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Dev blog: Politics by Other Means: Sovereignty Phase Two

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Terence Bogard
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#2261 - 2015-03-05 12:05:35 UTC
Nami Kumamato wrote:
Terence Bogard wrote:


Nothing is set in stone and no, the world is not ending.


It's not ? Shocked
So you mean I bought all that canned pineapple for nothing ?
Time to get diabetes then ...


Sorry hope you bought some canned bacon to go with it Big smile
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2262 - 2015-03-05 12:07:12 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

Well if the idea is to enable occupancy sovereignty, with active, alive, real people living there, they would of course allow the fitting of these modules to spaceships that were able to penetrate gatecamps.


Why? Shouldn't an attacker have to fight through the defenders instead of bypassing them by fiat?

Or are you actually making the contention that unless a single system is guarded 24/7 from interceptors and cov ops frigates, that whoever owns that system is undeserving of it? Because last I checked, this was a game, not a job.

I can't think of a better way to crowd any and all small groups than to force literally constant defense fleets.


I will give some serious thought as to why, you are unable to understand that in a system that is designed to ensure local occupancy and defence, why having inpenetrateable gatecamps 20 jumps out that will ensure that no one gets to the target, and removing the tools that can penetrate them, does not work to achieve those goals.

I will give it deep thought, but it may take a while.............

And I fear the answer will be 42

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Papa Digger
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2263 - 2015-03-05 12:07:30 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Papa Digger wrote:

Why you think that you will be playing only in offence every day? :)


We have the numbers.

Then why I see a half of galaxy not owned by CFC? :) Easy to hit, hard to hold.

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#2264 - 2015-03-05 12:07:44 UTC
Lord TGR wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
I do of course recognise all the other entities that like having fun, you are not the only ones, but if you come to troll and only find a TCU next to a death star who is trolling who?

Will this "deathstar" really make a dent into a speedtanking interceptor?


Well I have seen a fair few interceptors killed by POS guns in my time, but its possible yes.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2265 - 2015-03-05 12:07:45 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

Well if the idea is to enable occupancy sovereignty, with active, alive, real people living there, they would of course allow the fitting of these modules to spaceships that were able to penetrate gatecamps.


single system is guarded 4/7


Fixed that.

And it's not that onerous to chase them off unless they are there in force, but that is not what is being posited.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#2266 - 2015-03-05 12:08:35 UTC
Papa Digger wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Papa Digger wrote:

Why you think that you will be playing only in offence every day? :)


We have the numbers.

Then why I see a half of galaxy not owned by CFC? :) Easy to hit, hard to hold.



Who's talking about holding it? You don't build an apartment building on your game preserve...
Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
#2267 - 2015-03-05 12:09:32 UTC
Arrendis wrote:

We didn't use bombers, for one. :)

But technically you could. For the purpose of griefing you can do SB grinding ops bypassing gatecamps and denying actual fights. With current mechanics a fleet of SBs is as substitude for the idea of a fleet of trollceptors.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2268 - 2015-03-05 12:09:41 UTC
Papa Digger wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Papa Digger wrote:

Why you think that you will be playing only in offence every day? :)


We have the numbers.

Then why I see a half of galaxy not owned by CFC? :) Easy to hit, hard to hold.



We have no need for even more useless space.
Terence Bogard
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#2269 - 2015-03-05 12:10:24 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Terence Bogard wrote:
Arrendis wrote:

But strongly implied by:

'Low fitting requirements, uses high power slot.'

see
CCP Fozzie wrote:

I'll also probably be quickly spinning off a discussion of the module balance surrounding the Entosis Link, since that's an area where I expect we can calm some fears relatively easily. The short version is that we have all the tools of EVE's module design at our disposal to ensure that no specific tactics get out of hand. So if problems show up in discussion and playtesting we're happy to let players try to find a counter and then relatively easily step in if that counter doesn't materialize.



Nothing is set in stone and no, the world is not ending.


Oh, totally, but just saying that because it's never explicitly stated that the module will fit on interceptors means there's reason for someone to think it might... that's disingenuous, don't you think?


