage when they think they will win. Off Grid Boosting allows that extra unexpected edge to defeat your opponents in a seemingly unbalanced engagement. Removing it would seriously impair solo PvP.

Besides, both sides can do OGB.


Yes, there are many players who don't fight for silly kb stats but for the sake of fighting. These are the type of players that make eve pvp fun for everyone simply because they deliver action for everyone! The end of ogb will make eve pvp a lot better since skill will matter more and those players who won't or CAN'T(!) use links will be a lot more willing to engage.

With ogb CCP caters to the type of player who only engages when he's sure about winning. This is a mistake!

Also: There is no such thing as solo pvp with links.
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#84 - 2015-03-10 03:22:13 UTC
Altrue wrote:
The end of Off grid boosting will make EVE PvP a bit worse.

What do you think? That EVE Players engage in fights they think the ennemi can win??

Really, what a brilliant idea. Roll


I am pretty sure that almost every player who has attacked me thought they could win. I sometimes jump into something hopeless for the fun of it but not most of the time.
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#85 - 2015-03-10 04:13:14 UTC
my $0.02

Off grid boosting is complete and utter rabid bollocks.

Rewards are supposed to come with Risk, there's very little risk involved with a links Tengu fitted to be nigh-on impossible to scan down with probes bouncing between safe spots.

It's a ridiculous mechanic that simply increases the gap between newbies and bittervets. Losing links won't hurt the veteran players one jot seeing as everyone will lose them. The only advantage goes to those who never had access to them in the first place.

All Leadership Skills boosts or link modules should only apply when said booster is on-grid and uncloaked with their fleet.

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This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura

Vazkez
Doomheim
#86 - 2015-03-10 04:38:55 UTC
Off grid boosting should be removed imo.
And yeah, its highly homosexual.
Vazkez
Doomheim
#87 - 2015-03-10 04:39:47 UTC
Mephiztopheleze wrote:
my $0.02

Off grid boosting is complete and utter rabid bollocks.

Rewards are supposed to come with Risk, there's very little risk involved with a links Tengu fitted to be nigh-on impossible to scan down with probes bouncing between safe spots.

It's a ridiculous mechanic that simply increases the gap between newbies and bittervets. Losing links won't hurt the veteran players one jot seeing as everyone will lose them. The only advantage goes to those who never had access to them in the first place.

All Leadership Skills boosts or link modules should only apply when said booster is on-grid and uncloaked with their fleet.


WORD NIGZ
Chewytowel Haklar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#88 - 2015-03-10 04:45:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Chewytowel Haklar
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
I cant believe its this thread again!


My thoughts on 'I cant believe its not butter' have changed a tad though. I just don't know if I can eat a product that doesn't believe in itself. If they really wanted to fix that, they really need to rename it 'you wont believe this isn't butter'. At least then, its on you. Right as it is, the damn tub is having a crisis, and not one person wants to do anything about it.. and its title is calling out for help. Have some self confidence you buttery spread! People buy you all the time, despite the fact that you aren't butter. Don't put thoughts in my head before I even buy you. Would you do that with any other product? I know I sure as hell wouldn't buy 'I cant believe this aint cheese!'. What the ****?!?! Im staying the hell away from that. I may even rearrange the shelves to move that stuff away from the cheeses.. just so the real cheese doesn't get some kind of complex.


I can't believe this ain't balanced! :D

EDIT: Btw I laughed my ass off as I can imagine a disturbed looking person in the cheese section frantically rearranging items and repeating himself over and over "It ain't cheese!"
Scipio Artelius
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2015-03-10 05:05:10 UTC
Mephiztopheleze wrote:
Rewards are supposed to come with Risk, there's very little risk involved with a links Tengu fitted to be nigh-on impossible to scan down with probes bouncing between safe spots.

If they are bouncing between safe spots, there are no active links.

It's worth knowing the mechanics in order to make proper assessments.
Scipio Artelius
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#90 - 2015-03-10 05:08:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Budda Kuha wrote:
I get that but don't you think that CCP should give us something until the Dogma rewrite may or may not solve this issue?

The only thing that needs a solution is the amount of whinging that goes on asking CCP to take responsibility for something that players are fully capable of dealing with themselves, as so many others have.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#91 - 2015-03-10 05:08:58 UTC
No! Nerf all the things I don't like, even if the reason I don't like them is because I don't know how they work!
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#92 - 2015-03-10 05:21:30 UTC
Global tl;dr :

gudfights versus "muh stats"

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Caleb Seremshur
Mortis Angelus
The morgue.
#93 - 2015-03-10 09:14:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Caleb Seremshur
Budda Kuha wrote:
I recently bought this toon and returned to EVE after a break due to rl obligations and I was shocked to see that ogb was not only still around but that it has spread like a desease and infested most of lowsec and nullsec even. Before anyone calls me a whiner let me say this: I have much love for EVE as a game and even though i don't have much time to play it I will probably keep my accounts subbed until tranquility shuts down.I'm not a "pro" and I don't care for kb stats but i do care for good fights which way too often simply get ruined by off grid boosted undercover super ships! Wasn't this supposed to be dealt with a long time ago!? Why do you even bother balancing hulls if you're allowing a condor being turned into a garmur from off grid without any notable risk?!


