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Dev blog: Politics by Other Means: Sovereignty Phase Two

First post First post First post
Author
Zip Slings
The Picket Line
#1061 - 2015-03-04 04:51:05 UTC
Altirius Saldiaro wrote:
Zhalon wrote:
1) ....not sure how you address cloaky campers.


No local, no afk cloaker. The answer is to just delay local and actually make nullsec challenging to live in. Guard your gates, scout the routes to your home. There should be consequences for being lazy nullbears.


correct. this system changes how you think about null. If you have a strategically important system that you want to keep, act like it and have a standing fleet to protect your damn space.
Orontes Ovasi
Zero Fun Allowed
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#1062 - 2015-03-04 04:54:04 UTC
I'd rather have POS sov than a literally useless mechanic that encourages fleeing as soon as enemies appear and reinforcing things elsewhere than it does combat. Let alone making supers/caps near worthless in nullsec, encouraging horrid mono-tz borefests where US Nulli and RUTZ Stainwagon will literally never fight again.

And to all the retards arguing that you just entosis link a gang of 30 with your own, what do you do when that gang splits into 2-3? And roams reinforcing and shutting down systems for the 4hr primetime they have?

Question though: Will reinforcing the industry service with the entosis link cause jobs to be canceled? Because that'd be hilariously broken.

Kudos though, I thought that a change that more encouraged stagnation/defending wouldn't be possible after phoebe and the introduction of jump fatigay, clearly I was incorrect.
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
#1063 - 2015-03-04 04:54:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
Maybe someone could explain to me...what is the benefit to population/activity based bonus for defense.

CCP wants pvp.
0.0 this usually involves the road trip experience.

Can't take the whole gang with you since someone has to keep bonuses up.

Soooo....how is this sponsoring PVP? It seems to be sponsoring turtle tactics with current space held and little to no road trip action plans for the future. Less pvp potentially as I see it really.


Well that and why are null bear heavy crews looking to get a boost form this? Those people you have to raise taxes to 100% to get out of the pve ship and into a pvp ship to you know...pvp. Avoiding pvp till corps has to do this tax rate change....should not be encouraged with a bonus imo.
OldWolf69
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1064 - 2015-03-04 04:56:29 UTC
Altirius Saldiaro wrote:
Zhalon wrote:
1) ....not sure how you address cloaky campers.


No local, no afk cloaker. The answer is to just delay local and actually make nullsec challenging to live in. Guard your gates, scout the routes to your home. There should be consequences for being lazy nullbears.

How about someone removes security from hisec so u have to pay attention to the hisec miner fuelling your afk camper? Smile Oh, the tears, the tears...
Cr Turist
Arcana Noctis
#1065 - 2015-03-04 05:01:58 UTC
Karbowiak wrote:
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
Karbowiak wrote:
Am i the only one wishing that we'd get the old pos warfare sov system back? Shocked

no, i liked that and it was significantly better in a lot of ways than this or dominion

it was completely broken by AOE doomsdays protecting cynojammers, but that's gotten fixed, and fuel blocks exist now


True story.

Plus with the POS system, you could take a system in about a day, instead of spending a week taking on system.
Yes you had to steamroll a system with lots of dreads, but compared to the current system, or the proposed one, you atleast had a light at the end of the tunnel.

Meh, whatever..



i never ever thought i would say this but i agree. bring back the whole pos system or something like it. i mean people complain about grinding but it leads to hot drops, fights, and bitter old vets (anyone who was around during the pos sov years knows what i mean)

but i doubt it matters since CCP has already stopped reading this thread as can be noticed by the lack of dev feedback or of answering any questions.
Ser Berus
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1066 - 2015-03-04 05:05:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Ser Berus
Just so we're clear, this is a perfect illustration of why using the development indexes as they are today is so hilariously stupid:

http://i.imgur.com/n84nWAH.png

Sure is a lotta mining happening in that there nullsec, yep


Edit: theta squad, sov backbone of the goonswarm federation
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#1067 - 2015-03-04 05:07:11 UTC
Infrequent wrote:
All of these null anom bear tears, my god this is a gold mine. Can't wait for these changes, if you're threatening to leave null or infact Eve in general because CCP are actually making educated decisions on Eve's most prominent issue, good because the game really does not need people like you.

