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Dev blog: Politics by Other Means: Sovereignty Phase Two

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epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#821 - 2015-03-03 23:09:30 UTC
Eli Apol wrote:
Capt Tenguru79 wrote:
Actually you can get a crow to lock up to 175k with implants and passive boost, and have a MWD. have not checked with links yet but most certainly about 220-230k

And it's still countered by an atron sat at 0 with a link of its own...


Quite true, and the desire to kill the opposition twenty gates away, is not exactly playing to CCP's goals. Local defence is the name of the game. You point out how easy it is IF YOU HAVE PEOPLE LIVING THERE.
And that's the idea, banning interceptors etc is just trying to keep things the same.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#822 - 2015-03-03 23:09:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Phoenix Jones
I'll have to review something on whether defensive reinforcing is possible with neutral alts. I don't think it is.

The prime time thing is fine. The 4 hour time on it after I thought it over is fine also. They basically give you 20 hours to roam everywhere and 4 hours to hang at home everyday. It's still theory and that would probably need to be tested.

But moving the 4 hour time limit to 6 or 8 or 12 is probably a bad idea especially for an active system with pilots in it. The last thing you need is people endlessly camping their own system terrified to go 1 jump because of being reinforced.

)

Yaay!!!!
Total Newbie
State War Academy
Caldari State
#823 - 2015-03-03 23:09:53 UTC
SoulLess Zealot wrote:
Total Newbie wrote:
*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

To recap:

1st phase we made it impossible to project force.

2nd phase we have made it so any scrub corp or band of newbie alts can mess with sov.


yea thats the idea. if you can handle a bunch of "scrub newbie alts" you didn't really deserve it in the first place. sorry you cant sit back ,rat and drop supers on anything that tries to contest you.

im glad ccp has turned null sec from a niche lag grind into something more fun and meaningful. something that is actualy worthy of the revere!


And I would be willing to bet that every player, such as yourself, with 2 years in the game feels pretty much the same. You weren't here when the sov mechanics changed the last time, so I will help you. Basically they have reverted back to 2009, and now added everything that is Bad in FW.

In your shoes, I would probably feel the same, however, there are loads of people still left in the game with 7,8,9, 10 years in that have invested countless hours, endured changes throughout that have RARELY benefitted older players, and yet again CCP continues their failed strategy to continue to force High sec bears into nullsec...... If they really wanted to go, they would have gone long ago......

They can show you a flashy graph that says "Look, Nulls sec has more kills and more people in it since we created jump fatigue!!!!"

It's a sham, because along with the nerf, Big alliances basically went and took the space they wanted. Killed any leftover assets (Pos's, POCOS, etc) which generate loads of KM's.

Yes, the DEvs showed you that there was an increase in players and kills..... When there was CTA after CTA after CTA for the past 2 month, people subbed their Titans and Supers, and their alts..... I had 4 toons running almost 24/7.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#824 - 2015-03-03 23:11:22 UTC
I have removed a reply to an edited out part of the post it quoted.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#825 - 2015-03-03 23:11:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Hairpins Blueprint
Lena Lazair wrote:
Altrue wrote:
The bad stuff:
[list]
  • Yay! Brave Collective will pick an US timezone and thanks to your new system, ensure that EU and AU get no chances to defend their space EVER. At least, with the current system we had the opportunity to actively prevent the first attack...Ugh Now all is left is the defense of station services, very exciting.

    • Or maybe Brave could split into multiple alliances for differing timezones that are loosely affiliated in a coalition but are much more independent and locally operated. And then maybe once in awhile those alliances might get bored and actually fight each other instead of blue-ing up half the map, or draw conflict from smaller groups that want to take on, say, only AU Brave but not the entirety of US/EU/AU Brave.

    Which, I think, was kind of the point. It's supposed to encourage these massive blocs to break up into smaller, localized units with people that actually PLAY TOGETHER in similar timezones, in space, with each other. Not just in name only.



    You hit the bedrock here \\o//

    +1

    i like this new sov a lot, and I enjoy every tear that drops here ^^
    Rendiff
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #826 - 2015-03-03 23:13:29 UTC
    I like where they're going with this, but they need to make each system able to sustain the activity of a larger number of players.

    If a system can sustain ratting/mining/etc for more players each alliance will require less space, allowing more groups entry into null.
    Escuro
    SUN PRAISING INTENSIFIES
    DarkSide.
    #827 - 2015-03-03 23:13:38 UTC
    Phoenix Jones wrote:
    I'll have to review something on whether defensive reinforcing is possible with neutral alts. I don't think it is.

