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Reply to CCP minutes - Drones already have a disadvantage

Author
Lister Vindaloo
5 Tons of Flax
#21 - 2015-01-29 04:40:30 UTC
At EDU last year CCP Rise showed data that implied drones may get nerfed, personally I think drones should be left as they are for dedicated drone boats, add a reload timer or control limitations for hulls that use drones as secondary dps. But for dedicated drone boat pilots who actively target and direct their drones it would be a complete waste of all the skill points it takes to fly them well
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2015-01-29 05:41:13 UTC
The only ones I can see as potentially overpowered in this way are Sentries - not "drones" but just that class of drones.
Serene Repose
#23 - 2015-01-29 08:29:58 UTC
Never trust a guy with a steel plate on his head. You never know what's under it. Cool

We must accommodate the idiocracy.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#24 - 2015-01-29 08:34:03 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:



I don't get why they are trying to balance drones around one ship thus breaking drones for every other ship instead of just re-balancing that ship.


Its not just one ship.
Anthar Thebess
#25 - 2015-01-29 09:59:30 UTC
Normal drones are fine.
They need to fly to a target, so it takes time to do it, and they can be killed before getting to target.
Only change that could put some new life into normal drones are heavy ones , more DPS or 20mb could help them to become more useful.

Sentry drones,
Here we have issues mostly to hulls that abuse range bonus of the drones.
- Dominix
- Ishthar
- Rattlesnake ( to some extend , no range bonus makes this ship somewhat balanced)
- Carrier (dps or range is not 100% issue , but way you combine multi milion ehp, remote reps , and ability to store few thousand of sentry drones)


Fighters / Fighter bombers.
They are almost fine.
Real issue is only to fighters assigned from mother ship.
You can assign few thousand DPS flying 4000 m/s and following enemies in warp, while your mothership is almost fully safe near pos shield ).

Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
#26 - 2015-01-29 11:38:30 UTC
Hicksimus wrote:
Step 1: Make Large/Sentry drones a Battleship weapon
Step 2: Stop giving cruisers huge drone baysbandwidth
Step 3: Profit

That might work a wee bit better, especially if the bandwidth of heavies was dropped slightly.

Cruisers with large bays are great for solo / exploring, just so long as the bandwidth controls how much can be flown.
Yeah, I know you can play games with discarding drones and releasing a new flight but wouldn't bandwidth controls help with that too?
Hicksimus
Torgue
#27 - 2015-01-29 11:55:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Hicksimus
ashley Eoner wrote:

You know I can share a dozen or more builds involving cruisers belching out battleship level DPS without even using drones.


But these fits you would share have to be at 3km instead of 70-120km to do it and they have no EHP. I get that my idea isn't popular because nearly everybody is abusing drones for large PvE income and nullsec is using them to be lame in general but I'm still certain that having Battleship DPS at huge range with infinite ammo in a relatively fast ship is a bit much.


Edit: Or let me mount other battleship weapons on cruisers while still being able to properly fit them because that would be amazing. 425mm Deimos Versus Sentry Ishtar, etc.

Recruitment Officer: What type of a pilot are you? Me: I've been described as a Ray Charles with Parkinsons and a drinking problem.

Chal0ner
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2015-01-29 12:45:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Chal0ner
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
At least they behave more like 12yr old cats now instead of the herd of rowdy kittens they used to be.
So they sleep all day, constantly demand to be fed in the hope that you've forgotten that you fed them 10 minutes ago and smack you in the face at 3 in the morning in the hope you'll feed them again or let them out?


More like attack your feet, your friends feet, your mothers feet, each other, the wall, the curtains, the couch, the spot where the sun is shining on the rug, the bug on the wall, the pull string for the ceiling fan, the newspaper... pretty much everything else but the one thing theyre told or allowed to attack.



Nonono, that's Goons your're talking about.
Our kittens are so well behaved they only attack each other on the bad a 4 am.
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2015-01-29 12:53:48 UTC
Skyla Braveheart wrote:
yeah..i was trying to rat last night, and my drones were suddenly just..stopping. not attacking until i ordered them to -again- needless to say..the rats out tanked them because they kept stopping..i didnt have this problem before..only last night..i dont know if something changed or what..but..its bad..ratting with drones is how i make money so far..and now i cant :/


so you have to keep asigning targets (whats the issue here?), or are you complaining that you cant afk rat because of this issue?

