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Tl;dr work to achieve great things, not to stop them.

See, the reason we - and by 'we', I don't just mean Goons, I mean the majority of folks from the blocs - are focusing on the griefer angle is: we know what we'll do with this kind of tool available to us. Just in the CFC, we've got a SIG already devoted to doing this sort of thing, and this will just make it easier to go and make sure that smaller, less organized alliances don't hold sov. We won't actually take the systems - that would involve dropping a TCU and IHUB ourselves, after all... but how many of these less-organized alliances are going to put up with the freighter (not jump freighter) hauling needed if we're consistently burning down ihubs as fast as they drop them?

Because, you know, we'll do that kind of thing. We're jerks like that. Will we do it to every small alliance every day? Doubtful. But at the same time, if the intention for this system is to make things fun, and actually invigorate nullsec into more conflict between smaller blocs, then doesn't it behoove the devs to actually have an idea of how the blocs operate?

Because they don't. They don't have any idea of the levels of organization present in even HERO, and HERO organizes everything openly, on reddit. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out that the CFC has more metrics and data collection going on about New Eden than CCP itself does. I don't think for a moment that we intend to have that kind of level of OCD going on, but you know, that's just how dysfunctional a lot of us are.

And we've been generally proven right on things like this. Sentry drone assist, jump fatigue for haulers, the continuing need for nerfs to the Ishtar, etc, etc.

See, we legitimately want a more interesting, more vibrant, more fun nullsec. We live here, and let's face it, ratting is about as exciting as watching a test pattern. If it's more fun, then we're having more fun. We like fun. It's fun. So when we see CCP saying 'we want to make null more interesting and fluid, with more small actors', we like the idea... but we're wary of the execution. Especially when it comes in a form that people all around null are looking at and saying 'this is really only going to come to griefing. This won't generate fights like you think it will'.

We know what we'll do with this. And we're bastards enough to know that even if we think that what we'll do with it shouldn't be allowed... we'll do it anyway, because if we don't, someone else will do it to us. They'll probably do it to us either way, really.

So think about this: Most of the people telling you what horrible things we'll do? They're regular line members of the various blocs. The really dangerous, evil, sadistic bastards who come up with our true skullduggeries are likely plotting things far, far worse. If we're focusing on the griefer aspect of this a bit more than you think we should? It's not because we like being the boogeyman. It's because we want a good game to play, but we also know that if CCP hands us a pack of smokes and a lighter, we might smoke some of them... but we're also likely to melt the filters into a fiberglass shiv, aimed for your kidneys.

Don't let us. Don't give us the tools to be worse than we already are. Because we will. And we'll enjoy it, for as long as CCP lets us ride that mechanic into the ground. And for every voice saying 'you'll get bored of being jackasses and start behaving rationally', I can only ask: After all these years, when exactly are we, the assembled bastards and griefers throughout nullsec, supposed to get bored of being jackasses?

Except that isn't what you said.

What you said was to deride anyone who has a suggestion. What you said was "that ship has sailed", when the whole point of this thread existing, according to a literal dev, is to demonstrate that it has not.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

Kaarous, whilst I try to reply to you politely, please do not make things up and put words into my mouth that were not said.

But in a system based around active occupancy, removing the tools, or neutering those that enable that, is not going to work too well is it? But you of course know this. Which is why you wish to remove the tools.

There exists no system which can be made which'll protect a smaller entity 100% from a bigger entity, because unless you put hard caps on something (which means they'll just bring more powerful toys than the little guy and the little guy's still ******), the bigger entity will use the mechanics to their advantage.

And even if you add a mechanic which says that the smaller the entity on field, the more poweful it gets, the bigger entity'll still faceroll the smaller one, as the bigger one can then be in more places at once with the "optimum fleet setup" than the smaller entity can.

Don't let us. Don't give us the tools to be worse than we already are. Because we will. And we'll enjoy it, for as long as CCP lets us ride that mechanic into the ground. And for every voice saying 'you'll get bored of being jackasses and start behaving rationally', I can only ask: After all these years, when exactly are we, the assembled bastards and griefers throughout nullsec, supposed to get bored of being jackasses?

I think you'll get bored to alarmclocking to grief euro timers every 2 days.. emm, in 1-2 weeks. :)

There is truth in what you say, but you may have noticed, a subtle change is occuring. CCP have moved away from promoting the "antisocial" behaviour, into a new path of giving us the tools to build our own universe and interactions, and seeing what we build.

Whilst short term the results may look the same, in reality, there is a change starting to ripple across, and I believe that the more extreme will begin to be shunned and isolated, by US, not by CCP and withering away to background noise.

Without the spotlight, and reviled by most, they lose the "oxygen" of attention and like spoilt toddlers, grow up. And become part of the community.