These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev blog: Politics by Other Means: Sovereignty Phase Two

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
knobber Jobbler
State War Academy
Caldari State
#161 - 2015-03-03 16:49:05 UTC
So CCP, you've not really addressed the incentives for holding Sov, simply fighting for the sake of it isn't a proper conflict driver: see the rather dull area of EVE call nullsec.

It's a start I guess but:

Prime Time thing is a terrible idea, you'll see alliances start to lose their multinational flavour. If GSF sets prime time to US, what do all the EU guys do right? Must be a better option to scale this or opt out for other benefits, scale it base on alliance size.

This entosis thing, what happens if we get 5000 ceptors all with them on board? Wasn't this question asked at any point?

AFK cloaking - It's going to affect indices, for better or worse.
Barbaydos
Kraken Exploration and Janitorial Services
The Initiative.
#162 - 2015-03-03 16:49:39 UTC
Two step wrote:
Suggestions for addressing the timezone issues:

1) Expand the window to 8 hours
2) If you pick a 4 hour window, you also get a 2 hour window 10 hours from the end of your chosen window. This would mean that a US TZ window would have an opposite time that would be RUS friendly and an EU window would have AUS friendly times.


this would be better than the 4 hour window of DOOM they are proposing. ideally it would be vulnerable 23.5/7 but just take longer to reinforce like the FW system, that way you can promote more fight across a wider timezone and it also encouraged alliances to not become a specific TZ heavy and have little no other timezones playerwise
Nami Kumamato
Perkone
Caldari State
#163 - 2015-03-03 16:49:53 UTC
Why not just make it simple ?
Create- I dunno - a huge star-base that you can anchor a the frigging sun or whatever . If it gets destroyed it's no longer your system.
Occupancy will get you bonuses towards how hard it is to get destroyed etc. You can defend it with platform/batteries and active fleets patrolling.
The End.

Fornicate The Constabulary !
W Sherman Elric
Argentum Holdings
#164 - 2015-03-03 16:50:29 UTC
Two step wrote:
Suggestions for addressing the timezone issues:

1) Expand the window to 8 hours
2) If you pick a 4 hour window, you also get a 2 hour window 10 hours from the end of your chosen window. This would mean that a US TZ window would have an opposite time that would be RUS friendly and an EU window would have AUS friendly times.



yuk oh boy lets make this eu only alliance alarm clock for an AU TZ, not all alliances have strong presence in all three TZ's
Lena Lazair
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#165 - 2015-03-03 16:50:59 UTC
Altrue wrote:
The bad stuff:
[list]
  • Yay! Brave Collective will pick an US timezone and thanks to your new system, ensure that EU and AU get no chances to defend their space EVER. At least, with the current system we had the opportunity to actively prevent the first attack...Ugh Now all is left is the defense of station services, very exciting.

    • Or maybe Brave could split into multiple alliances for differing timezones that are loosely affiliated in a coalition but are much more independent and locally operated. And then maybe once in awhile those alliances might get bored and actually fight each other instead of blue-ing up half the map, or draw conflict from smaller groups that want to take on, say, only AU Brave but not the entirety of US/EU/AU Brave.

    Which, I think, was kind of the point. It's supposed to encourage these massive blocs to break up into smaller, localized units with people that actually PLAY TOGETHER in similar timezones, in space, with each other. Not just in name only.
    Adrie Atticus
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #166 - 2015-03-03 16:52:28 UTC
    the sargent wrote:
    It's funny, everyone tells CCP they want a occupancy based SOV system. When CCP comes up with a system that takes the basic concept of "occupancy" and uses it as a mechanic everyone start whining about how it will ruin everything. Seriously guys calm down if it doesn't work out guess what? it will be fixed in a couple of months because of the shorter release schedule. Give the system a chance first before going "IT'S THE END!"

    I mean seriously every time CCP changes something to do will null sec its "the end of null sec as we know it," and yes that is true but just because it's the end of one system doesn't mean the new system is going to be complete trash.

    Damn, sorry for the minor wall of text.


    Occupancy sov which has been asked for in multiple ways and venues implies that one needs to live in a system to even be able to claim the system. In this proposed one, no one needs to live there, they just need to orbit a few FW buttons to save the sov and keep trucking straight after that.