I agree, but it think its more discourteous than disingenuous. He doesn't outright say it but i think it's clear that's what hes hinting at. He should have just put the fears to bed now instead of waiting. A simple "links wont fit on inties" would have been better.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#2270 - 2015-03-05 12:12:20 UTC
Terence Bogard wrote:
I agree, but it think its more discourteous than disingenuous. He doesn't outright say it but i think it's clear that's what hes hinting at. He should have just put the fears to bed now instead of waiting. A simple "links wont fit on inties" would have been better.


He probably feels that if he says that, he's ensuring that someone, somehow, will wait until they go in, and then post a 3b isk fitting that requires extensive high-end implants, but manages to fit one. Just to say 'FOZZIE LIED'.
Blast Radius1
Industrial Mining and Mayhem
Sigma Grindset
#2271 - 2015-03-05 12:12:33 UTC
Terence Bogard wrote:
Arrendis wrote:
Terence Bogard wrote:
Arrendis wrote:

But strongly implied by:

'Low fitting requirements, uses high power slot.'

see
CCP Fozzie wrote:

I'll also probably be quickly spinning off a discussion of the module balance surrounding the Entosis Link, since that's an area where I expect we can calm some fears relatively easily. The short version is that we have all the tools of EVE's module design at our disposal to ensure that no specific tactics get out of hand. So if problems show up in discussion and playtesting we're happy to let players try to find a counter and then relatively easily step in if that counter doesn't materialize.



Nothing is set in stone and no, the world is not ending.


Oh, totally, but just saying that because it's never explicitly stated that the module will fit on interceptors means there's reason for someone to think it might... that's disingenuous, don't you think?


I agree, but it think its more discourteous than disingenuous. He doesn't outright say it but i think it's clear that's what hes hinting at. He should have just put the fears to bed now instead of waiting. A simple "links wont fit on inties" would have been better.

Yet, if it was attention they were seeking by not explicitly ruling it out, I would say they have op success, no?
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#2272 - 2015-03-05 12:12:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Zappity
Lurifax wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Bezdar22 wrote:
lemme tell u whats gonna happen...

there will be FW like fights in null sec.. no more big fights.. frig fights every where...

what they dont understand ppl coe top play this game coz they heard of big fights.. thats what make story .. not small fights.

small fights just look cool thats about it..

this game wil become WOW pretty soon.. thats where CCP leading us.





There will still be big fights. But wars will not be a LOT of boredom waiting for failed opportunitie sof such big fights.. and then suddenly end after a single big fight.

Wars will be more interestign with several smaller engagements, until someone tries to go for a very important target when Big fight WILL happen. The only difference is that the bigh fight will not be on a single grid, but spread all over the constellation.

More tactical depth, more strategical opportunities. THe need of real fleet commanders, not people that just call targets. The need of a hierarchy of command because you will have several ' regiments" in a fleet that must spread


Have you ever fought a sov war? You are not going to see small gangs zipping around fightting for the nodes.

To be fair, you have never fought one of these sov wars either. Nobody has.

The real irony is that active FW corps are probably the best adapted to this kind of fighting, with good depth in highly competent pilots.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Speedkermit Damo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#2273 - 2015-03-05 12:14:10 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Papa Django wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:

won't take us four hours to RF the entire region, just 30 minutes


Stop with the mittani trollceptor.

A single ship with a link is enough to counter your ridiculous wing of trollceptor.


We can dump several hundred of them on you for fun. Several thousand if someone kicks the hive.


Is that the official narrative today?

Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2274 - 2015-03-05 12:15:28 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:

The T2 module gives differing tactical options, that is why its there, its actually pretty smart, the functionality comes at a significant increased cost and I expect a lot of ships will die trying to RF.

EDIT: By the way, I do not think that the T2 version is meant for smaller ships, even though it may be used for them, I think that its a module thaht require lock so its limited to the targetting range, at least I hope that is the case.


The tactical options can come from the 1000% buff to range.

The speed buff is simply not necessary. 5 minutes might, in and of itself, be too fast. The only saving grace is that once you activate it, you are stuck on grid for that whole time. Although the question needs to be answered as to whether flying out of range will immediately halt the module (and thus give you back warp ability), or whether the cycle time will still complete but unsuccessfully(thus preventing warp for the entire cycle time).

