These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Market Discussions

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Plex Prices

First post
Author
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#301 - 2015-02-05 02:40:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Market McSelling Alt wrote:


Not really, because to most people AUR is worthless, it would only become worth something if it were tied to game time.


You could populate a large percentile with the "Most people", but that does not mean the "FEW people" who have large stashes of money (guess who plays heavy PLEX markets games?) are intelligent enough to have been able to achieve those large stashes of money (duh!).
This "intelligent enough" factor would also push them into studying what happens when you store egregious amounts of wealth inside a depreciable currency (ISK).
I am not sure it's necessary for an economy to function, but "humanity" seem adamant into saving their efforts and wealth by looking for "stronghold assets" like noble metals in RL. How many EvE stronghold assets are there besides the ONE item that is worth a fixed, dependable amount of the highest value commodity of all: time?
What'd be the second best, if the ONE item is removed? What can buy time then?

The answer is what investors will turn into. And then traders.



Also, if CCP has plans to ever cut the umbilical cord ISK <=> game time (be it through PLEX or AUR), they are better thinking 20 or 30 times before such decision is made.

Imagine unleashing the tremendous, unstoppable earthquake-tsunami ISK equivalent of all the PLEX existing in game, onto the relatively feeble "regular" EvE markets. Low tier minerals and ice markets could possibily carry on, but the others? You'd have untold amounts of liquidity flooding everything, novel "market makers" manipulating stuff with unprecedented power.
erg cz
Federal Jegerouns
#302 - 2015-02-05 09:37:50 UTC
Alexi Stokov wrote:
If they simple had PLEX go worthless, how many pissed of people would there be?


As far as I understood you will be able to turn certain number of PLEXes into AUR (they look for balance atm). So only pissed players will be those speculators, who stock pile really high amount of PLEXes. They do not create intended game content and CCP see this as problem. In about 1,5 year ago CCP got real money for 2 PLEXes for each destroyed item, worth 1bilion ISK. Cause PLEX was like 500 milions. Not long ago it jumped to 1 bilion, so players need to sell only one PLEX - real money for CCP was cutted to 50 %. It seems to be market manipulation and now CCP fires back, killing speculators.
Alex Grison
Grison Universal
#303 - 2015-02-06 23:40:13 UTC
CCP wants em nice and low. But it no workey.

yes

erg cz
Federal Jegerouns
#304 - 2015-02-24 11:58:37 UTC
Alex Grison wrote:
CCP wants em nice and low. But it no workey.



Well, it does workey, though not that quick. PLEX price still dropping: http://www.eve-markets.net/detail?typeid=29668#history
Koniforous
Tauren Transit
#305 - 2015-02-24 18:57:03 UTC
They usually drop after an update, and return or spike a couple weeks later.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#306 - 2015-02-24 19:33:18 UTC
erg cz wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
I think they should go one step farther. Remove PLEX, period.

....

Now about the PLEX price: I noticed it dropping over the weekend. It seems odd it would be dropping. No PLEX sale, some extra demand due to FanFest, yet it is dropping. Are we entering a new era?


Smart traders sell PLEX before they become useless pixel item, due to AUR changes you mentioned.

If CCP were to remove PLEX, and use AUR for buying game time, I'm sure they would also replace every PLEX in the game with 3500 AUR. PLEX would never be a worthless pixel item, they would just go away, and your inflation hedge would become AUR.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#307 - 2015-02-24 19:34:34 UTC
Koniforous wrote:
They usually drop after an update, and return or spike a couple weeks later.



lol no they dont, they usually spike at the same time as an expansion due to returning players and players hording them to hedge against other assets reducing in value.

The price has been falling for a while. Faster until the holidays, and slowly now.

This is probably the effect of loss of population in the game. It looks like we are down about 1% each month since Christmas.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.

Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#308 - 2015-02-24 19:36:37 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
erg cz wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
I think they should go one step farther. Remove PLEX, period.

....

Now about the PLEX price: I noticed it dropping over the weekend. It seems odd it would be dropping. No PLEX sale, some extra demand due to FanFest, yet it is dropping. Are we entering a new era?


Smart traders sell PLEX before they become useless pixel item, due to AUR changes you mentioned.

