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Plex Prices

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Author
motie one
Secret Passage
#721 - 2015-09-23 05:26:49 UTC  |  Edited by: motie one
Zihao wrote:
How do you quantify "excess," and why is it desirable to stifle this ambiguous thing?



Excess is where the primary and intended use of a good or product ceases to function in the intended manner.
If the velocity of the rate of exchange into pilot services, has decreased to the point that these are only a secondary use for the product then the alternative uses (wealth storage, and speculative gambling) are "in excess"

Any excess or deficit in player produced commodities are largely self correcting, demand can shift, prices will adjust as production waxes and wanes, player actions, lead to corrections. An excess in any one area, eventually balances.

Pilots services are Unique, player actions on their own are unable to balance, actions taken by other players. If thousands of plex are frozen in long term wealth storage, players are unable to mine or manufacture or seek out more to rebalance the reduced velocity and availability. They can be considered in excess in those areas, and in defecit in availability to turn into pilots services such as licence extention or multiple player training.

This cannot be self correcting for this product. The mechanisms are not available to players. plex holds a unique place in the economy, and players have ceased to remember this and are treating it like any other item. This is not a sustainable expectation.

Plex was not designed, or suitable as a means of long term wealth storage, with an ever increasing expectation of gains.

This is the role of player produced commodities.

Plex was designed as a means,to sell a commodity for real money, that in the end, possibly afer passing through another players hands, would be used to purchase pilot services. It is now ceasing to fulfill that role due to the above.
Leetmcfeet
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#722 - 2015-09-23 07:30:16 UTC
Motie people are still putting newly introduced plex onto the market. Players are still obtaining and consuming plex. Players holding onto plex - does not stop others from introducing new plex into the game. There is no shortage of PLEX being consumed and leaving the economy as many 'wealth reserves' were converted into aurum to pick up skins; to make use of power of two promotion etc.

Within this thread exists testimony of players purchasing and putting plex into the market. The volume of PLEX trading hands is large; there is a healthy amount in circulation for this time of year. PLEX is a player produced comodity; it only enters the eve universe when an individual pays a premium in real world currency for it to enter the market.

The demand for plex is ever increasing as EVE ages and its price in part correlates with this demand. Your disatisfaction with other players sometimes dealing with plex in a fashion you deem outside of its expected usage; does not change any of these facts.
motie one
Secret Passage
#723 - 2015-09-23 07:40:25 UTC  |  Edited by: motie one
Leetmcfeet wrote:
Motie people are still putting newly introduced plex onto the market. Players are still obtaining and consuming plex. Players holding onto plex - does not stop others from introducing new plex into the game. There is no shortage of PLEX being consumed and leaving the economy as many 'wealth reserves' were converted into aurum to pick up skins; to make use of power of two promotion etc.

Within this thread exists testimony of players purchasing and putting plex into the market. The volume of PLEX trading hands is large; there is a healthy amount in circulation for this time of year. PLEX is a player produced comodity; it only enters the eve universe when an individual pays a premium in real world currency for it to enter the market.

The demand for plex is ever increasing as EVE ages and its price in part correlates with this demand. Your disatisfaction with other players sometimes dealing with plex in a fashion you deem outside of its expected usage; does not change any of these facts.


Whilst people are certainly redeeming plex into Pilot services and CCP authorised real world services and products, the percentage of Plex redeemed in reletionship to the Plex in circulation is the matter in discussion.Volumes traded in Jita etc are irrelevant, it is the conversion rate and velocity of the path from Introduction to redemption.Traders swapping plex between themselves, is not velocity. Whilst it looks like activity, and would be for player produced commodities, it is meaningless for plex.

If as you contend there is a vibrant and active velocity of Plex right the way through from production to final consumption, then any price imaginable is acceptable, 1,3,5 100 billion! It doesn't matter. The game would be Vibrant, People would be investing in additional alts, additional pilot training, and concurrent players would be rising, and the Velocity of money would be increasing.