    Blobbing also won't go anywhere, spreading 3000 pilots to 7 systems is still over 400 pilots per button orbiting, no small entity will be able to even try to capture a system in this model. Toss in three dozen supers on that button and unless you're willing to get get all the supers in every system in the constellation to be dropped on you, you might not want to enter the plex.

    (Yes, using FW terms because this is exactly how FW works without the need to point a lazor beam at a floating box for 2 minutes prior to orbiting said button.)
    Soldarius
    Dreddit
    Test Alliance Please Ignore
    #167 - 2015-03-03 16:52:29 UTC
    Q: Once a capture event is started, are the Command Nodes available outside of the owning alliance's prime-time vulnerability, or are they locked out?

    I am officially coining the phrase Thunder-Zone (TZ), because sov warfare will soon be strictly limited to time zones rather than areas of space. The new Thunder-Zone is going to be late EU, early US, (Atlantic) obviously. Russian space will always be Russian. Same for AU.

    However, should a large alliance or coalition of alliances decide to alarm clock it, they can spam inties across an entire region to effectively reinforce all the things across an entire region in 10-40 minutes.

    The Entosis Link is an active module. I'm pretty sure the blog also stated that the Entosis Link requires a target lock. So having a 240km range means nothing if you can't lock that far.

    Or a small super-heavy alliance like PL or NC. can drop supers in a system and reinforce with those without ever firing a shot. As they are immune to EWAR, jamming them to break target locks will be neigh-on impossible. I see nothing stopping them from reinforcing with supers. They will work just as well so long as they stay alive. Not sure if worth the risk though.

    So the system, though significantly different on the surface, will not really change much, except for the station Freeporting. I really don't understand the point of that concept.

    http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
    iP0D
    Brutor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #168 - 2015-03-03 16:52:42 UTC
    the sargent wrote:
    It's funny, everyone tells CCP they want a occupancy based SOV system. When CCP comes up with a system that takes the basic concept of "occupancy" and uses it as a mechanic everyone start whining about how it will ruin everything. Seriously guys calm down if it doesn't work out guess what? it will be fixed in a couple of months because of the shorter release schedule. Give the system a chance first before going "IT'S THE END!"

    I mean seriously every time CCP changes something to do will null sec its "the end of null sec as we know it," and yes that is true but just because it's the end of one system doesn't mean the new system is going to be complete trash.

    Damn, sorry for the minor wall of text.


    That sounds like the typical stuff CCPians tell CSM and lurkers on IRC. Something which hasn't changed in over a decade, always the same story. You know we've had times where we had short release cycles before right? Always the Holy Grail of resource allocation in a company which is set to slowly lower the cost of development and maintenance ...

    Sov is one of those things you need to figure out on a behavioural level, and set out for it to last at least half of such a second decade. Why? because of resource allocations required, and because it's tied so innately into what makes EVE commercially feasible that simply taking the mechanical low key routes within a closed system never ends up as anything but a disaster.

    It's the end of null-sec as we know it, but the return of what we used to know - once upon a long ago. It's also indicative of a sense of necessity towards dumbing things down in order to make it easier to ... maintain.

    Which is another word than "develop".

    Don't presume the dev peeps are hearing from has a clue of the constraints set by the folks upstairs.
    Ned Thomas
    Sebiestor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #169 - 2015-03-03 16:53:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Ned Thomas
    Rowells wrote:
    ok before anyone else freekin says it, point me to the damn ceptor that can target out to 250km.


    Most I can get on a Crow is 162km, and that Crow would die to a mildly equipped house fly.

    EDIT: note, without boosts
    Lena Lazair
    Ministry of War
    Amarr Empire
    #170 - 2015-03-03 16:53:21 UTC
    EvilweaselFinance wrote:
    we have to create a strategic mining division to protect important systems are you ******* kidding me

    nullsec mining has been broken for ages, go look at the price of mega and zyd and then think about why on earth mining should play a role here


    Getting people into space doing all variety of activities is the point. So yes, mining ops and industry members not being treated as second class citizens. Imagine that?

    That said, yeah nullsec mining itself needs a fix to make that more than just a gimmick. But, I mean... perfect opportunity for the Rorq to be rebalanced into something awesome for just this purpose, right?
    Helios Panala
    #171 - 2015-03-03 16:53:44 UTC
    Alliances need to be able to set 'prime-time' on a per structure basis so that groups spread across multiple timezones can be given content, at the very least you can have your different TZs defending different borders.