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Papa Digger
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2275 - 2015-03-05 12:15:50 UTC
Worrff wrote:

You know that Goons have a large around the clock presence, yes ?

I never thought about it.. Roll
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2276 - 2015-03-05 12:16:42 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Terence Bogard wrote:
Arrendis wrote:
Terence Bogard wrote:
Arrendis wrote:

But strongly implied by:

'Low fitting requirements, uses high power slot.'

see
CCP Fozzie wrote:

I'll also probably be quickly spinning off a discussion of the module balance surrounding the Entosis Link, since that's an area where I expect we can calm some fears relatively easily. The short version is that we have all the tools of EVE's module design at our disposal to ensure that no specific tactics get out of hand. So if problems show up in discussion and playtesting we're happy to let players try to find a counter and then relatively easily step in if that counter doesn't materialize.



Nothing is set in stone and no, the world is not ending.


Oh, totally, but just saying that because it's never explicitly stated that the module will fit on interceptors means there's reason for someone to think it might... that's disingenuous, don't you think?


I agree, but it think its more discourteous than disingenuous. He doesn't outright say it but i think it's clear that's what hes hinting at. He should have just put the fears to bed now instead of waiting. A simple "links wont fit on inties" would have been better.


Logically, they are waiting to see if people actually understand what is being presented here, in depth, rather than feed hysteria.
Eventually, people will realise, that the new sovereignty landscape is mobile, to encourage active players in coalitions of many new smaller time zone based alliances, created either from new, or smaller from the current big alliances, to defend their home constellation, and NOT claim ownership, of areas they are neither wishing to live in or defend.

But of course people will resist this, because it is different.
There are no doubt ways it can be more effective, and enjoyable.
But until people get exhausted form trying fruitlessly, to remove all the tools of the new sov2 it will be hard to move on from that into productive discourse.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Lord TGR
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2277 - 2015-03-05 12:17:53 UTC
Lurifax wrote:
Have you ever fought a sov war? You are not going to see small gangs zipping around fightting for the nodes.

That's the wrong question, there are tons of people who've fought in a sov war under both the dominion sov system and the old POS system, and none of those experiences are likely to be worth all that much when it comes to the minutiae which'll be exploited as hard as it can using the new system. So the correct question would be "have you fought a sov war in a system like this?".

The answer to that is most likely no, but the chances of small gangs zipping around fighting for the nodes is much higher than it is for the current sov system to yield "small gangs zipping around".
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2278 - 2015-03-05 12:18:08 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

I will give some serious thought as to why, you are unable to understand that in a system that is designed to ensure local occupancy and defence, why having inpenetrateable gatecamps 20 jumps out that will ensure that no one gets to the target, and removing the tools that can penetrate them, does not work to achieve those goals.


I'm not sure why you think that guarding the external borders of a contiguous area of sovereignty should be a 100% unviable option.

Oh, that's right. Your bias is why you think that.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Terence Bogard
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#2279 - 2015-03-05 12:18:45 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Terence Bogard wrote:
I agree, but it think its more discourteous than disingenuous. He doesn't outright say it but i think it's clear that's what hes hinting at. He should have just put the fears to bed now instead of waiting. A simple "links wont fit on inties" would have been better.


He probably feels that if he says that, he's ensuring that someone, somehow, will wait until they go in, and then post a 3b isk fitting that requires extensive high-end implants, but manages to fit one. Just to say 'FOZZIE LIED'.


lol, he should have prepared his anus when he opened of the can of sov. He'll catch a ton of **** for this and for the rest of his career some people are gonna say he ruined the game. But when the changes end up for the better as im fairly confident they will, he can tell all of em to eat it
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2280 - 2015-03-05 12:19:00 UTC
Speedkermit Damo wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Papa Django wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:

won't take us four hours to RF the entire region, just 30 minutes


Stop with the mittani trollceptor.

A single ship with a link is enough to counter your ridiculous wing of trollceptor.


We can dump several hundred of them on you for fun. Several thousand if someone kicks the hive.


Is that the official narrative today?


It has been for years. Most of the space we already have is near useless and provides nothing for the ordinary line member. After this change it will still be useless space only now it will be even easier to disrupt everyone using our massive numbers.