If as it appears this is not the case, then there is an issue.

CCP are the only people who can know this definitively, but current observations in the game, that anyone can witness, does indicate that the situation is anything but healthy.
But naturally there are many with a vested interest in "bubbling" assets, and as there is no other way for players to purchase plex for isk, there is nothing to stop that process in players hands, other than reducing their need to play along, by unsubbing alts, and ceasing dual pilot training. Being as Plex is not just another commodity, It is NOT player produced, It is Produced by CCP, out of game and sold to players. Many are directly redeemed,for services, and never make it near the game markets. Calling it player produced, is inaccurate in every way, and under no circumstances, can it be described as a player produced commodity, such as minerals, and production of ships or modules.

There is only one source of a solution to the collapse of the velocity and rate of the path from introduction to redemption of plex, and That rests with CCP

Whilst you may very well believe this is a bubble that will never burst, others are likely paying the price for that illusion in the effect on the game.
Leetmcfeet
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#724 - 2015-09-23 08:12:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Leetmcfeet
Explain the link between a variable amount of plex being stored and how you feel CCP must intervene. I am having trouble following the jump. For what reason do you feel plex which is not in circulation is affecting anything when it does not exist as far as the market is concerned? Is it that you are concerned players are paying more for plex than they might have if all existing plex were available to the market at all times until consumption? If so; of what matter is it if PLEX costs more so long as players are still buying it?

Your theorized case of people quitting is not supported by any statistics. Every year players complain about the winter prices of PLEX- Every year the doomsayers suggest they will quit the game - In reality what appears to happen is they shed extra weight (unsub alt accounts) and resub those accounts as ISK and conditions permit. What does however happen is more players discontinue subbing via PLEX and instead pay for their subscription via credit card which allows CCP to realise any potential profits sooner rather than later (which is the case with consumables gamers purchase whose real world costs are not realised until the consumables are actually consumed).

Simply put; I don't agree that players are quitting in droves due to ISK cost of plex. I don't think CCP is losing any money with plex being 1.2B as opposed to say 300m. Should you be able to better support a link between damage being done to the game and the amount of plex being stored than one previously mentioned idea might be of some value. As far as bubbles are concerned; I will repeat once more

Plex goes up and down throughout the year. over a period of multiple years plex rises, the demand for plex has increased each year (CCP stated such). But no; plex will not die; there are yearly variances in price but it will always go up until a point where which the game dies.
motie one
Secret Passage
#725 - 2015-09-23 08:20:32 UTC  |  Edited by: motie one
Leetmcfeet wrote:
Explain the link between a variable amount of plex being stored and how you feel CCP must intervene. I am having trouble following the jump. For what reason do you feel plex which is not in circulation is affecting anything when it does not exist as far as the market is concerned? Is it that you are concerned players are paying more for plex than they might have if all existing plex were available to the market at all times until consumption? If so; of what matter is it if PLEX costs more so long as players are still buying it?

Your theorized case of people quitting is not supported by any statistics. Every year players complain about the winter prices of PLEX- Every year the doomsayers suggest they will quit the game - In reality what appears to happen is they shed extra weight (unsub alt accounts) and resub those accounts as ISK and conditions permit. What does however happen is more players discontinue subbing via PLEX and instead pay for their subscription via credit card which allows CCP to realise any potential profits sooner rather than later (which is the case with consumables gamers purchase whose real world costs are not realised until the consumables are actually consumed).

Simply put; I don't agree that players are quitting in droves due to ISK cost of plex. I don't think CCP is losing any money with plex being 1.2B as opposed to say 300m. Should you be able to better support a link between damage being done to the game and the amount of plex being stored than one previously mentioned idea might be of some value.

Plex ultimately having an experation date - at which point it would be automatically added to the game time on the account where which its stored - is an interesting idea and might warrant further exploration. The other ideas I have seen presented can have catastrophic economic consequences as far as I am concerned. Seeing a 1 year experiation date added to all current and future plex to allow a years time for people to move the product; might be reasonable if it would have a positive effect for CCP. This again is an interesting concept to consider for the sport of it - as to suggest why not develope that idea and see where it leads- what the drawbacks; benefits and consequences could possibly be.


