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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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To CCP, the CSM, the CPM and my beloved friends in game.

First post
Author
Cassandra Skjem
Big Sister Exploration
#1 - 2015-01-28 22:40:02 UTC
Djinn Jecture wrote:
Friendship is not enough, nor encrypted strongboxes, nor a warbarge that just boosts a solo player. Tie the game to EVE or sell it to Dice.

I wanted, from the day CCP said it was possible, to be able to produce the suits and equipment for my Mercs on the battlefield in Eve like I do my ships and modules. I wanted from the day I started playing to be able to sell my salvage for a fair price. The NPC market is worse than backwater market wh*res who take stuff at 10% value in EVE.

I wanted integration not segregation, which we had from the start. I would pay a subscription fee to play as both me and my significant other do (2 accounts each) to play Eve. Hell I have multiple toons training on more than one account now in Eve (roughly $70 cost for myself for one month for my toons).

Walking in stations interacting with Dust/Eve players would be a good start. Having a plaza to sit and mingle or play cards or scam people in would be a good move forward.

Secondly allow mercs to make and accept contracts, isk and items from both Eve and Dust. A battle is not a contract no matter how you word it.

Allow mercs to relocate via troop transport through Eve to a new location and make Warbarges a Corporate Ship flown by a player.

This is what was described to us as the FUTURE of dust when we were asked to try it out in Closed Beta. This is what we expected to come within the next few years. What we have now is more like COD without decent hit detection and equipment costs that are sometimes quite extreme for the 1.5s it takes for the merc to detonate the RE on top of the uplink we spawned at.

Please consider that you gave us assurances that things would move in these directions as you stated previously and that you should do what was planned. I realize you have a good deal of work ahead of you to get it to this point, as it seems you have only lightly touched on any of these items but I believe I have been patient, and many others have as well, supporting your continued efforts to make the game better.

I am writing this because I don't see any movement towards any Eve ties, nor any indication that anything is happening other than the attempt to increase revenues through the free-to-play model. Ever since I started playing Eve I keep hearing "walking in stations" and that you are working on it but all I see is a Captain's Quarters or a Mercenaries Quarters so I have been waiting close to 7 years for walking in stations.

In the construction business if you said we're working on building a plaza for people to put shops up at and walk around and mingle, socializing and having events and then said but for now can you please all just stay in your hotel rooms while we fix all the doors, and then left people in there for this length of time, you would have people jumping out of windows before the end of the first year.

I understand things take time to work out and would much rather have the game optimized before walking in stations and realize its a video game, not the construction business, but I am wondering if you just all up and forgot about this stuff.

As much as I welcome feedback relating to any of the ideas presented here, I hope that someone from CCP will look at this and provide me with some feedback on my concerns.

Thank you for your time and understanding.


I have since this initial post, received some input on the Dust Forums regarding this post in the form of Eve players don't care and I agree, but the interaction aspects have been overlooked, unimproved and regressed because of lack of support here on the forums and in part due to rioting during incarna. Are you all so opposed to having a united New Eden that you would still unsub because some mercs can buy your goods or kill the drones messing with your PI? Yes I do have PI yes I do manufacture goods for sale. Why wouldn't I? What are you so afraid of, what would cause you to leave all of your friends in game to go play WOW or Diablo 3 that you don't want a mixing of players between the two games.

As to earlier complaints about console kiddies, you are pretty much all a bunch of console kiddies. The computer is just a different console. Mom and dad have no control of their credit card? Please. Grow a pair. Get a POS and go there if this is such an issue. Yes I understand not everyone likes the idea, but frankly I think this is possibly the best way to move Dust to the computer. Move the game forward and make the last 3-4 years of development worth something.

BTW if any of you want to move out of stations please contact me thru in game mail, I can find you a WH to move into no problem.

Is it a tarp?

Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#2 - 2015-01-28 22:45:58 UTC
With CCP having announced Project Legion, I don't see anything good in DUST's future.
Cassandra Skjem
Big Sister Exploration
#3 - 2015-01-28 22:51:36 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
With CCP having announced Project Legion, I don't see anything good in DUST's future.

...Oh didn't you hear, Legion is Dust, rebranded and moved to PC, I really don't care if this happens on Dust or Legion but atm Legion has yet to be green lit, one would think it depends on capsuleer support.

Is it a tarp?

Cassandra Skjem
Big Sister Exploration
#4 - 2015-01-28 22:57:22 UTC
The link to the Original Quote because this discussion deserves both sides to see the other.

Is it a tarp?

Cassandra Skjem
Big Sister Exploration
#5 - 2015-01-28 23:24:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Cassandra Skjem
What would happen if the Sansha Nation started confiscation of planetary resources from capsuleers or roaming rogue drones started doing the same or Angels, Guristas or even raiding bands of Dust/Legion Players? This would amount to real interaction that matters both to our economies as well as to each other.

How about doing a Sov push through Null where 1/2 the TCUs were positioned on the planets.

Want the compounds from Drones, maybe the way to reintroduce them to Eve is in the form of salvage from drones found on the planetary surfaces.

Need a new market that is pristine and easy to reach, captive even one might say, sell to mercs.

There are plenty of interaction ideas out there guys come on, put em up, add to them. Support interaction rather than segregation.

Edit::: Holy cow, mercs on moons...shhhh don't tell the sov empires they might move mountians of mercs to combat them.

Is it a tarp?

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#6 - 2015-01-28 23:35:44 UTC
Each game needs to be a fully intact game, you need to be able to control what happens to you entirely inside the game.
This means Dust mercs need the ability to build their own suits if suits are manufactured.
EVE players can 'also' have the ability to manufacture suits and sell them on the open/corp market as well, but EVE players can not have the exclusive ability to build them without breaking Dust.

The same is true of things like raids on PI, EVE players need the ability to control & respond to these from the EVE side. They can also chose to open it up to the Dust side if they want, but it has to be an option, not the only response.

And so forth.
Cassandra Skjem
Big Sister Exploration
#7 - 2015-01-28 23:45:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Cassandra Skjem
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Each game needs to be a fully intact game, you need to be able to control what happens to you entirely inside the game.
This means Dust mercs need the ability to build their own suits if suits are manufactured.
EVE players can 'also' have the ability to manufacture suits and sell them on the open/corp market as well, but EVE players can not have the exclusive ability to build them without breaking Dust.

The same is true of things like raids on PI, EVE players need the ability to control & respond to these from the EVE side. They can also chose to open it up to the Dust side if they want, but it has to be an option, not the only response.

And so forth.

Thats a great idea, so why not save the trouble and bring the Eve players the ability by adding a 4th, 5th and 6th character slot to each eve account and allow each player to do just that, deploying Legion.

Is it a tarp?

Lugh Crow-Slave
#8 - 2015-01-28 23:46:40 UTC
I would much rather two separate fully functional games rather than one game and one tacked on project
Cassandra Skjem
Big Sister Exploration
#9 - 2015-01-28 23:53:01 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
I would much rather two separate fully functional games rather than one game and one tacked on project

One person for segregation, but why may I ask would you want that? I did ask earlier so please don't be shy.

Is it a tarp?

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#10 - 2015-01-28 23:58:10 UTC
Cassandra Skjem wrote:

Thats a great idea, so why not save the trouble and bring the Eve players the ability by adding a 4th, 5th and 6th character slot to each eve account and allow each player to do just that, deploying Legion.

CCP's announced long term plan is actually that each character slot can log into all the games. So you will be the same person in Valkyrie EVE & Dust/Legion. Just using a different clone type. But you still shouldn't have to play Dust in order to play EVE.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#11 - 2015-01-29 00:01:03 UTC
Cassandra Skjem wrote:
What would happen if the Sansha Nation started confiscation of planetary resources from capsuleers or roaming rogue drones started doing the same or Angels, Guristas or even raiding bands of Dust/Legion Players? This would amount to real interaction that matters both to our economies as well as to each other.