    Other than that looks good to me.
    iP0D
    Brutor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #172 - 2015-03-03 16:54:15 UTC
    Ned Thomas wrote:
    Rowells wrote:
    ok before anyone else freekin says it, point me to the damn ceptor that can target out to 250km.


    Most I can get on a Crow is 162km, and that Crow would die to a mildly equipped house fly.


    [Hyena, Pause Butan]
    Damage Control II
    Overdrive Injector System II
    Overdrive Injector System II

    Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
    Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script
    Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script
    Medium Shield Extender II

    Entosis Link II
    [empty high slot]
    [empty high slot]

    Small Auxiliary Thrusters II
    Small Auxiliary Thrusters II
    Amely Miles
    Second Exile
    #173 - 2015-03-03 16:54:18 UTC
    Jack Haydn wrote:
    So you fortified the need for even bigger coalition building. The one who can field the most players in fast, agile ships is the one who can lock down the most systems (for either attack or defense) and run the most concurrent RFs or Command Node takeovers.

    If you're a small timer, you'll get crushed by the coalitions who will always have more people available to chase and cockblock you, all while running their own Entosii in the meantime.

    Pretty chastening.


    they say in the blog

    "the system considers every member of the owning alliance to be defenders and every other player to be attackers"

    This means bigger Alliances not bigger Coalitions as the Coalition that comes to save your Sov will then be considered a "Attacker"

    As I slipped my finger slowly inside her hole, I could immediately feel it getting wetter and wetter.

    I took my finger back out and within seconds she was going down on me.

    "I really need a new boat," I thought to myself.
    Komodo Askold
    Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
    Silent Company
    #174 - 2015-03-03 16:54:35 UTC
    I can't, and won't, talk about these Sov changes due to my complete lack of experience on the matter.

    However, I am very intrigued about that Entosis Link. Does it mean we will finally be able to hack abandoned POS at W-Space? =3
    ImageQuest
    Standings Consortium
    #175 - 2015-03-03 16:54:45 UTC
    W Sherman Elric wrote:
    [quote=Two step]Suggestions for addressing the timezone issues:




    yuk oh boy lets make this eu only alliance alarm clock for an AU TZ, not all alliances have strong presence in all three TZ's


    I guess thats why it's publicly visible and takes 96hours to be swapped. If you are invading you will invade system that has presets you like.
    HeXxploiT
    Doomheim
    #176 - 2015-03-03 16:54:46 UTC
    If I travel half way around the earth to conquer an enemies territory guess what...i'm fighting in their timezone. I'm not going too **** & moan from the trench that it's 3am my time. Remember guys Eve is Real!
    Looks like a lot of thought went into this new system. This is really going to shake things up. Will be interesting to see how the major power blocks adapt. I love the idea that individual pilots and small gangs are given more opportunity to do big things and make a name for themselves.
    Lena Lazair
    Ministry of War
    Amarr Empire
    #177 - 2015-03-03 16:55:27 UTC
    Anhenka wrote:
    Is the solution to just "go find another alliance"?


    Yes. Go find another alliance that actually plays actively during the same time as you. I'm pretty sure this sort of balkanization/fracturing of massive blocs is ENTIRELY THE POINT.
    Mo'Chuisle
    The Executives
    #178 - 2015-03-03 16:55:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Mo'Chuisle
    How the ******* **** can anyone think up a new sovereignty concept that relies on a four hour prime time window per day for the only interaction between players and not stop and scrap the whole system at that point?

    You have to be functionally ******** to not realize that the moment you introduce that prime time window, even if the rest of your system was the greatest new change to eve in ever (and, oh my, it is not, it is more like the worst concept through up by people who clearly have no idea what benefits large blocks and how make smaller groups more competitive), that you should stop yourself and clearly start over from scratch.

    Have fun playing with your own πέος from now on until eternity small aussie groups Big smile
    Proton Stars
    Aliastra
    Gallente Federation
    #179 - 2015-03-03 16:56:38 UTC
    why are sov bears not shooting everything in jita yet?
    Nami Kumamato
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #180 - 2015-03-03 16:57:39 UTC
    Also,
    Why did you have to go and create a new gimmick when hacking was there already ? (just to tie it to the Drifter lore? )
    Why not allow those things to be hacked as we do now in explo ? This way maybe more of us "vagrants" will find a home and reason in a corp.

    Fornicate The Constabulary !