Clearly, If you do not believe that there is a link between the limited liquidity of Plex having an effect on the amount of redemptions of plex within the game, then there is little I can say to change your conclusions.

Let me ask you, do you see no connection between this and the reduction of concurrent players, the unsubbing of alts, the reduction of multiple pilot training and the velocity of isk in the economy? The very reasons for Plex to exist? This isk for example would be buying these services and is currently not for most players. It is just padding users balances. Waiting for the day when actually buying plex on the market to use, once again made some sort of sense.

If you cannot see this just wait for CCP to act to rebalance the serious imbalance, and then reconsider.
Leetmcfeet
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#726 - 2015-09-23 08:30:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Leetmcfeet
motie one wrote:


Let me ask you, do you see no connection between this and the reduction of concurrent players, the unsubbing of alts, the reduction of multiple pilot training and the velocity of isk in the economy? This isk for example would be buying these services and is currently not for most players. It is just padding users balances. Waiting.

If you cannot see this just wait for CCP to act to rebalance the serious imbalance, and then reconsider.


You're attributing a loss of concurent players to PLEX which is simply not true. Phoebe; Sov and various forms of bitching have lowered concurent players in the cases where players are actually leaving the game- in other cases people are cutting the fat until a time where which they find use in their alts and sub them again. The game has undergone massive changes which fundamentally completely change the way the game is played. People left because they were unhappy and because when your friends quit - you quit. When you've had your group for several years and people leave; you leave too because you are left with nothing. Those players may or may not return; but PLEX will hardly have anything to do with it.
motie one
Secret Passage
#727 - 2015-09-23 08:33:36 UTC
I will answer you attempt at distraction seperately.
You raise the suggestion "for sport" as you put ir to place a time limit for plex.
Whilst it would remove plex as a long term storage, for that plex, it would simply be retraded for a fresh one in the market, and the whole market would have to be redesigned to display the remaining life.
As you know that will never happen.
Nice attempt to waste time.
motie one
Secret Passage
#728 - 2015-09-23 08:36:04 UTC  |  Edited by: motie one
Leetmcfeet wrote:
motie one wrote:


Let me ask you, do you see no connection between this and the reduction of concurrent players, the unsubbing of alts, the reduction of multiple pilot training and the velocity of isk in the economy? This isk for example would be buying these services and is currently not for most players. It is just padding users balances. Waiting.

If you cannot see this just wait for CCP to act to rebalance the serious imbalance, and then reconsider.


You're attributing a loss of concurent players to PLEX which is simply not true. Phoebe; Sov and various forms of bitching have lowered concurent players in the cases where players are actually leaving the game- in other cases people are cutting the fat until a time where which they find use in their alts and sub them again. The game has undergone massive changes which fundamentally completely change the way the game is played. People left because they were unhappy and because when your friends quit - you quit. When you've had your group for several years and people leave; you leave too because you are left with nothing. Those players may or may not return; but PLEX will hardly have anything to do with it.



Please tell me how any human being, in their right mind will use their reserves to keep alts or multiple training going, on a regular basis! At the current vastly inflated value of plex.

Because most people are rational.
The actions are as we witness.
Yes, they cut the fat.

And there is no guarantee, those alts, that training, or those people will suddenly discover their mothers credit card.
People reasonably will pay for their mains, but their alts? Hibernated. And all the extras that people get tempted into paying for them, is lost to CCP

And do not ignore human nature, each month, people consider, "is this worth playing?" "Is it worth playing for?" "Do I need this industry/scanning alt?" Now Plex available for a sensible amount of isk, will get them over that hump, let them keep going until they have a good day, plex at 40 hours grinding for some, Just to dual train, or keep an alt alive, does not exactly encourage them to hang around. " Good riddance " I read players saying " We didn't want those lightweights anyway? " " no poors! Others earn 300million an hour! Plex is cheap! Buy now or Get out!" Whilst such ideas are intended to support the price pumping of Plex I think that CCP's accountants might just disagree.