The arguments for getting rid of this terrible mechanic are well known so I won't enumerate them again but seriously: CCP, get your stuff together! You guys know what a turn off ogb is for half of the pvp community, you know how it caters to a dumped down, tedious, slow and risk-averse playsyle that is literally poison to pvp as a whole! If the dogma rewrite still takes time give us something in the meantime! This bullshit mechanic has been around for way too long and not everybody is enough of an eve fanboy to endure your disregard in that respect.CCP, do something!


It's a conflict of interest for CCP. Long story short OGB alts make them $ and they'd be foolish to remove that.

Quantify their thought process like this: on SISI they allow booster alts to sit on station and therefore be immune to dickery from other players. It's their whole policy right now in a nutshell, don't rock the boat, don't kill the OGB don't collect 200 and whatever you do don't make links modules function like bastion and give weapons timers and don't make them have a minimum activation range of greater than 50km.

Link boats in lowsec: sit at 0 on a gate, as soon as aggressed jump through gate.
Link boat in nullsec, sit at pos.
link boat in highsec: be neutral alt, sit literally anywhere and be immune to everything forever especially if you have a premade safe from a mission run by the main (which can be up to 15au away from a celestial IIRC ergo unscannable).
Ddolik
Bohemian Veterans
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#94 - 2015-03-10 11:10:55 UTC
im with you guyz,
no more offgrid boosting
Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#95 - 2015-03-10 14:37:36 UTC
I love when people say it's fait because both sides can do it. They can only do it if their PC can handle it.

You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT

Mag's
Azn Empire
#96 - 2015-03-10 14:49:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Budda Kuha wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Both fleets in an engagement can use OGB.

I find it difficult to see the 'risk free advantage' here.

Mr Epeen Cool


You're missing the point. Not everybody is willing or able to run a booster. Forcing people to run a second account to compete in small scale or solo pvp is a huge turn off. Furthermore the sheer existance of ogb penalizes players who like fast paced, spontanious and mobile pvp. It caters to risk-averse stationary pvp. For inherent logical reasons that decreases the total number of fights happening which equals to: bad for EVE pvp which equals to: Bad mechanic being bad for EVE. It's really as simple as that. The question remains: Why doesn't CCP take action?
So here's what happens. CCP changes it to on grid and you still fail, because not everyone is willing to use the tools available. Apparently.

So even if CCP change it, you and others like you will still whine.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
#97 - 2015-03-10 15:25:15 UTC  |  Edited by: BoBoZoBo
This is not an issue when both sides can take advantage of the same mechanic. I do not understand the logic not not allowing it other than you are pissed someone was doing i and you were not.

Edit - I will agree they should not be allowed to do so in a POS shield or somewhere they are not exposed to risk. Maybe even increase the sig radius of ships using it to allows for others to scan them down.

Primary Test Subject • SmackTalker Elite

Black Drake
#98 - 2015-03-10 15:55:51 UTC
But wouldn't people just fly their command ships hundreds of km's away from the fight then warp away if someone comes close?
No Class
New Eden Spooks
#99 - 2015-03-10 16:22:20 UTC
What? I trained an alt in the boost skills. Never use them now. What i find more useful is the leadership skills. Guess what? those are off grid boosters also. Are you willing to sacrifice a leadership skill nerf as well as warfare Links?
Budda Kuha
Buster Blade
#100 - 2015-03-10 17:37:29 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Budda Kuha wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Both fleets in an engagement can use OGB.

I find it difficult to see the 'risk free advantage' here.

Mr Epeen Cool


You're missing the point. Not everybody is willing or able to run a booster. Forcing people to run a second account to compete in small scale or solo pvp is a huge turn off. Furthermore the sheer existance of ogb penalizes players who like fast paced, spontanious and mobile pvp. It caters to risk-averse stationary pvp. For inherent logical reasons that decreases the total number of fights happening which equals to: bad for EVE pvp which equals to: Bad mechanic being bad for EVE. It's really as simple as that. The question remains: Why doesn't CCP take action?
So here's what happens. CCP changes it to on grid and you still fail, because not everyone is willing to use the tools available. Apparently.

So even is CCP change it, you and others like you will still whine.


As i said I don't consider myself a pro at all but in my experience the real pros aka the best solo pilots out there dislike links. A lot. Why do you think this is? I'll answer it for you: Because they understand that ogb tendentially turns EVE pvp from a game of skill to a game of alts.

This is also the reason why many pvpers get so touchy when it comes to a potential nerf of their beloved link alts. They know that their feeling of leetnes depends on them. In other words: Since the huge benefits of ogb's come with no disadvantage or notable risk whatsoever and since they don't turn up on kb's they are basically pay to win ego boosters. At the expense of others.