Keep it up CCP, once things get ironed out, tweaks made, numbers crunched, we'll have us a fantastic set of changes coming to null that'll finally work to get it out of it's sorry state.



Eve needs every player it can get and keep.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#1068 - 2015-03-04 05:07:51 UTC
Cr Turist wrote:
Karbowiak wrote:
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
Karbowiak wrote:
Am i the only one wishing that we'd get the old pos warfare sov system back? Shocked

no, i liked that and it was significantly better in a lot of ways than this or dominion

it was completely broken by AOE doomsdays protecting cynojammers, but that's gotten fixed, and fuel blocks exist now


True story.

Plus with the POS system, you could take a system in about a day, instead of spending a week taking on system.
Yes you had to steamroll a system with lots of dreads, but compared to the current system, or the proposed one, you atleast had a light at the end of the tunnel.

Meh, whatever..



i never ever thought i would say this but i agree. bring back the whole pos system or something like it. i mean people complain about grinding but it leads to hot drops, fights, and bitter old vets (anyone who was around during the pos sov years knows what i mean)

but i doubt it matters since CCP has already stopped reading this thread as can be noticed by the lack of dev feedback or of answering any questions.




lol you honestly think fozzie was going to communicate on this epic thread right now?? you remember when greyscale tried it and was countered left and right.. he left the building claiming he was sick...(and went home to hide in his cave)
Barbaydos
Kraken Exploration and Janitorial Services
The Initiative.
#1069 - 2015-03-04 05:09:35 UTC
Cr Turist wrote:
Karbowiak wrote:
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
Karbowiak wrote:
Am i the only one wishing that we'd get the old pos warfare sov system back? Shocked

no, i liked that and it was significantly better in a lot of ways than this or dominion

it was completely broken by AOE doomsdays protecting cynojammers, but that's gotten fixed, and fuel blocks exist now


True story.

Plus with the POS system, you could take a system in about a day, instead of spending a week taking on system.
Yes you had to steamroll a system with lots of dreads, but compared to the current system, or the proposed one, you atleast had a light at the end of the tunnel.

Meh, whatever..



i never ever thought i would say this but i agree. bring back the whole pos system or something like it. i mean people complain about grinding but it leads to hot drops, fights, and bitter old vets (anyone who was around during the pos sov years knows what i mean)

but i doubt it matters since CCP has already stopped reading this thread as can be noticed by the lack of dev feedback or of answering any questions.



usually they wait about 24 hours so that people can get the collective rage out and a semblance of rational thought starts to reappear... plus the actual changes proposed here dont take effect for a few months so they have time to troll through the threadnought
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#1070 - 2015-03-04 05:36:26 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
Aryndel Vyst wrote:
HEY LETS MAKE SOV EASIER TO TAKE FROM LARGE ENTITIES BUT GIVE NO BENEFITS WHATSOEVER TO THE RESIDENTS.

Do you want everyone to do high sec incursions or something?


~content creation~


No they want 0.0 to be owned by people who actually want to fight, not carebears who hide behind blues while creating alts to shoot people who don't shoot back.



Excessive suicide ganking is symptomatic of a stagnant null. No matter what the system is, how people actually fight, you aren't going to get much fighting if there's nothing to actually fight over. There's plenty of empty regions where you could fight purely for the sake of a fight, but some people, or some political structures, evidently need a narrative or purpose to do so.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?

Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#1071 - 2015-03-04 05:44:29 UTC
If I overheat my guns with an entosis link active will it take heat damage and burnt out? Would this allow me to inactivate the module at will and warp away?

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#1072 - 2015-03-04 05:45:32 UTC
Zip Slings wrote:
Altirius Saldiaro wrote:
Zhalon wrote:
1) ....not sure how you address cloaky campers.