Let me repeat, Pilots services, as a class are different to every other commodity in Eve, their existence is existential to the prosperity of CCP and they will not permit them to be manipulated and distorted either deliberately or through misunderstanding their nature as a tool intended to be redeemed , indefinitely. To think otherwise assumes stupidity on behalf of CCP, and to believe they are incapable of acting in both their own best interests and the health of the game.

If this affects peoples ability to pump and dump, there will be little sympathy.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#729 - 2015-09-23 08:37:04 UTC
Oh, this thread is getting salty. I may have to start reading it again.
Leetmcfeet
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#730 - 2015-09-23 09:07:28 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Atomic Dove
For whatever reason you cannot understand PLEX is worth more than 1.2B isk. its your inexperience and towards matters regarding economics; demand and any number of related facets. As such you are in for a very dissapointing time with EVE - because what you want - is not going to happen period

Plex will rise year in and year out and will not cease to rise on a yearly basis until the game dies. Your unsupported bubble theory where the sky falls because plex is at a value more than its worth - is ridiculous. Its price is within normal bounds for this year. Rises in winter; Falls in summer. Its not the housing bubble; its not tulips its not the credit crunch. This is EVE love it or hate it.

*Snip*, please remain civil when posting towards all members of the eve community - ISD Atomic Dove
motie one
Secret Passage
#731 - 2015-09-23 09:11:23 UTC  |  Edited by: motie one
Leetmcfeet wrote:
For whatever reason you cannot understand PLEX is worth more than 1.2B isk. its yout inexperience and ineptitude towards matters regarding economics; demand and any number of related facets. As such you are in for a very dissapointing time with EVE - because what you want - is not going to happen period

Plex will rise year in and year out and will not cease to rise on a yearly basis until the game dies. Your unsupported bubble theory where the sky falls because plex is at a value more than its worth - is ridiculous. Its price is within normal bounds for this year. Rises in winter; Falls in summer. Its not the housing bubble; its not tulips its not the credit crunch. This is EVE love it or hate it.



Oh, is this where you write me another mail, telling me that I am new? Wrong. I am a student and don't understand economics? Wrong and wrong, and I shouldn't argue with my betters?

Yes, I know, I know, you cannot understand why anyone would possibly disagree that pumping plex into the stratosphere is a great idea, and so long as you get rich who cares anyway?

I know it is a shock to you, but it may be possible that people with a lifetimes experience may not agree with you?

If you wish to pump and dump things, feel free, just play with player produced commodities, like minerals or ships, Play with CCP's income tools however at your peril. It will end in tears.
Leetmcfeet
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#732 - 2015-09-23 09:21:10 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Atomic Dove
motie one wrote:


Oh, is this where you write me another mail, telling me that I am new? Wrong. I am a student and don't understand economics? Wrong and wrong, and I shouldn't argue with my betters?


sic:

"You are dealing with people; some of whom have studied EVE onlines economy for several years. Still others believe the sky is falling and will say to all doom is here and the world will surely crumble. You are combating an economy which has been molded over a decade - with little to no knowledge or experience in the area and an inability to seperate our world from the real world. If the real world suffers economic collapse; it recovers. If EVE suffers collapse it ceases to exist as it can no longer make payroll.

The ideas you have forumulated are very short sighted and based on a lack of understanding of EVE - I can see you don't have the knowledge; experience or dedication the EVE staff consists of. your 101 course might be the beggining of a life of knowledge and attunement in the way of real world economies and you will likely pick up bits along the way which would allow you to better understand our economy - but a decade from now you will laugh at your self and what little you knew and how shortsighted you were. I am not saying you need to complete your doctorate before you comment; but realise you are competing against doctoral level knowledge of real world professionals. You no doubt know of EVEs fame and its reliance on economists - on world renown economists whose work here is well regarded and respected.