If CCP were to remove PLEX, and use AUR for buying game time, I'm sure they would also replace every PLEX in the game with 3500 AUR. PLEX would never be a worthless pixel item, they would just go away, and your inflation hedge would become AUR.



But AUR has no inherent value in game. The move to AUR removes PLEX as a place to store ISK, instead it would be a place to store AUR which would have it's own conversion to ISK based on what players would pay.

So in essence, Plex would get competition from AUR if one could use AUR for game services too. Just moves Plex out of in game markets and on to an out of game market where it belongs.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.

Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#309 - 2015-02-24 19:45:23 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
erg cz wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
I think they should go one step farther. Remove PLEX, period.

....

Now about the PLEX price: I noticed it dropping over the weekend. It seems odd it would be dropping. No PLEX sale, some extra demand due to FanFest, yet it is dropping. Are we entering a new era?


Smart traders sell PLEX before they become useless pixel item, due to AUR changes you mentioned.

If CCP were to remove PLEX, and use AUR for buying game time, I'm sure they would also replace every PLEX in the game with 3500 AUR. PLEX would never be a worthless pixel item, they would just go away, and your inflation hedge would become AUR.



But AUR has no inherent value in game. The move to AUR removes PLEX as a place to store ISK, instead it would be a place to store AUR which would have it's own conversion to ISK based on what players would pay.

So in essence, Plex would get competition from AUR if one could use AUR for game services too. Just moves Plex out of in game markets and on to an out of game market where it belongs.

Right, so they would have to give AUR value. Remove PLEX, replace all of them with AUR, then sell game time for AUR. The rate would be 3 days for 350 AUR. They CCP would also need to introduce a market allowing players to trade AUR for ISK with each other.

In the end, we would have the same situation as we do now: You can get AUR for real money and then sell for ISK, or you can use ISK to buy AUR form another player, then turn it in for game time.

The big difference: We eliminate a redundant currency: PLEX. AUR and ISK are all we really need to make the current EVE economy work.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

Alexi Stokov
State War Academy
Caldari State
#310 - 2015-02-24 20:06:27 UTC
Isn't the only way to get AUR is by converting PLEX?
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#311 - 2015-02-24 20:56:53 UTC
Alexi Stokov wrote:
Isn't the only way to get AUR is by converting PLEX?



Everything will change if CCP gets their way

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.

erg cz
Federal Jegerouns
#312 - 2015-02-25 09:38:51 UTC
Koniforous wrote:
They usually drop after an update, and return or spike a couple weeks later.


Did you actually checked the link I posted? PLEX value drops over last 90 days and keep going that way. No real spikes.

Vincent Athena wrote:
I'm sure they would also replace every PLEX in the game with 3500 AUR.


I am not so sure about "every PLEX". Quota for conversion can be big, yes, but it is still qouta. Even if CCP will agree to allow you convert 100 PLEX as of now, there still be ppl with larger PLEX count. And quota is still under concideration. It can be even lower to make more PLEX speculators rage quit.
Koniforous
Tauren Transit
#313 - 2015-02-25 13:48:05 UTC
erg cz wrote:
Koniforous wrote:
They usually drop after an update, and return or spike a couple weeks later.


Did you actually checked the link I posted? PLEX value drops over last 90 days and keep going that way. No real spikes.

I did not check your link. I have made the majority of my wealth from plex flipping, including riding the waves the follow a patch, and I have my own personal experience and wallet to prove my statement for me, I'm not really interested if you disagree with me or mot because I know my investment practices in plex and plex behavior have proven correct. Prices are high before a patch (when I sell to have the liquid needed for...), quickly plummet a few weeks after a patch (when I buy), supply is choked and briefly prices spike (when I sell), and then normalize to just before patch prices and continue on with their downward trend.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#314 - 2015-02-25 16:17:28 UTC
Koniforous wrote:
erg cz wrote:
Koniforous wrote:
They usually drop after an update, and return or spike a couple weeks later.


Did you actually checked the link I posted? PLEX value drops over last 90 days and keep going that way. No real spikes.