How about doing a Sov push through Null where 1/2 the TCUs were positioned on the planets.

Want the compounds from Drones, maybe the way to reintroduce them to Eve is in the form of salvage from drones found on the planetary surfaces.

Need a new market that is pristine and easy to reach, captive even one might say, sell to mercs.

There are plenty of interaction ideas out there guys come on, put em up, add to them. Support interaction rather than segregation.

Edit::: Holy cow, mercs on moons...shhhh don't tell the sov empires they might move mountians of mercs to combat them.



Why should those of us who can't play FPS games, or who hate them, be locked out of defending our own space?

Why should my PI stuff be messed up in a way that I literally cannot counter unless I fire up a completely different game, in a style which I despise?

Why should my industrial activities be disrupted in a way I cannot do anything at all to counter from within the game I am paying a subscription fee for?
Cassandra Skjem
Big Sister Exploration
#12 - 2015-01-29 00:07:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Cassandra Skjem
Danika Princip wrote:
Cassandra Skjem wrote:
What would happen if the Sansha Nation started confiscation of planetary resources from capsuleers or roaming rogue drones started doing the same or Angels, Guristas or even raiding bands of Dust/Legion Players? This would amount to real interaction that matters both to our economies as well as to each other.

How about doing a Sov push through Null where 1/2 the TCUs were positioned on the planets.

Want the compounds from Drones, maybe the way to reintroduce them to Eve is in the form of salvage from drones found on the planetary surfaces.

Need a new market that is pristine and easy to reach, captive even one might say, sell to mercs.

There are plenty of interaction ideas out there guys come on, put em up, add to them. Support interaction rather than segregation.

Edit::: Holy cow, mercs on moons...shhhh don't tell the sov empires they might move mountians of mercs to combat them.



Why should those of us who can't play FPS games, or who hate them, be locked out of defending our own space?

Why should my PI stuff be messed up in a way that I literally cannot counter unless I fire up a completely different game, in a style which I despise?

Why should my industrial activities be disrupted in a way I cannot do anything at all to counter from within the game I am paying a subscription fee for?

Why should you not be making friends? Why should I be locked out of a C6 because I can't fly a dread, carrier or T3? Why why why, can't a player making money off the planets put the isk they are making off them put it into defending them? Huh?

Edit: maybe you missed the description of Dust/Legion "MMORPGFPS" ask a player in Dust what they do: they fight and die alongside other mercs defending ground for no reason other than they want to kill someone, now give them a reason to fight for something so they can achieve greatness and you along side them. Its not just one merc, it is an army of them.

Is it a tarp?

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#13 - 2015-01-29 00:12:40 UTC
Cassandra Skjem wrote:

Why should you not be making friends? Why should I be locked out of a C6 because I can't fly a dread, carrier or T3? Why why why, can't a player making money off the planets put the isk they are making off them put it into defending them? Huh?

You aren't locked out of a C6.
Friends is irrelevant to the fact of a different game.
Putting isk & time into defending PI is irrelevant to the fact of a different game.

Like I said above, if it can mess with your EVE game directly, then you need to be able to solve it through EVE 'if' you chose to.
There is nothing wrong with multiple options some of which use contracts to Dust as a solution, but you should have the option to for example, go to your PI, and defend it from space with orbital bombardments and shooting down their space side of the raid also.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#14 - 2015-01-29 00:23:05 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:

Why should those of us who can't play FPS games, or who hate them, be locked out of defending our own space?

Why should my PI stuff be messed up in a way that I literally cannot counter unless I fire up a completely different game, in a style which I despise?

Why should my industrial activities be disrupted in a way I cannot do anything at all to counter from within the game I am paying a subscription fee for?