    The prime time thing is fine. The 4 hour time on it after I thought it over is fine also. They basically give you 20 hours to roam everywhere and 4 hours to hang at home everyday. It's still theory and that would probably need to be tested.

    But moving the 4 hour time limit to 6 or 8 or 12 is probably a bad idea especially for an active system with pilots in it. The last thing you need is people endlessly camping their own system terrified to go 1 jump because of being reinforced.


    Also I highly recommend a few restrictions on this new module be in place.

    1) cannot be fit on any covops, t3, black ops battleship or force recon (combat recon is fine). I would go so far as to prevent any ship from being able to even fit a cloaking device on itself when it has this module. It avoids some basic cloaky camping bs. They can swap stuff using a mobile depot if they want.

    2) cannot be done on a npc corp alt (think that was already stated)

    if you actually use your systems - it's a 40 minute timer. Just don't hold OVER9000 systems and stick to those you need. Then you will not have to go roaming 40 jumps away and will be able to respond timely. If you own systems with a 10 minute timer - you don't need them.
    Rowells
    Blackwater USA Inc.
    Pandemic Horde
    #828 - 2015-03-03 23:14:06 UTC
    I'm gonna quote an alliance buddy here:

    Q: How many EVE players does it take to change a lightbulb?

    A: CHANGE???????? NNOOOOOOOOOOO
    afkalt
    Republic Military School
    Minmatar Republic
    #829 - 2015-03-03 23:14:09 UTC
    Violent Morgana wrote:
    So I have gang of 20 ceptors, fit for extreme speed (20km/s for example and 150km locking range) and t2 Entosis Link. Who/What can stop my gang from reinforcing the whole region? The module needs to either disable any prop mods or make the ship stationary like siege does. That will give you the fights you are trying to force.

    Also whats up with this prime time? Should we only have USTZ alliance, EUTZ alliance etc in huge blocks focused on very specific 4hour window in time?



    A single defender with a link?


    Or a handful with ECM/damps.
    Hairpins Blueprint
    The Northerners
    Pandemic Horde
    #830 - 2015-03-03 23:15:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Hairpins Blueprint
    MajorScrewup wrote:
    I seriously thought there was going to be more after all this time...

    Realistically there is now the possibility that I could never be involved in trying to take SOV as every other alliance could set a time when I cannot log into EvE and play. This artificial timer could mean that EvE null-sec only becomes an option to certain timezones.




    Isn't the game working this way right now any way?

    you set the timers to 2H window now, and you also can set timer on POS if you are online.

    Nothing will change with new timers, you just have 4 hours insted of two now.
    Rowells
    Blackwater USA Inc.
    Pandemic Horde
    #831 - 2015-03-03 23:16:12 UTC
    Also, advocating again to base the prime time on corp that owns structure rather than alliance
    epicurus ataraxia
    Illusion of Solitude.
    Illusion of Solitude
    #832 - 2015-03-03 23:17:57 UTC
    Rowells wrote:
    Also, advocating again to base the prime time on corp that owns structure rather than alliance


    That does make sense if we are going to local defence, that tends to happen at corp level rather than alliance level.

    There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
    Rowells
    Blackwater USA Inc.
    Pandemic Horde
    #833 - 2015-03-03 23:18:50 UTC
    epicurus ataraxia wrote:
    Rowells wrote:
    Also, advocating again to base the prime time on corp that owns structure rather than alliance


    That does make sense if we are going to local defence, that tends to happen at corp level rather than alliance level.

    Worst case you can still help out another corp that has similar TZ if your in a diverse corp.
    KIller Wabbit
    MEME Thoughts
    #834 - 2015-03-03 23:19:06 UTC
    Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
    Dev Blog wrote:

    Providing benefits for robust in-space activity has been one of the key drivers of many of the economic changes to Nullsec over the past few years, and those changes have been quite successful in shifting the focus of Nullsec economic activity from static assets to bottom-up gameplay. It’s now time to begin linking this same bottom-up economic activity more strongly with the world of strategic Sovereignty warfare.


    Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Oh, my sides, that hurt.

    Wow. I mean, just wow. Oh god, I'm going to be giggling for days.


