Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I also think Cadari navy ships could use some work, I'm simply not nearly as familiar with them. but I would like to see hybrid CNI ships.

I just feel aesthetically they missed the mark in function and form. for one going for all ships I really feel we could lose the space camo..... do Matari forces fight in a lot of space jungles?

anyway there is one line of ships that is spected to be either a gun or missile boat. the other line is an armor tanking scram range projectile bruiser. They're good solo boats but not exactly you're fist thought a good fleet doctrine. I simply feel that a fleet issue ship should be something built for fleets. So all guns in the highs, room for a contemporary buffer, and good agility and speed as that is their racial strong suit.

There should be an Arty line and a missile line, they should be able to tank either shield or armor so balanced slot layouts

for the gun (Firetail, Stabber, Cane, Pest) line 5 to 10 damage and 7.5 tracking OR falloff because that is still beneficial to artillery as it has the longest falloff of all the long guns and would allow for some viable AC fits.

slot layouts should be balanced

Firetail same slot layout extra grid for a 3rd gun reduced damage per frigate level
-- Ship seems fine, It already has a balanced slot layout and is a capable shield or armor tank.

Stabber FI- (5-5-5) 5 guns 5 damage 7.5 tracking or 10 falloff equal shield and armor HP (enough grid for arty)
-- would make this ship much more interesting than it is now. right now It's an armor ruppy on crack. there really is not an arty kite boat in for solo other than the Cyna. Plus it might actually see some fleet action that is not heavy tackle.

Cane FI (6-6-6) 6 guns 10 damage 7.5 tracking or 10 falloff equal shield and armor HP
-- the current cane FI is actually the old cane with an extra low, It's a bit sad that being said I think it should get the same bonuses the HNI and BNI get and lose its utility highs... the HNI has more mids for **** sake.

Pest FI (8-6-6) 8 guns 5 damage 7.5 tracking or 5 falloff equal shield and armor HP (enough grid for arty)
IMO the most one of most lackluster faction battleships in the game, where napocs have projection application and massive tank, this TFI would have epic level alpha and mobility.

and for the missile line just get rid of the split bonuses remove gun fitting, and give them explosion velocity and explosive damage per level. Now in the case the Phoon maybe it should get a TP buff as the Minmatar don't have an E-war BS at the moment.

Scythe FI slot lay out is alreay (5-5-5) just add a launcher 5 damage per level and 7.5 explosion velocity.
This ship is fine I have actually flown in Scy-FI fleets. it's like a really quick Caracal

Phoon FI (8-6-6) 8 launchers 7.5 explosion velocity 7.5 TP effectiveness. equal sheild and armor HP.
Might be a bit OP with 8 launchers so perhaps 5 RoF instead of explosion velocity either way balance the tank and slot layout. other than that I am a bit stumped on this ship.

another option is to make one line arty focused and the other AC focused. like the amarrian navy issue line because like the ammarians minmatar have their racial specific turret system.

anyway these are my thoughts on the republic fleet line, The Augoror Navy Issue and executor navy issue are the epitome of what a navy issue ship should be. not brawly pirate boats.

anyone agree?

I don't feel hybrids have much of a place in CN since they are just a tech caldari got in their time with the galenteens they never invested much R&D into them so unlike Missiles so just lore wise i don't think it would be easy to get hybrids into the navy.


but thats just me if there is some balance hole it would fill then that trumps lore imo

Hybrids were the weapon system of the galenteen during the time the caldari were a part of the federation they adopted some of the tech. Caldari do favor rails more than galenteens do but hybrids are the primary weapon system of the galente what the caldari have is just ships set up to use galente tech

You do realize it gets a full 50% more shields and armor, a third more hull, an extra low slot, more powergrid, more CPU, a slightly higher base capacitor, is faster, has a higher base locking range, a higher sensor strength, and a lower sig radius, along with 25m3 more drone bay and 50 m3 more cargo space?

I wouldn't exactly call that nothing.