I did not check your link. I have made the majority of my wealth from plex flipping, including riding the waves the follow a patch, and I have my own personal experience and wallet to prove my statement for me, I'm not really interested if you disagree with me or mot because I know my investment practices in plex and plex behavior have proven correct. Prices are high before a patch (when I sell to have the liquid needed for...), quickly plummet a few weeks after a patch (when I buy), supply is choked and briefly prices spike (when I sell), and then normalize to just before patch prices and continue on with their downward trend.



You can say that all you want to, but evidence from API is to the contrary. Other than the summer slow rise there has been negative pressure on plex for a year. No spikes, no dips from patches. Historically before that there are spikes AT patch dates and after from returning players, but not before and certainly no crashes after a patch.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.

Koniforous
Tauren Transit
#315 - 2015-02-25 18:12:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Koniforous
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Koniforous wrote:
erg cz wrote:
Koniforous wrote:
They usually drop after an update, and return or spike a couple weeks later.


Did you actually checked the link I posted? PLEX value drops over last 90 days and keep going that way. No real spikes.

I did not check your link. I have made the majority of my wealth from plex flipping, including riding the waves the follow a patch, and I have my own personal experience and wallet to prove my statement for me, I'm not really interested if you disagree with me or mot because I know my investment practices in plex and plex behavior have proven correct. Prices are high before a patch (when I sell to have the liquid needed for...), quickly plummet a few weeks after a patch (when I buy), supply is choked and briefly prices spike (when I sell), and then normalize to just before patch prices and continue on with their downward trend.



You can say that all you want to, but evidence from API is to the contrary. Other than the summer slow rise there has been negative pressure on plex for a year. No spikes, no dips from patches. Historically before that there are spikes AT patch dates and after from returning players, but not before and certainly no crashes after a patch.

I must have found a market leprechaun then, turning what a graph says should be losses into billions of profit. This can only mean one thing: Half life 3 confirmed!
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#316 - 2015-02-26 04:44:44 UTC
erg cz wrote:
Koniforous wrote:
They usually drop after an update, and return or spike a couple weeks later.


Did you actually checked the link I posted? PLEX value drops over last 90 days and keep going that way. No real spikes.

Vincent Athena wrote:
I'm sure they would also replace every PLEX in the game with 3500 AUR.


I am not so sure about "every PLEX". Quota for conversion can be big, yes, but it is still qouta. Even if CCP will agree to allow you convert 100 PLEX as of now, there still be ppl with larger PLEX count. And quota is still under concideration. It can be even lower to make more PLEX speculators rage quit.

No quota. Every PLEX. CCP would do nothing less.

At one time, after PLEX but before AURUM and the NEX store, people were talking about "mili-PLEX" a way to divide up the PLEX to allow for purchase of items from the NEX store that are worth less than one PLEX. We did not get mili-PLEX, we got AUR. But it serves the same purpose.

Having a "quota" would be like replacing $1000 bills with $20 bills, but only for the first 100 bills. It would just not be acceptable.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

erg cz
Federal Jegerouns
#317 - 2015-02-26 08:22:15 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:


Having a "quota" would be like replacing $1000 bills with $1000 bills, but only for the first 100 bills.

Fixed that for you.

Vincent Athena wrote:

It would just not be acceptable.

by any PLEX speculator. Thats right. But for ordinary PLEX producers / users like me it would be absolutely OK. Cause I rearely have more than 5 PLEX in my posession. PLEX speculators do not create any usefull game content but rather abuse feature, that was intended solely for quick ISK injection / possibility to play for free. So there will be no surprise if CCP decides to get rid of those via PLEX conversion quota? PLEX speculators rage quite, game economy stabilize, CCP will get 20 euro for one replaced megatrone navy issue instead of 10 as it was around new year.
Luthias Austrene
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#318 - 2015-02-26 13:28:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Luthias Austrene
EDIT: wrong thread
Alexi Stokov
State War Academy
Caldari State
#319 - 2015-02-26 15:33:51 UTC
The only way to stop PLEX speculation is to peg it to a specific isk value, say 500 million isk. No matter what region you are in PLEX is the same value on the market
erg cz
Federal Jegerouns
#320 - 2015-02-26 16:08:09 UTC
Alexi Stokov wrote:
The only way to stop PLEX speculation is to peg it to a specific isk value, say 500 million isk. No matter what region you are in PLEX is the same value on the market


I think it would open door for black market and RMT. Since PLEX is not generated but injected into the game by players.