No local, no afk cloaker. The answer is to just delay local and actually make nullsec challenging to live in. Guard your gates, scout the routes to your home. There should be consequences for being lazy nullbears.


correct. this system changes how you think about null. If you have a strategically important system that you want to keep, act like it and have a standing fleet to protect your damn space.

I see you and CCP are of like mind.
Both of you just want to make sov warfare as "dynamic" and "engaging" as possible, and knowingly place the emphasis in this new system under the attacking force, rather than the defending force. And yet you fail to address the reasons why someone might want to hold that sov in the first place.

EVE is risk AND reward. The balance is currently too far skewed towards risk in nullsec, and this expansion does little to really address rewards as it increases risks even further.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1073 - 2015-03-04 05:57:55 UTC

Primary This Rifter wrote:
And yet you fail to address the reasons why someone might want to hold that sov in the first place.


I'm asking because I don't know. Why do alliances hold the space that they do today? The changes don't specifically change the motivations for holding the space, so why would you ask this question now?

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#1074 - 2015-03-04 05:59:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Nevyn Auscent
Barbaydos wrote:
Cr Turist wrote:
Karbowiak wrote:
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
Karbowiak wrote:
Am i the only one wishing that we'd get the old pos warfare sov system back? Shocked

no, i liked that and it was significantly better in a lot of ways than this or dominion

it was completely broken by AOE doomsdays protecting cynojammers, but that's gotten fixed, and fuel blocks exist now


True story.

Plus with the POS system, you could take a system in about a day, instead of spending a week taking on system.
Yes you had to steamroll a system with lots of dreads, but compared to the current system, or the proposed one, you atleast had a light at the end of the tunnel.

Meh, whatever..



i never ever thought i would say this but i agree. bring back the whole pos system or something like it. i mean people complain about grinding but it leads to hot drops, fights, and bitter old vets (anyone who was around during the pos sov years knows what i mean)

but i doubt it matters since CCP has already stopped reading this thread as can be noticed by the lack of dev feedback or of answering any questions.



usually they wait about 24 hours so that people can get the collective rage out and a semblance of rational thought starts to reappear... plus the actual changes proposed here dont take effect for a few months so they have time to troll through the threadnought

That and it is 6 am fozzie time right now. He may be a legend. But even legends need a bit of sleep.

Also null is not lower income. That's always been laughable and the nerf high sec crowd always pull the world's best high sec figures while using mediocre null figures to try and 'prove' their points. (And insist on playing for perfect safety in Null. Docking whenever a neut enters local which biases risk towards high sec). Rather than comparing apples and apples. Everyone sensible knows null generates more income overall.

However as I said earlier. Doesn't mean population density is good. Density in a good system should look like Osmon.
Altirius Saldiaro
Doomheim
#1075 - 2015-03-04 06:03:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Altirius Saldiaro
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Zip Slings wrote:
Altirius Saldiaro wrote:
Zhalon wrote:
1) ....not sure how you address cloaky campers.


No local, no afk cloaker. The answer is to just delay local and actually make nullsec challenging to live in. Guard your gates, scout the routes to your home. There should be consequences for being lazy nullbears.


correct. this system changes how you think about null. If you have a strategically important system that you want to keep, act like it and have a standing fleet to protect your damn space.

I see you and CCP are of like mind.
Both of you just want to make sov warfare as "dynamic" and "engaging" as possible, and knowingly place the emphasis in this new system under the attacking force, rather than the defending force. And yet you fail to address the reasons why someone might want to hold that sov in the first place.

EVE is risk AND reward. The balance is currently too far skewed towards risk in nullsec, and this expansion does little to really address rewards as it increases risks even further.


Having the luxury of a local channel tell you who is in system is very risky indeed. Its so hard to live in nullsec.

