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Republic Fleet Ships.
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Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#21 - 2015-04-18 15:01:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Anhenka
Tusker Crazinski wrote:
Anhenka wrote:

It just turns into a worse knock off copy of the old alpha-fleet Maelstrom, except armor tanked, and with less DPS and alpha.

P.S: Alphafleet was on the way out even before bombers rose to the prominence that they are at today.

Someone realized that if you took an armor HAC, put an AB on it, and sig links, you could get up in the face of an Alphafleet and murder it while the Alphafleet repeatedly failed to hit you. Much murdering ensued.


actually I'd have more volley than mael and an arty abbadon for that matter -_-. and the alpha fleet is still around its just ishtar's and domi's because well senturies just do better and it's easier to execute.

and just point out one of the things minmatar ships can still do very well is, an MWD pest can easily outrun an AB A-HAC. or most HACs fitted with MWDs.

moreover alpha fleets are not ineffective, I see "please nerf logi threads all the time" the issue with arty in general is you can't fit it without the use of 3 ACRs or PDUs and even then you're left with a slow paper thin ship with bad DPS.

but the fitting reqs for arty is for another thread.


0: It's an armor setup, with 2 Gyros top on an armor tank to the old Alphafleet's 3 Gyros, reducing the effect of the damage bonus. If it has 7 arties, it's slightly less DPS than an old Maelstrom, if 8, it has more.

1: Sentries are not Alphafleet. Alphafleet was defined by the artillery alpha nature of the primary ship, the Maelstrom, designed to instantly rip through an enemy with a single coordinated volley. Domis with a 4 second cycle time drone are not Alphafleet.

2: There's this thing called Webs and Scrams. One of either drops a MWDing pest to well below an AB Zealot. They are used for range control in AHAC brawling setups. Throw a handful of webbing Loki's in and the enemy fleet is not going anywhere unless they want to abandon 20% of their fleet to webs and scrams.

3: People whining about logi =/= Alphafleet is good. It means people are whining about logi. You have to be able to apply the damage before alpha gets to be important, and your proposal has serious issues hitting anything other than a MWDing BS.

If you have never flown Alphafleet vs AHAC's, or AHAC's vs Alphafleet, it's hard to explain just how hard AHAC's counter them. It's outright slaughter, and unless they have another fleet to come in and peel off the AHAC's, it's a short trip back to base for every Alphafleet BS that gets webbed or scrammed. And the only choice is to run, since Arties don't hit **** at 15km vs 80 sig Radius AHAC's doing 650 m/sec.

Baby Seal vs Clubotron 9000, no joke.
Tusker Crazinski
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2015-04-18 16:13:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Tusker Crazinski
Anhenka wrote:
Tusker Crazinski wrote:
Anhenka wrote:

It just turns into a worse knock off copy of the old alpha-fleet Maelstrom, except armor tanked, and with less DPS and alpha.

P.S: Alphafleet was on the way out even before bombers rose to the prominence that they are at today.

Someone realized that if you took an armor HAC, put an AB on it, and sig links, you could get up in the face of an Alphafleet and murder it while the Alphafleet repeatedly failed to hit you. Much murdering ensued.


actually I'd have more volley than mael and an arty abbadon for that matter -_-. and the alpha fleet is still around its just ishtar's and domi's because well senturies just do better and it's easier to execute.

and just point out one of the things minmatar ships can still do very well is, an MWD pest can easily outrun an AB A-HAC. or most HACs fitted with MWDs.

moreover alpha fleets are not ineffective, I see "please nerf logi threads all the time" the issue with arty in general is you can't fit it without the use of 3 ACRs or PDUs and even then you're left with a slow paper thin ship with bad DPS.

but the fitting reqs for arty is for another thread.


0: It's an armor setup, with 2 Gyros top on an armor tank to the old Alphafleet's 3 Gyros, reducing the effect of the damage bonus. If it has 7 arties, it's slightly less DPS than an old Maelstrom, if 8, it has more.

1: Sentries are not Alphafleet. Alphafleet was defined by the artillery alpha nature of the primary ship, the Maelstrom, designed to instantly rip through an enemy with a single coordinated volley. Domis with a 4 second cycle time drone are not Alphafleet.

2: There's this thing called Webs and Scrams. One of either drops a MWDing pest to well below an AB Zealot. They are used for range control in AHAC brawling setups. Throw a handful of webbing Loki's in and the enemy fleet is not going anywhere unless they want to abandon 20% of their fleet to webs and scrams.

3: People whining about logi =/= Alphafleet is good. It means people are whining about logi. You have to be able to apply the damage before alpha gets to be important, and your proposal has serious issues hitting anything other than a MWDing BS.

If you have never flown Alphafleet vs AHAC's, or AHAC's vs Alphafleet, it's hard to explain just how hard AHAC's counter them. It's outright slaughter, and unless they have another fleet to come in and peel off the AHAC's, it's a short trip back to base for every Alphafleet BS that gets webbed or scrammed. And the only choice is to run, since Arties don't hit **** at 15km vs 80 sig Radius AHAC's doing 650 m/sec.

Baby Seal vs Clubotron 9000, no joke.


I haven't honestly, I didn't really get the SP before Ishtar's were a thing.

well the great thing about guns is their performance can be manipulated, the same way you could up transversal by flying a few degrees off the nose or completely perpendicular to the target ships velocity vector, you could fly parallel to a target's velocity vector. I've done this to track things I really shouldn't and It has worked in the past.

- well I'm not proposing the armor setup, that's something minmatar need to stray away from abit IMO.

- all long range guns, pulse lasers, and senturies can alpha strike, they just require more of the ship in question. for example the old Naga fleets. no they didn't quite hit like 1400s but they did hit more often and at greater distances

- arty can track AB cruisers just fine with proper piloting, the issue I've had with my arty setups is they're normally forced off grid by flight of light or med drones :(

- I understand full well why A-HAC fleets can shred arty fleets. High EHP to Low Sig ratio. however both have advantages it comes down to whose support is better handled. yes, an MWD BS can out pace an AB HAC. yes, A-HAC fleets can use loki webs, and yes an arty fleet can use huggins. TPs are actually awesome.

the proposed tempest would either be 6 guns with a 10 damage mod or 7-8 guns with a 5 percent damage mod, both with 7.5 tracking. this would give either the fleet pest or base pest volley on par or exceeding that of the mach.

there isn't a single t1 hull that bonuses med or large projectile tracking and it's a gawt damn shame.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#23 - 2015-04-18 18:32:24 UTC
so you dropped the whole 'its a bad mix match of roles and armour tank is pointless' and swapped to an entirely separate type of argument? brilliant.

And so what if my pest cant track as well? whats wrong with a tradeoff? did i say i was trying to revolutionise the fleet meta? no. I was just blowing your argument out of the water whilst at the same time suggesting that the pest/mach clones could change one ship for something else.

If the neuts are so crucial to the pest ill fly with geddon and loki support, just like the baltec fleet often flew with loki's, apocs and TFI's to help with its drawbacks. Or even better still, i'll make a pest fleet out of whichever pest keeps its utility highs. Doesnt mean i cant do anything with a high damage projectile gunboat.

As for being countered by HACs...yeah, just like all the other non-sentry BS fleets, including the baltec one. having a counter does not make a ship unviable. It is in fact the rock paper scissors that the designers go for.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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