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Signal11th
#30 - 2015-01-29 13:06:41 UTC
Yeah back to the next thing they nerf, it's just a never-ending cycle of CCP nerfing stuff because it's too popular and then the players finding what's the next best thing to use and then CCP nerfing that because it's too popular and so on and so on.

Drake blobs , nerf missles
Supercap blobs = nerf tracking
Drone blobs= lets nerf drones.

Why not just give everyone the same ship and the same weapon and be done with it.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!

Leannor
BlackWatch Industrial Group
Reckless Contingency.
#31 - 2015-01-29 13:07:43 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Let's see...

- Drones ignore most instructions.
- They target whoever they want.
- They attack whenever they feel like.
- They switch targets at random
- They wander off on their own (to mate, maybe?).

Having them reload is the least of the things that need looking at.

Mr Epeen Cool



Sigh, just because you can't control your own drones, doesn't mean everyone is the same. lol. Roll

"Lykouleon wrote:

STOP TOUCHING ICONIC SHIP PARTS"

Leannor
BlackWatch Industrial Group
Reckless Contingency.
#32 - 2015-01-29 13:08:34 UTC
Signal11th wrote:
Yeah back to the next thing they nerf, it's just a never-ending cycle of CCP nerfing stuff because it's too popular and then the players finding what's the next best thing to use and then CCP nerfing that because it's too popular and so on and so on.

Drake blobs , nerf missles
Supercap blobs = nerf tracking
Drone blobs= lets nerf drones.

Why not just give everyone the same ship and the same weapon and be done with it.



Shhhhh ... they need to justify their jobs with something...

"Lykouleon wrote:

STOP TOUCHING ICONIC SHIP PARTS"

Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2015-01-29 13:16:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
Signal11th wrote:
Yeah back to the next thing they nerf, it's just a never-ending cycle of CCP nerfing stuff because it's too popular and then the players finding what's the next best thing to use and then CCP nerfing that because it's too popular and so on and so on.

Drake blobs , nerf missles
Supercap blobs = nerf tracking
Drone blobs= lets nerf drones.

Why not just give everyone the same ship and the same weapon and be done with it.


because maybe they want people to use other ships instead of the same old sh!t because it works better than everything else? sometimes its nice to change, nerf the ishtar because its getting boring now :P

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Signal11th
#34 - 2015-01-29 13:24:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Signal11th
Lan Wang wrote:
Signal11th wrote:
Yeah back to the next thing they nerf, it's just a never-ending cycle of CCP nerfing stuff because it's too popular and then the players finding what's the next best thing to use and then CCP nerfing that because it's too popular and so on and so on.

Drake blobs , nerf missles
Supercap blobs = nerf tracking
Drone blobs= lets nerf drones.

Why not just give everyone the same ship and the same weapon and be done with it.


because maybe they want people to use other ships instead of the same old sh!t because it works better than everything else? sometimes its nice to change, nerf the ishtar because its getting boring now :P



you did read my post I assume or was it a quick flick through and a single solitary neuron fired up after recognising the words NERF and NO and you had to scribble something down?

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!

Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2015-01-29 13:37:50 UTC
Signal11th wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Signal11th wrote:
Yeah back to the next thing they nerf, it's just a never-ending cycle of CCP nerfing stuff because it's too popular and then the players finding what's the next best thing to use and then CCP nerfing that because it's too popular and so on and so on.

Drake blobs , nerf missles
Supercap blobs = nerf tracking
Drone blobs= lets nerf drones.

Why not just give everyone the same ship and the same weapon and be done with it.


because maybe they want people to use other ships instead of the same old sh!t because it works better than everything else? sometimes its nice to change, nerf the ishtar because its getting boring now :P



you did read my post I assume or was it a quick flick through and a single solitary neuron fired up after recognising the words NERF and NO and you had to scribble something down?


yeah i missed the last line and realised lol :P

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#36 - 2015-01-29 13:38:09 UTC
Desimus Maximus wrote:
AND.. And.. and..... Nerf the Ishtar drone bay ffs. I'd luv to know where all those large drones are being stored on a CRUISER.

Well they're being stored in the drone bay obviously...