If you want to tackle the issue at least think about it for a few months for a few hours each day; because you are fighting a school of thought which it was built on; that studied the economy every day for just short of a decade. A paid professional in the field whose work was EVE; whose joy was EVE - whose life was EVE. If you want to present ideas; present ideas that work in eve and cut the rhetoric. Whatever you do; don't cite examples from last semester; last year or what you picked up paying attention in class. Because they don't support your ideas or oppiniions. Use good quality sources that are relevant - cite other occurances in EVE; in video games.

Tulips are the first page in the book of a different genre; try the last page - read that; than read the series on EVE; the volumes and collections - than read the work of Dr. Eyjolfur - Study EVE s economy and than come up with an idea. I am getting caught up in the lack of any relevant idea and the bad examples which do not demonstrate or assist your points - not the price of plex.

You are new to our game; Our Economy; I don't hold that against you - I hold your short sigtedness and inappropriate citing of sources against you. They don't forward your oppinion and exist as nothing more than gradeschool rhetoric. You should at least take a course on EVE before trying to fix or bankrupt it.
"
*Snip, please do not distribute personal or privileged information from another player, those types of actions are highly frowned upon. -ISD Atomic Dove
motie one
Secret Passage
#733 - 2015-09-23 09:23:12 UTC  |  Edited by: motie one
Leetmcfeet wrote:
[quote=motie one]

Oh, is this where you write me another mail, telling me that I am new? Wrong. I am a student and don't understand economics? Wrong and wrong, and I shouldn't argue with my betters?


:- mail deleted

Hmm I think you might want to remove that before ISD do.
I think I accurately paraphrased your mail? Hardly need to risk an ISD ban, for breaking the forum terms and conditions.
It is not acceptable to post the contents of private Emails on open eve forums, If I wished to share my career and personal details on the forums I would have done so myself. Please remove them immidiately.

And I still find your wild assumptions amusing.
Your mail hardly assisted your case.
^------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------^


The price of plex will either stay the same, rise or fall depending on How CCP see the market manipulation and storage, effecting the rate and velocity of redemption. There is no right market price. There is only the price, where plex from source to redemption flows freely. Pump that to oblivion and destroy plex as a pilots tool, and an economic tool for CCP

You appear to completely fail to understand that Plex is not just another market speculation toy, and has an important role to play in the game for players, and is of real Importance as a financial tool to CCP

Your attempts to pump the price will gain you only days, or weeks of benefit, and the losses you sustain, once they take action are likely to exceed your gains. But as every speculator who curses the unfairness of fate, You probably believe you can get out at the peak leaving others to take the losses. Remember, unless you can take a hedge on your risks, you are not trading, you are simply gambling.
ISD Atomic Dove
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#734 - 2015-09-23 10:48:20 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Atomic Dove
Good Evening,

While the subject of and resulting situations occurring with an inflated P.L.E.X. ISK price comparative to historical prices are certainly interesting please remember to remain civil upon this forum in your interactions with one another.

Debate each other points away, but remember that there are still rules to guide interactions so that everyone can have an enjoyable environment.
I have gone through and removed some inappropriate comments and made some general housekeeping for this thread

Keep it classy in here guys.

Quote:

2. Be respectful toward others at all times.

The purpose of the EVE Online forums is to provide a platform for exchange of ideas, and a venue for the discussion of EVE Online. Occasionally there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Forum users are expected to be courteous when disagreeing with others.

4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not conductive to the community spirit that CCP promotes. As such, this kind of behavior will not be tolerated.

9. Posting of personal information is prohibited.

The posting of personal information, or “doxxing”, including but not limited to personal contact numbers, email addresses, account names and passwords, home addresses and real life names is strictly prohibited. CCP respect the right of our players to privacy, and will not tolerate the divulging of real life personal details.

