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Completely agree. Null incomes need to be changed. Instead of moons giving isk to the alliance execs to pad their wallets from the top down the isk should be made available to line members and distributed from the bottom up.

If anyone is willing to actually post an uptodate value on those R32s and R64s by the way, just so we know how much income is never seen by the line members of those 40k strong alliances in this poor nullsec that we keep hearing about I'd love to hear it :)

You are vastly oversimplifying how quick this will be. In order to do any of these things, another fleet needs to come back for the second timer and actually win the constellation control node contest for EVERY STRUCTURE they reinforced in the first round. Only then will IHUBs explode, stations freeport, and new TCU's be planted.

So not only was no one home to defensive E-link the initial fleet, no one was home to win the control node contest during the second timer. Both of which take place in the defender's prime time using mechanics that are so advantaged to the defender that it's pretty much "if they show up they'll probably win" (at least, assuming we're still talking about the troll attacker fleets that couldn't hold grid against a few carebears in T1 cruisers). If all this happens to be true, then YES, absolutely, that space shouldn't belong to anyone and praise be the troll fleet that burns it to the ground.

You're not maximizing income and therefore you CAN'T base locally? Really?

I hazarded a guess at 7 trillion/month for just R64s across the whole of nullsec based on data a few years old... completely passively going into alliance pools without any industry indices or ships required in space (aside from a quick blockade runner)

Well allegedly this trolololol fleet is going to carry on indefinitely across every single contestable system even though there's no reward for doing so except briefly lighting the map up with an extra flag for two days. So yeah your guess is as good as mine.

And yes the carrots definitely need to be tasty enough for small groups to persevere :)

The difference is Goons will probably let some scrub alliances take a bit of their space then , like a cat playing with a dying mouse, the fun will begin.



The main problem I have with convuluted ideas like this new sov system and Dominion is that it doesn't take into account the kinds of things people actually do. They seemed to be designed for a 'perfectly reasonable person' (no such person has ever existed) instread of huiman beings.

Big alliances are going to enlist their renters to defend space, offering them reduced rent for successful defense of systems. Big coaltions might hire mercs to patrol their space during prime time so they themselves can go do actual fun things like attack somone else's prime time in force.

I'll be that every single renter alliance is about to have their prime time set to AUTZ or whenver the North American, Euros and Russians aren't around lol.

And if i were a tonfoil hat man, i'd say CCP was doing this because they know this is gonna generate a lot of revenue in the form of new entosis using home defense frig alts lol. Well for a while at least, till everyone figures out that this "FW in null" sov stuff just isn't fun.

And that's the big thing. Sov is about bigger ships (cruisers and up) having bigger fights. I don't know why this kind of low sec small gang crap is desirable in null.

As I thought. Nothing to do what is being said.

And the main problem with leaping to this conclusion is that we haven't seen either a capital rebalance or a PVE rebalance yet. Hell, we don't know where POSes are going either. I'm not saying that people shouldn't be skeptical, only that we only have some of the information.

Personally, the first thing I thought of was the PIZZA guy with something like 20 cloaky alts. And while I tip my hat to your Typhoon fit, which on top of everything else is cheap enough to not look like an attractive target in the first place, it fails the condition imposed by your above-quoted argument: 'perfectly reasonable people' would have adapted in that way, but that isn't who we're dealing with. And anyway, anomalies themselves are about three or four kinds of broken. As you know.

For those looking for CSM feedback: besides Mike and Steve, mynnna is posting in this thread on an alt (hi mynnna! don't be shy!) and Xander Phoena has posted a lengthy reaction on Crossing Zebras.

Hunkering down is not gonna stop your barely-blue neighbors from slipping in and creating a pile of timers in YOUR space. Daily sov harassment will be a defacto thing after this. No blue diplo arrangement is going to prevent it when it is this trivially easy for line members to do.

As far as not provoking fights? Well, only if the people you are fighting don't want their stations/ihubs/tcu's. Otherwise, it's the very definition of provoking fights because they MUST mobilize to counter your fleet. Skirmish roams don't work now because the defender has no reason to undock. You play some station games, whee.... the attacker can't do anything except force a couple of mission runners to dock up.

But NOW if the defenders don't undock, that same roaming cruiser fleet can burn every IHUB, station, and TCU they can find. It's funny that people are focused on the troll fleets, which are trivially countered by brick-tanked E-link defenders flat out ignoring them. Actual fleets of T3's/HACs roaming your space and flipping sov will be what you need to fear, since they can take and hold a grid long enough to do it and then come back and win the control node contests too, and the only defense will be to actually fight them.

The idea that your line members WON'T take out 30 HACs on a whim and start actually reinforcing all your blue neighbors is hilarious. Of COURSE they will, just as soon as they get bored of burning all the dead sov with their trollceptor fleets first (which will quickly become pointless once they start hitting space with people actively living there).

Basically, it's gonna be WH life for null. If you DON'T undock and provide a fight when someone roams your space, the next step is eviction. Defenders no longer have the luxury of turtling up to avoid roaming skirmish fleets, because those fleets can BURN YOUR SOV TO THE GROUND. So you'd better undock and provide a fight.

Sure, there are some people for which this mechanic won't provoke fights. Those people will be gone from null in a week, and all the sov that remains will be held by people willing to undock and fight those roaming subcap fleets.

wouldn't work

we'd find the breakpoints and splinter our holdings enough to reduce the costs appropriately

we wouldn't install actual people as the heads of these organizations either, that would just be silly

any suggestion involving punishment for larger numbers is going to be trivially exploitable by anyone with even trace amounts of gray matter sloshing about in their heads