And I'm guessing if I go take a look at the Hurricane fleet, it has most of the same bonuses, including the 50% more shields and armor, and an extra slot somewhere.

Hurricanes are bad because they fit so poorly into the current meta, and proj turrets are underpowered in many situation.
But the blame there lies on the weapon system, not the hull, so overbalancing to account for bad weapons results in overpower once the weapon systems are fixed.

The extra low and higher base armor opens up a lot of possibilities. PL made pretty good use of the TFI vs Brave for the V-3 timers. It's a doctrine that requires a lot of web and tp support, but it's also one that doesn't require an enormous DPS wing to be effective, which is why it's good for a group like PL. It's currently one of the only battleship doctrines that isn't really terribly vulnerable to bombs as it has high ehp, a low sig, and can mount smart bombs to firewall while sporting an 8k+ alpha with respectable range. If I had to choose a battleship doctrine, this would be the one, and it's basically all possible because of the extra low slot and stats.

shameless bump, solely because I have seen a 10 damage 7.5 tracking pest talked about in several threads.

seriously why do neither of these ships have these.

Hmm you right, caldary navy deserve a hybrid boat. And it should be - Scorpion Navy Issue! But wait what i'm gonna do with Rokh then? Maybe Moa Navy Issue? What you think?

naw, just take the Caracal Navy Issue, and Scorpion Navy Issue and give them hybrid damage and optimal.



Yes, you are right. However I'd like to see the fleet issue pest be spected in to an alpha boat. the extra volley would be far more beneficial than some extra DPS.



yes I agree but why the hell do people want so many lows on these ships? you can't fit 1400s to a normal pest let alone a 1600 plate or two.

Sniper ( Deals damage to enemy from very long range)
+
Utility mids (Mods for extending own range/lock, or disrupting enemy [These ones tend to only work at close to moderate range])
+
Tank lows (Because that sniper needs a heavy armor tank, to tank the enemies damage as it shoots them from extreme range)
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You know what happens when you start mixing roles like that?

The Sacrilege. Cause short range missile ship with poor application that's also a slow armor tanker made sense to someone somewhere. Alcohol may have been involved.


If we rightly assume that the lows wont be used for tank and instead stuffed full of damage, what we basically have here is a BS sized Tornado, except slower, and more expensive, and still just as prone to getting killed by the first group to warp to 0 on them as a Tornado.

So like a Tornado, but worse is basically every way except a bit of extra raw alpha.

I see you snipped out the portion of the article talking about how important the tracking was in a current high cruiser enviroment.

Megathrons using rails have over 50% more tracking using rails with short range ammo vs a closer target. And nearly double using long range ammo. And more sustained DPS. They do more damage at longer range, and shorter range, with faster tracking.

The tracking bonus and the higher base weapon tracking on the Megathron is critical. With the game being primarily cruisers, being unable to hit moving cruisers at 25km means that your ship is crippled.

Current tempest and fleet pest is largely able to avoid this issue because anyone coming in close to a fleet of TFI's is rapidly reminded of the fact that they have two utility highslots almost certainly packing heavy neuts, and utility mids for webs.

Your proposed ships has no utility highs which means no neut pressure to deter brawlers, fewer utility mids since at least one got ripped off and added to lows, lower dps than a Mega, less utility than a Mega, less tracking than a Mega, less range than a Mega.

In the role of main fleet ship, it still gets overshadowed by the Megathron. And yet by removing the utility highslots and reducing utility midslots, you cut it's usefulness as a versatile BS useful in smaller numbers as a cap killer (because of the neuting highslots), and as a primary ship doctrine for small fleets where you don't expect pressure from multiple enemy fleets at once.

It just turns into a worse knock off copy of the old alpha-fleet Maelstrom, except armor tanked, and with less DPS and alpha.

P.S: Alphafleet was on the way out even before bombers rose to the prominence that they are at today.

Someone realized that if you took an armor HAC, put an AB on it, and sig links, you could get up in the face of an Alphafleet and murder it while the Alphafleet repeatedly failed to hit you. Much murdering ensued.