- It's always been that "taking space" would be a combination of DUST and EVE efforts. In this way, you cannot take over space with just DUST mercs.

- Someone's attacking your PI? Counter it with ISK; hire some dust bunnies - or I guess Legionnaires (Legion Lemmings?).

- Why should you always be able to directly counter any attacks made against your activities? Use your ISK and hire people to fill the gaps in your defense that you cannot cover yourself. It's not an unreasonable thing.

This would, of course, require that CCP allow ISK to transfer between EVE and DUST as it should be able to.

At any rate, a great many EVE players are among the most change-averse, narrow-minded people in the entire world. I'm astonished, truly, that EVE has actually survived as long as it has. The product needs to grow and expand if it's going to last another ten years and focusing solely on spaceships in space is only going to go so far.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#15 - 2015-01-29 00:23:10 UTC
Cassandra Skjem wrote:


Why should you not be making friends? Why should I be locked out of a C6 because I can't fly a dread, carrier or T3? Why why why, can't a player making money off the planets put the isk they are making off them put it into defending them? Huh?

Edit: maybe you missed the description of Dust/Legion "MMORPGFPS" ask a player in Dust what they do: they fight and die alongside other mercs defending ground for no reason other than they want to kill someone, now give them a reason to fight for something so they can achieve greatness and you along side them. Its not just one merc, it is an army of them.



I have played dust. It was exactly the same as every other multiplayer FPS game I have ever played. There is no draw to that game for me as an EVE player.

if I cannot defend my EVE stuff in EVE, what is the point of having it?

Your wormhole example is irrelevant here. A C6 wormhole is at the very least part of the same game. What you do in your C6 does not affect me in Null directly. Having some FPS kiddie total my PI setup, however, DOES affect me directly, and there would be nothing whatsoever I could do about it within the confines of the MMO I am paying a subscription fee for.

Why, exactly, should an FPS player be able to **** me over without any opportunity for me to defend myself?

Myself is the key word here. Yes, I could rely on my rather large alliance's dust/legion/whatever wing to do it for me, but it's my ****, I should be looking after it myself. PI is a personal asset, not an alliance level one.


Why, exactly, should a child playing a free shoot mans game be able to screw over a long time subscriber in a slow burn MMO with absolutely zero chance for the latter to do anything about it?
Cassandra Skjem
Big Sister Exploration
#16 - 2015-01-29 00:24:32 UTC
At the present point in time Mercs fight for NPC corporations doing battle against one another day in and day out one after another after another. Each battle has clone loss in the neighbourhood of 150 clones (one side) to 300 clones for an all out slaughter.

Even now with lowish market values a "T2" Dust suit costs around 200+ thousand isk. People are raging on the dust forums daily about "proto" stomps wherein player are suiting up in their best gear and wrecking the opposing teams. This gear is used on a regular basis. Not just for PC battles.

This is the norm. All that isk from just on average 3k Dust players in game from server up to server down time. Not to mention the clone packs corps used to pay 20 mil+ a pop for to move clones to conquer districts. If you were producing their gear you would gain isk and resources from them.

In a market driven game to me it makes sense to attempt to sell products and services to them, and vice versa, contracting soldiers to protect your planets etc. You do this in space and its something we should be doing on the ground not just the pirate and empire corporations controlled by NPCs and honestly I believe that Capsuleers would pay better than those cheapskates.



Is it a tarp?

Cassandra Skjem
Big Sister Exploration
#17 - 2015-01-29 00:27:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Cassandra Skjem
Danika Princip wrote:
Cassandra Skjem wrote:


Why should you not be making friends? Why should I be locked out of a C6 because I can't fly a dread, carrier or T3? Why why why, can't a player making money off the planets put the isk they are making off them put it into defending them? Huh?

Edit: maybe you missed the description of Dust/Legion "MMORPGFPS" ask a player in Dust what they do: they fight and die alongside other mercs defending ground for no reason other than they want to kill someone, now give them a reason to fight for something so they can achieve greatness and you along side them. Its not just one merc, it is an army of them.



