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Reply to CCP minutes - Drones already have a disadvantage

Author
Hibernator X
Standing Wave Society
#81 - 2015-02-03 04:54:07 UTC
Komodo Askold wrote:
I don't think a timer would really help towards "balancing" drone boats like the Ishtar. Many ships can use drones, and they are their only defense against smaller ones, such as battleships against frigates.

At the end, it seems that the main problem is the Ishtar and its ability to both have a large drone bay and field heavy/sentry drones, as it gives it a hard punch (nearly battleship-like) with cruiser mobility and T2 resists.
I wonder how would it do if each ship could only use drones its size or smaller. That is:

- Light drones for frigates and destroyers.
- Light and medium drones for cruisers and battlecruisers.
- Light, medium, heavy and sentry drones for battleships.
- Carriers and supercarriers keep their current abilities (all subcap drones plus fighters/fighterbombers).

Maybe that way we could prevent smaller ships from dealing too much damage for their size, such as the Ishtar.

Or maybe this could hurt other ships too much. What do you think?



That said, I've never had any of the "problems" some people are claiming to have with their drones attacking whatever they want, etc.
If your drones are set to aggresive, they will attack the nearest hostile target if they were previously deployed, and attack the next hostile target once the first one is done, no matter if you told them to attack the first one or not.
If they're set to passive, they will only engage targets that you, personally, indicate them, and stand-by otherwise.
After each target, you have to manually direct them towards their targets, check if they're approaching the limit of your drone control range, and pull them back if they're taking too much damage.
You have to carefully control them, like if you were using turrets or launchers.


It is my belief that the ishtar and vni should be put into line with the myrmidon and the eos should keep 5 larges. T2 and faction combat-centric ships should probably punch a bit higher than the t1 versions.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#82 - 2015-02-03 05:23:47 UTC
What if the Ishtar and Dominix only received a drone bonus to heavies?
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#83 - 2015-02-03 05:35:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Marlona Sky wrote:
What if the Ishtar and Dominix only received a drone bonus to heavies?



Edit: my mistake - been flying them rigged so long I though they had a bonus.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Signal11th
#84 - 2015-02-03 08:56:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Signal11th
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
Signal11th wrote:
Yeah back to the next thing they nerf, it's just a never-ending cycle of CCP nerfing stuff because it's too popular and then the players finding what's the next best thing to use and then CCP nerfing that because it's too popular and so on and so on.

Drake blobs , nerf missiles
Supercap blobs = nerf tracking
Drone blobs= lets nerf drones.

Why not just give everyone the same ship and the same weapon and be done with it.



Oldish post but I'd just like to point something out, about what you're saying.

If CCP let some OP mechanic in the game, Everyone would use it. Because everything else would be welped by it. So there would be no point in flying anything else

If CCP Nerfed everything into the same thing, Everyone would be using it. The only difference is the way the ships looked.


Illusion of choice much? Your post pretty much defeats itself.





and yours just points out what I said. Any mechanic in EVE is OP if enough people use it together.

Nerf drones and then in 6-12 months time just wait for the next nerf to whatever the people are now mass flying next. It's bullshit, you get enough of anything in the game and it will be OP. It's a never ending circle basically driven by moaning egits who can't think outside the box or are always going to lose because they don't have the required amount of people in the alliance/corp.


Personally I've never had a problem killing an Ishtar but I do have a problem killing 100 ishtars on my own but then again I'd have trouble killing a hundred badgers so lets nerf their civilian lasers.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!

Kamahl Daikun
State War Academy
Caldari State
#85 - 2015-02-03 15:10:18 UTC
Hibernator X wrote:
I don't understand why they can't see that the issue is with the bonuses on drone ships and how they scale with large drones on cruisers... The problem does not lie with the drones themselves.


Pretty much this.
Unless you've trained into drones, using them on a hull with no bonus is really just DPS Whoring. The only exception is (maybe) sentries and ECM Drones.
Drones by themselves have a lot of problems and bugs. People only whine about them because of the hull bonuses and how they scale.
ashley Eoner
#86 - 2015-02-03 15:18:56 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
IbanezLaney wrote:
All they have to do is give drones a fitting cost.