We have all sorts of risks in wspace. We deal with those risks and still get our rewards. You want more safety in nullsec? Maybe CCP should just extend your local channel to constellation wide so you can see reds farther out.
Lena Lazair
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1076 - 2015-03-04 06:10:10 UTC
Talbrys Narentyr wrote:
Edit: And for those who keep saying "well you can stop their progress by putting your own sov lazor on it" are ********. Then it just becomes a battle of who is willing to stay logged on longer. The only way this could possibly work is if it was a cruiser size and above. If it can be put on an inty it's the end of sov warfare and the beginning of sov trolling.


If your alliance cannot be bothered to have one person put one E-link on a structure in their HOME SYSTEM for, AT MOST, 4 hours during your PRIMARY PLAYTIME then you have no business owning sov anywhere. The whole point of this system is to make AFK, sprawling sov a thing of the past.
Proton Stars
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1077 - 2015-03-04 06:17:29 UTC
Lena Lazair wrote:
Talbrys Narentyr wrote:
Edit: And for those who keep saying "well you can stop their progress by putting your own sov lazor on it" are ********. Then it just becomes a battle of who is willing to stay logged on longer. The only way this could possibly work is if it was a cruiser size and above. If it can be put on an inty it's the end of sov warfare and the beginning of sov trolling.


If your alliance cannot be bothered to have one person put one E-link on a structure in their HOME SYSTEM for, AT MOST, 4 hours during your PRIMARY PLAYTIME then you have no business owning sov anywhere. The whole point of this system is to make AFK, sprawling sov a thing of the past.



I thought the whole point was to boost smaller entities who may struggle to do just this for 4 hours, 365days a year!
Lena Lazair
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1078 - 2015-03-04 06:21:15 UTC
Lister Vindaloo wrote:
There is no excuse for being able to use your 'prime time' window to exclude entire time zones from participating in alliance/corporation activities, it is simply a divisive, segregating mechanic that will disillusion entire groups from attempting to participate in sov warfare, it HAS to go, i dont know how to respond to anyone who supports it as it only reduces content rather than increase it


There are only two fixes to the TZ problem.

Turn sov into "turn-based" gameplay. That is basically what we have today. Timers go uncontested. Fleets are moved en-mass to overwhelmingly capture an objective. It's like playing civ.. you stack your units until you have overwhelming force to take a city, then move in at once and take it in an all-or-nothing move. Any competent defending player simply removes their units so as not to waste losses on an unwinnable defensive fight (defense fleet never shows up to defend timer). Or they amass sufficient defense that the attacker removes THEIR army and doesn't even bother on the attempt (attack fleet never shows up to finish timer). This is the state of things today.

Or, sov can be real-time gameplay, requiring actual interaction with other humans flying other spaceships. Real-time interactions result in escalating fleet situations that aren't all-or-nothing predetermined outcomes. Unfortunately, CCP cannot fix the reality that real-time interactions can only happen between people that are online at roughly the same times without inventing time-travel. As a result, sov interactions will be gated by TZ by the laws of reality. Accept and adapt.
Urziel99
Multiplex Gaming
Tactical Narcotics Team
#1079 - 2015-03-04 06:23:58 UTC
I thought Greyscale left the company? If these two blogs are any indication his ghost is alive and well.
Locke DieDrake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1080 - 2015-03-04 06:27:45 UTC
Kyonko Nola wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Kyonko Nola wrote:
I would strongly suggest you make the modules ship size specific. Otherwise there will be 100 inties circling around the objective all the time


In which case an atron (to halt the inty's progress) and a few HACs will have a shooting gallery. I sincerely encourage WAFFLES to try that 100 inties thing.


What I am concerned is that with other things happening around the grid, a gang of inties with the module running all the time orbiting 250 km will be hard for the defenders to actually do something about them. Best case, it would be annoying. There are a lot of factors involved and I think that it is extremely disadvantageous for the defenders.

But what do I know about SOV. And I do not speak for my corporation, just inputting my opinion for ccp to consider.

Also Waffles.


1) Show me a fit for an inty with 250km lock range.

2) Show me the same fit that doesn't die in one or two vollies to a sniper fit eagle.