I have played dust. It was exactly the same as every other multiplayer FPS game I have ever played. There is no draw to that game for me as an EVE player.

if I cannot defend my EVE stuff in EVE, what is the point of having it?

Your wormhole example is irrelevant here. A C6 wormhole is at the very least part of the same game. What you do in your C6 does not affect me in Null directly. Having some FPS kiddie total my PI setup, however, DOES affect me directly, and there would be nothing whatsoever I could do about it within the confines of the MMO I am paying a subscription fee for.

Why, exactly, should an FPS player be able to **** me over without any opportunity for me to defend myself?

Myself is the key word here. Yes, I could rely on my rather large alliance's dust/legion/whatever wing to do it for me, but it's my ****, I should be looking after it myself. PI is a personal asset, not an alliance level one.


Why, exactly, should a child playing a free shoot mans game be able to screw over a long time subscriber in a slow burn MMO with absolutely zero chance for the latter to do anything about it?

So the FPS kiddies drinking with CCP Gaurd and all the rest of you players of the Space game produced by CCP were not dirrectly affected by the Space Jockeys in Eve who dropped the Orbital bombardments on them while they were doing Faction Warfare or having Planetary Conquest Battles and having their OB ships destroyed by you? Give it a rest, grow a pair and man up, defend your turf on their terms like they have on ours.

Edit: Like they can point their Sniper Rifles up to space and shoot you out of the cockpit of your space ship?

Edit: What I do in "my" c6 does affect you I think, how many T3 ships do you own sir?

Is it a tarp?

Cassandra Skjem
Big Sister Exploration
#18 - 2015-01-29 00:44:43 UTC
Djinn Jecture wrote:
I wanted integration not segregation, which we had from the start. I would pay a subscription fee to play as both me and my significant other do (2 accounts each) to play Eve. Hell I have multiple toons training on more than one account now in Eve (roughly $70 cost for myself for one month for my toons).


For those who need help with reading comprehension the underlined portions are for those who can't read like the Goonswarm Federation hacks.

Is it a tarp?

Cassandra Skjem
Big Sister Exploration
#19 - 2015-01-29 00:56:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Cassandra Skjem
Danika Princip wrote:

if I cannot defend my EVE stuff in EVE, what is the point of having it?

You're right, in fact you shouldn't even have it in EVE and you shouldn't be able to defend it even with your Eve assets. Dust bunnies can't.

Is it a tarp?

Cassandra Skjem
Big Sister Exploration
#20 - 2015-01-29 02:03:00 UTC
The point the author of the above quote is making from what they have told me is that they would rather pay a sub to play Dust/Legion than suffer the comments like what the Goon has made. They are not console kiddies they are grown men and women putting time and effort into perfecting their Pew skills just as every Eve pilot does and feel they deserve to be treated with respect just like Eve pilots do.

Narrow points of view such as what the Goon expressed are what led to things like the Ku Klux Klan and segregation of blacks in the early 1900s, Apartheid in South Africa and the current racism in the United States in many areas including but not limited to Harlem, Los Angeles in general and many parts of Mississipi, Alabama and even in Canada in Vancouver for instance.

In this case it is prejudice against those with controllers in their hands rather than keyboards and personally I find it disgusting. If you can't do something yourself pay someone else to do it end of. They are Mercs, hire them. Thats how they make their money in game to continue fighting, not by ratting choice ANOMS in nullsec or harvesting moon goo from platinum moons that players will spend untold amounts of real world money to obtain.

This is reality, yes grown men and women play both games. Get over it and adapt or don't, it doesn't matter in the end really because its just a game. I really do think that the FPS would do better joined in a meaningful manner on the PC rather than shelved on the PS3 even though I suck at FPS games when I need to use a keyboard.

Is it a tarp?

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