Drone ships are OP at the moment - Ishtar is just a stand out example.

No other ship type can fit DPS without any CPU or PG cost.

This leaves drone ships the ability to be uber tanked + Fast/hold some Ewar/whatevs else you want all while doing good dps.



So either a drone nerf or a fitting cost for putting them in the bay is needed + cap use for deploying them. (to stop people undocking with offlined modules and switching them on one the pew starts)
Every single ship that has drones can "fit dps without cpu/pg cost". Even the drone ships will have **** DPS with just drones.

How well would your turreted ships work without gyros/tracking enhancers/tracking computers? Probably better then a drone ship that doesn't have drone damage amplifiers, omnitracking links, drone navigation computers and drone link augs. "good dps" is totally relative.

Without some omnitracking links sentries have worse tracking than large turrets (even with omni some large turrets track better).

Why would anyone bother not online modules before docking?

Marlona Sky wrote:
What if the Ishtar and Dominix only received a drone bonus to heavies?
That'd be an awful idea to limit the domi to heavy drones.
M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Stay Feral
#87 - 2015-02-03 17:35:32 UTC
Blavish wrote:
According to the CCP minutes drones might have a reload timer similar to guns.
The thing about drones is they already have a disadvantage from guns because they first have to return from the target if you want to swap them, then they have to return back to the target you want attacked.


Drones can be abandoned, thus your argument is invalid.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.

Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#88 - 2015-02-03 17:39:37 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:
IbanezLaney wrote:
[quote=Marlona Sky]What if the Ishtar and Dominix only received a drone bonus to heavies?
That'd be an awful idea to limit the domi to heavy drones.

Why?
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#89 - 2015-02-03 18:05:13 UTC
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#90 - 2015-02-03 20:16:38 UTC
As long as all other weapon systems get the reload + flight time factored in so they are on equal footing.

Funny how drone boats weren't OP till they were flown in a 150km arena where the target couldn't leave.

It seems everyone forgot they can warp out...its not like the sentry boats also has you tackled from 150km.

If they have a friend, get one yourself.

And lets not forget...you can shoot the drones and take away the weapon system. Can you say the same for turrets?
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#91 - 2015-02-03 20:29:16 UTC
Syn Shi wrote:
As long as all other weapon systems get the reload + flight time factored in so they are on equal footing.

Funny how drone boats weren't OP till they were flown in a 150km arena where the target couldn't leave.

It seems everyone forgot they can warp out...its not like the sentry boats also has you tackled from 150km.

If they have a friend, get one yourself.

And lets not forget...you can shoot the drones and take away the weapon system. Can you say the same for turrets?



Or my favorite, before the micro jump: being webbed like hell in a drone boat and sniped to death while the drones were ignored.

Oh, so a logi or T2 in the 5 to 1 gang might get taken out by drones now? Awww. Somebody's stats were hurt. Nerf the drones naow!

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#92 - 2015-02-03 20:52:09 UTC
Drones are RP / Lore ideas like defender missiles and auto targeting missiles, bombs, and mines, that happen to work.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#93 - 2015-02-08 03:55:55 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
IbanezLaney wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
What if the Ishtar and Dominix only received a drone bonus to heavies?
That'd be an awful idea to limit the domi to heavy drones.
Why?
Changing ammo gives you better tracking, range, damage and such. Limiting drone choice reduces flexibility and player tools.
Rain6637 wrote:
Drones are RP / Lore ideas like defender missiles and auto targeting missiles, bombs, and mines, that happen to work.
I wish defender missiles would auto target the nearest drones, bombs or missiles depending on the script you have loaded.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Jarod Garamonde
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2015-02-08 04:48:36 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Let's see...

- Drones ignore most instructions.
- They target whoever they want.
- They attack whenever they feel like.
- They switch targets at random
- They wander off on their own (to mate, maybe?).

Having them reload is the least of the things that need looking at.

Mr Epeen Cool



All of these things are true.
But, I actually find it endearing. Makes me like drones even more.
Reload timer is just the quirk we need to make them even funnier.

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]