And given that the ship is what? 250m long (and high) I really doubt that it's excessively difficult to find a 7 meter cube somewhere in there.
Agent Unknown
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#37 - 2015-01-29 15:54:56 UTC
Hicksimus wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:

You know I can share a dozen or more builds involving cruisers belching out battleship level DPS without even using drones.


But these fits you would share have to be at 3km instead of 70-120km to do it and they have no EHP. I get that my idea isn't popular because nearly everybody is abusing drones for large PvE income and nullsec is using them to be lame in general but I'm still certain that having Battleship DPS at huge range with infinite ammo in a relatively fast ship is a bit much.


Edit: Or let me mount other battleship weapons on cruisers while still being able to properly fit them because that would be amazing. 425mm Deimos Versus Sentry Ishtar, etc.


Combat Battlecruisers. Pirate

But, I agree that something needs to be done with certain drone boats to bring them more in line with other ships of the same class. Nerfing damage bonuses or bandwidth might be a good start, but it's all a very delicate balance.
ashley Eoner
#38 - 2015-01-29 19:07:24 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
Hicksimus wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:

You know I can share a dozen or more builds involving cruisers belching out battleship level DPS without even using drones.


But these fits you would share have to be at 3km instead of 70-120km to do it and they have no EHP. I get that my idea isn't popular because nearly everybody is abusing drones for large PvE income and nullsec is using them to be lame in general but I'm still certain that having Battleship DPS at huge range with infinite ammo in a relatively fast ship is a bit much.


Edit: Or let me mount other battleship weapons on cruisers while still being able to properly fit them because that would be amazing. 425mm Deimos Versus Sentry Ishtar, etc.

Now you're just being ridiculous.

If you can't out dps an ishtar at 120 KM range while having a bigger tank in a BS then you're doing it wrong.

The ishtar pilot has to sacrifice a LOT of something to be hitting at 120km usually both tank and DPS. At the very least DPS takes a nasty hit compared to BSes.

So no you're not going to be doing BS level dps at 120 KM while still having a good tank in an ishtar.


Drones are not "being abused for large PVE income". You're clearly disconnected from reality. But lets see what is used for "large PVE income". Incursions definitely the big "large pve income" look at any public fleet and you'll quickly realize they only take drone boats as a last resort. EVERY...SINGLE....GROUP!!!! Take turrets over drones any day of the week.

Okay lets try missions then. To get "large PVE income" you want to use anything but a drone boat (the Gila when nearly maxed skilled for drones and such does pretty well). Drones either anchor you in place (sentries) thus keeping you from moving gate to gate or forcing you to hold off on DPS till you arrive at the gate. IF you use heavies everything in the room will shoot them and basically the same for mediums. Light drone DPS is so poor that it's not even a serious consideration.

So what do people tend to use for "large PVE income" in level 4s? maruaders usually specifically the golem. OF course marauders are pretty much pure turret/launcher boats with drone dps being a minor aspect of overall DPS. Those that use faster ships for blitzing tend to use turret based ships.

Exploring? I don't consider that "large PVE income". Regardless prior to the introduction of the sisters of eve stuff people would hack in non drone boats.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#39 - 2015-01-29 19:23:44 UTC
So....
Drones only fire a limited number of volleys before they have to return to the drone bay for reloading.
Sentry drones get terrible sensor strength to nerf their quick deployment/target switching.
Fighters and fighter bombers suffer from both of the above.

As a carrot, drones(and fighters) can now be fitted to allow a choice between offensive/defensive/propulsion/sustainability.
They also use Sleeper AI on the drones to make them more efficient acting in a group.
Skyla Braveheart
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2015-01-29 19:29:18 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Skyla Braveheart wrote:
yeah..i was trying to rat last night, and my drones were suddenly just..stopping. not attacking until i ordered them to -again- needless to say..the rats out tanked them because they kept stopping..i didnt have this problem before..only last night..i dont know if something changed or what..but..its bad..ratting with drones is how i make money so far..and now i cant :/


so you have to keep asigning targets (whats the issue here?), or are you complaining that you cant afk rat because of this issue?


uh..neither. i dont afk. my issue was they start attacking..i watch them attack..then they just start to sit there, and dont do anything. the target -was not- destroyed yet. they just stopped and i had to tell them AGAIN to attack it. so because of that the cruiser was out tanking their dps because they would -stop- attacking