35. Posting of chat logs outside the Crime & Punishment forum channel is prohibited.

The posting of chat logs between player parties is prohibited on all forum channels of the EVE Online forums, with the exception of the Crime & Punishment Channel where they can be posted as part of stories in the Pirate Story Thread.

Specific rules regarding the omission of pilot names apply in this instance. Further details can be found in the rules stickies in the Crime & Punishment forum channel.

ISD Atomic Dove

Lieutenant

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Nornir Empire
#735 - 2015-09-23 17:06:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Elizabeth Norn
motie one wrote:
Let me ask you, do you see no connection between this and the reduction of concurrent players, the unsubbing of alts, the reduction of multiple pilot training and the velocity of isk in the economy? The very reasons for Plex to exist?


Is the reason PLEX exists not to combat unsanctioned RMT and the associated illegal activity that comes with that, such as credit card fraud and account hacking? Higher PLEX prices reduce the profitability of RMT.


motie one wrote:
Please tell me how any human being, in their right mind will use their reserves to keep alts or multiple training going, on a regular basis! At the current vastly inflated value of plex.


If they can use the characters on an account to earn more than the cost of PLEX per month, paying for that account with PLEX sounds pretty rational to me assuming they're happy to spend their time to do so.

motie one wrote:
Let me repeat, Pilots services, as a class are different to every other commodity in Eve, their existence is existential to the prosperity of CCP and they will not permit them to be manipulated and distorted either deliberately or through misunderstanding their nature as a tool intended to be redeemed , indefinitely.


So why haven't they done anything to permanently reduce the price? They've visibly done more to increase the prices, if anything.

https://youtu.be/w2hsqEvPGWQ?t=21m15s

CCP Dr.EyjoG wrote:
So I do reserve the rights that if we feel the market's not representing a good, efficient market at any given time we will intervene, but I always know and feel that this is not the way to go for any long term stability. A price is a price. People have been posting on the internet, "Ah wait until price reaches a billion". Why a billion? That's low. Serenity prices are 3.6 billion per PLEX, yeah. What is the right price? This is not the show of what's the right price, right? [Audience member: "There is no right price"]. There is no right price, you're learning. Nice to have these repeat customers coming over and over again, so I can know that in ten years time my message will have been learned and the system will behave as I want to.


I should probably start taking notes so I can keep up with this thread Blink.
motie one
Secret Passage
#736 - 2015-09-23 17:19:08 UTC
Elizabeth Norn wrote:
motie one wrote:
Let me ask you, do you see no connection between this and the reduction of concurrent players, the unsubbing of alts, the reduction of multiple pilot training and the velocity of isk in the economy? The very reasons for Plex to exist?


Is the reason PLEX exists not to combat unsanctioned RMT and the associated illegal activity that comes with that, such as credit card fraud and account hacking? Higher PLEX prices reduce the profitability of RMT.


motie one wrote:
Please tell me how any human being, in their right mind will use their reserves to keep alts or multiple training going, on a regular basis! At the current vastly inflated value of plex.


If they can use the characters on an account to earn more than the cost of PLEX per month, paying for that account with PLEX sounds pretty rational to me assuming they're happy to spend their time to do so.

motie one wrote:
Let me repeat, Pilots services, as a class are different to every other commodity in Eve, their existence is existential to the prosperity of CCP and they will not permit them to be manipulated and distorted either deliberately or through misunderstanding their nature as a tool intended to be redeemed , indefinitely.


So why haven't they done anything to permanently reduce the price? They've visibly done more to increase the prices, if anything.

https://youtu.be/w2hsqEvPGWQ?t=21m15s

CCP Dr.EyjoG wrote:
So I do reserve the rights that if we feel the market's not representing a good, efficient market at any given time we will intervene, but I always know and feel that this is not the way to go for any long term stability. A price is a price. People have been posting on the internet, "Ah wait until price reaches a billion". Why a billion? That's low. Serenity prices are 3.6 billion per PLEX, yeah. What is the right price? This is not the show of what's the right price, right? [Audience member: "There is no right price"]. There is no right price, you're learning. Nice to have these repeat customers coming over and over again, so I can know that in ten years time my message will have been learned and the system will behave as I want to.