    He was a bit over the top in several places. I like all the summaries in the first blog - ~ "Things are just dandy after Phoebe". Holy cow - spin, spin, spin.
    Sigras
    Conglomo
    #835 - 2015-03-03 23:19:14 UTC
    The only change I would make at first glance is expanding the "prime time" window to 8 hours. This would allow your alliance to pick US/EU, US/RUS or EU/RUS but not be required to cover all 3.
    Jalebi
    Tata Space Industries
    #836 - 2015-03-03 23:19:24 UTC
    The proposed metrics for occupancy bonuses -- the current industrial/military/ indices-- are outdated.

    Basing them on only mining and killing NPCs doesn't cover the entire scope of living in a system. For example, Industrial index should also include manufacturing and research done, military index can include player deaths (perhaps final blows or PvP damage from the sov holding alliance can contribute to this number?), and strategic index can include jump bridge or cyno beacon usage.
    epicurus ataraxia
    Illusion of Solitude.
    Illusion of Solitude
    #837 - 2015-03-03 23:19:39 UTC
    Rowells wrote:
    epicurus ataraxia wrote:
    Rowells wrote:
    Also, advocating again to base the prime time on corp that owns structure rather than alliance


    That does make sense if we are going to local defence, that tends to happen at corp level rather than alliance level.

    Worst case you can still help out another corp that has similar TZ if your in a diverse corp.



    That seems logical, worth CCP considering if it fits their goals.

    There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
    Geanos
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #838 - 2015-03-03 23:20:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Geanos
    Sorry if somebody already brought it up: the part with the exploding TCU is problematic. It will turn the sov capturing into a race of who can drop first the TCU from cloaked blockade runners. It doesn't matter if you where defeated on the battlefield, you where a faster clicker than the other guy and managed to keep sov... This might make the capture of the command nodes pointless for the defender if they have a fast guy on stand-by. And will add a lot of frustration for the attacking players that did everything right but had a 0.5 sec slower guy dropping the TCU.
    Hairpins Blueprint
    The Northerners
    Pandemic Horde
    #839 - 2015-03-03 23:20:15 UTC
    Rendiff wrote:
    I like where they're going with this, but they need to make each system able to sustain the activity of a larger number of players.

    If a system can sustain ratting/mining/etc for more players each alliance will require less space, allowing more groups entry into null.



    Is you drop more anoms than there are now, people will endlesly bump into each other.
    It's super anoying, as long there is no toll (better than d scan) to see if anomaly is occupied, i don't see a way to do it.
    Abulurd Boniface
    Center for Advanced Studies
    Gallente Federation
    #840 - 2015-03-03 23:21:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Abulurd Boniface
    1. Kudos for the gumption of addressing a long-standing problem in nul-sec mechanics. This is going to be the thread naught to end all thread naughts :-)

    2. Your communication about it is nothing short of a thing of beauty. I understand where you're going with this on the first pass. Extremely exciting.

    3. Distributing the spawns throughout the constellation is definitely going to make sure not every fight is going to be in the same system.

    4. This change does favour larger entities because they will be able to keep a very large area of space covered by fleets to control the space. I honestly don't think you could ever devise a system that larger entities won't benefit from. Numeric superiority has historically proven to be the deciding factor.

    5. Although smaller entities will find it easier to attack some portion of a system it is going to take a lot of work to keep and maintain a nul-sec presence. This design demands dedicated presence for long periods of time. Which is the point of being there and having sov, it's still going to be a job doing that. This puts a floor under the kind of entity that can own space. It will require a minimum size for an entity to occupy sov and that minimum will tend to be fairly high. It will take dedicated man power to hold space.

    6. Smaller entities will be much easier to harass. If the present technique is to bore the opposition out of their sov, the new technique will be to bludgeon the smaller entity until they can't muster the will to show up anymore. I think they're both equally bad alternatives.

    7. Although this redesign effort is a great way to address some game play issues, I'm not sure whether sov is the thing we want to hold onto. Sov is 'a way' to address the grand scheme of being living deities in a space simulator. I'm not convinced it has to be the only way. From the point of view of ontology I'm not sure that sov should be the thing a capsuleer necessarily wants out of eternity. Ask yourself what that thing would be that you would want out of eternal life, how that would generate conflict and give us that to weave our web of deceit around. I'm not at all certain that sov would be the ultimate answer to that question.

    Other than that your work on EVE, your exemplary communication around it and all the exquisite hard work you put into making this a better place for everyone deserves nothing but our deepest respect and thanks.

    12 days to go. See you there.