I should probably start taking notes so I can keep up with this thread Blink.


You missed the bit where I said there is no right price, there is either a good rate of conversion right through the system from entering the game to redemption or there is not, the price will settle so long as tere are no blockages such as wealth storage or manipulation of the item.

When the rate slows to levels where plex is only redeemed as a secondary item and is mainly used for other uses, THEN action needs to be taken. If the rate if redemption is active and healthy and a majority of use relative to the total in system, Then it can be 1,3,5,100 billion, it doesn't matter.

So there is no right price, it varies according to need, if this is manipulated by player behaviour, then a balancing force needs to be applied
Zihao
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#737 - 2015-09-23 18:00:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Zihao
motie one wrote:
If the velocity of the rate of exchange into pilot services, has decreased to the point that these are only a secondary use for the product then the alternative uses (wealth storage, and speculative gambling) are "in excess"


What differentiates gambling and wealth storage from investment? The opinions of bureaucrats.

It sounds like you believe your central planners can allocate capital more efficiently than producers and consumers. If that is the case, why not simply put these people in charge of all resource allocation? Surely a command economy run by such brilliant people would be wildly successful.
motie one
Secret Passage
#738 - 2015-09-23 18:08:17 UTC  |  Edited by: motie one
Zihao wrote:
motie one wrote:
If the velocity of the rate of exchange into pilot services, has decreased to the point that these are only a secondary use for the product then the alternative uses (wealth storage, and speculative gambling) are "in excess"


What differentiates gambling and wealth storage from investment? The opinions of bureaucrats.

It sounds like you believe your central planners can allocate capital more efficiently than producers and consumers. If that is the case, why not simply put these people in charge of all resource allocation? Surely a command economy run by such brilliant people would be wildly successful.


Well, If you cannot see that pilots services are different from the wider economy, then there is not much to say, If you believe that even the most right wing economies on the planet do not have some checks and balances on essential services, then I guess that the FED should just be sold to Goldman sachs, together with the documents signing you over officially as a serf to exploit?

That'll take care of those meddling socialists!
Dethmourne Silvermane
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#739 - 2015-09-23 18:16:45 UTC
What's the problem with using PLEX as wealth storage, as long as players continue to be willing to generate new PLEX to feed into those who want to use it as wealth storage?

I'm not sure I'm following why "redeeming for gametime" is the One True God of PLEX.

Interested Party (TM)

yvsyvz
Doomheim
#740 - 2015-09-24 04:23:22 UTC  |  Edited by: yvsyvz
Leetmcfeet wrote:
motie one wrote:


Let me ask you, do you see no connection between this and the reduction of concurrent players, the unsubbing of alts, the reduction of multiple pilot training and the velocity of isk in the economy? This isk for example would be buying these services and is currently not for most players. It is just padding users balances. Waiting.

If you cannot see this just wait for CCP to act to rebalance the serious imbalance, and then reconsider.


You're attributing a loss of concurent players to PLEX which is simply not true. Phoebe; Sov and various forms of bitching have lowered concurent players in the cases where players are actually leaving the game- in other cases people are cutting the fat until a time where which they find use in their alts and sub them again. The game has undergone massive changes which fundamentally completely change the way the game is played. People left because they were unhappy and because when your friends quit - you quit. When you've had your group for several years and people leave; you leave too because you are left with nothing. Those players may or may not return; but PLEX will hardly have anything to do with it.


I have not unsubscribed because of Fozzie Sov, in the contrary I like it with some tweaking here and there. The People that are crying like babies about it are specific groups, who cannot dominate as they used to and the extremly biased reddit congregation, which is a direct projection of the former and their spin.
BUT I have cut down an alt account due to plex prices. I am not spending any unnecessary ISK on the market anymore to have more potential buffer for my main account if the manipualtion is going on further. Does that tell you something? And no! I am sure not the only one wo needs to act like this.