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Jayne for CSMX - ELECTED! - Thank you for your support!

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Jayne Fillon
#141 - 2015-01-27 05:45:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Jayne Fillon
Michele Bachmann wrote:
Will your club mechanic be working as intended when the inevitable happens and there's really only 2 large npsi groups and their assorted lackeys A la goons vs. N3 ?
Well.... I gotta agree with Ash. I don't think you know how NPSI works.

Like this doesn't even remotely make sense... NPSI groups aren't just limited to PvP. How do you imagine this would become so perverted that only two social groups would exist, and they would be aligned against one another? There are multiple groups in existence presently, and there will be multiple groups in the future for the simple reason that they have different interests, and interact within the different activities of new eden.

Can't shoot blues if you don't have any. Long Live NPSI.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#142 - 2015-01-27 07:55:13 UTC
Jayne Fillon wrote:
Number 3 on your list is the closest to the proposal that I agree with.

Although there are a lot of voices proposing different versions, under a lot of different names, the original purpose of the proposal was to give the current non-corporate entities the tools and framework in order to prosper as well as giving players from different vocations more opportunities to interact with one another. Take for example, Player X.

Player X is in a large sov holding coalition. To be a part of this coalition, he has to be a part of a corporation, which is a part of an alliance. This is the primary "banner" that he flies under. Now, let's say that Player X wants to join a Special Interest Group (SIG) within that coalition that either uses specific ships (ex. Bombers) or operates in a specific timezone. These people could form a "club" that allows for communication and organization between the individuals who are interested in that type of content.

Now let's say that Player X doesn't want his involvement in a "club" or "society" to be known, maybe he's actually a spy for a different coalition, a leader of Amarrian roleplayers, or - worst of all - a Lore aficionado and researcher trying to unearth the secrets of the Children of Light (Hi, Mark). The idea is that these groups would not show up on your employment history, unless you wanted them to (ex. Decorations) and would allow you to be involved with any and all groups that you wanted simultaneously - or maybe none at all, if that's your thing.

You'll notice that none of these examples overlap with roles held by current corporations, and that's for the simple reason that "social groups" were never meant to replace corporations or provide an alternative. The proposal was intended to be in addition to the corporation system, allowing for a player to become involved in numerous activities within Eve. These "clubs" or "societies" would not be able to own structures, conquer regions, etc. For that, and anything related to building an empire, the corporation mechanic should remains at the forefront.
That's pretty much what I was hoping you'd say, and I'm very much on board with that.

Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Hm ok, I can follow a bit. But then i'm asking myself "isn't this just a mailing list and a channel?" I mean there could be a way that you can click "join club: Boogy Bombers" and automatically be added to the mailing list and chat I suppose. But it's really not that hard to just join a mailing list and a chat. What exactly do you get for joining a "club?" Isn't this just adding formality to a group that's key appeal is the informality of it all?
It is kind of just things you could already have, but clubs could have additional things similar to what corps have - a shared calendar, a shared fitting pool, announcements, potentially a membership list. And yes, all of this could be made externally or worked around with the current system, but the general idea would be to make it as simple for a group to exist and organise content as possible. The more tools people are given to help them arrange this content, the more time they can spend actually doing it.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Hendrick Tallardar
Doomheim
#143 - 2015-01-27 12:23:13 UTC
In this Capstable Podcast discussion the topic of having the CSM 10 candidates personal information remain private came up after CCP announced that will be the policy. Do you agree with Marc Scaurus, your former boss at TheMittani.com, in that your personal information should be put out there in order to run for CSM despite the current climate of people within gaming (in general) investigating your personal life, contacting your family and so forth or do you feel this shift in policy is better for those on the CSM to prevent them from harassment?
Michele Bachmann
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#144 - 2015-01-27 16:04:44 UTC
Jayne Fillon wrote:
Michele Bachmann wrote:
Will your club mechanic be working as intended when the inevitable happens and there's really only 2 large npsi groups and their assorted lackeys A la goons vs. N3 ?
Well.... I gotta agree with Ash. I don't think you know how NPSI works.

Like this doesn't even remotely make sense... NPSI groups aren't just limited to PvP. How do you imagine this would become so perverted that only two social groups would exist, and they would be aligned against one another? There are multiple groups in existence presently, and there will be multiple groups in the future for the simple reason that they have different interests, and interact within the different activities of new eden.



it's just human nature, you can't deny that it's happened in new eden and in real world political situations.

this isn't about how npsi works, it's about how people work in the political sphere whether its new eden or anywhere else.
Jayne Fillon
#145 - 2015-01-27 16:09:37 UTC
Michele Bachmann wrote:
Jayne Fillon wrote:
Michele Bachmann wrote:
Will your club mechanic be working as intended when the inevitable happens and there's really only 2 large npsi groups and their assorted lackeys A la goons vs. N3 ?
Well.... I gotta agree with Ash. I don't think you know how NPSI works.

Like this doesn't even remotely make sense... NPSI groups aren't just limited to PvP. How do you imagine this would become so perverted that only two social groups would exist, and they would be aligned against one another? There are multiple groups in existence presently, and there will be multiple groups in the future for the simple reason that they have different interests, and interact within the different activities of new eden.
it's just human nature, you can't deny that it's happened in new eden and in real world political situations.

this isn't about how npsi works, it's about how people work in the political sphere whether its new eden or anywhere else.
Then why aren't there only two Incursion communities? Why aren't there only two major PvP communities? What about the non-political entities that would benefit from these tools such as purely social groups like BSB et al? What about SirSqueebles' streaming community, Eve-Radio, or even the Anti-Ganking group?

Until you explain to me how all of these groups from all over new eden are going to devolve into a holy war similar to the CFC vs. N3 I'm going to continue thinking that what you're saying just doesn't make sense. Hell, PvP communities make up a minority of the social groups that would benefit from these sort of changes.

Can't shoot blues if you don't have any. Long Live NPSI.
Jayne Fillon
#146 - 2015-01-27 16:32:01 UTC
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:
In this Capstable Podcast discussion the topic of having the CSM 10 candidates personal information remain private came up after CCP announced that will be the policy. Do you agree with Marc Scaurus, your former boss at TheMittani.com, in that your personal information should be put out there in order to run for CSM despite the current climate of people within gaming (in general) investigating your personal life, contacting your family and so forth or do you feel this shift in policy is better for those on the CSM to prevent them from harassment?
I listened to that episode last night, and unless I'm mistaken Marc was in favor of a system that only required you to reveal your real life identity if you were actually elected to the CSM - just running for election wouldn't require you to disclose such information. I think this is the best of both worlds.

For anything you do in Eve, I don't think it's necessary for you to reveal your personal information. However, the CSM is closer to an actual job than it is to an MMO, and the people who elect you have the right to expect a certain standard. I think that enforcing real life identities helps define this point, and increases the maturity of the council as a whole. If your job is literally to represent a group of individuals (virtual or otherwise) and you can't even trust them enough to tell them your name, then I don't know how you can be expected to do your job properly.

Is it a huge deal, or something that I would be up in arms about if they removed? No.

Would I prefer it stay the way it is currently? Yes.

My name is Justin Conroy, I'm a pilot for the RCAF, and I approve of this message.

Can't shoot blues if you don't have any. Long Live NPSI.
ashurman
Doomheim
#147 - 2015-01-27 16:37:44 UTC
Photos of jayne in spandex going for 1bil a pop.
Jayne Fillon
#148 - 2015-01-27 16:38:38 UTC
ashurman wrote:
Photos of jayne in spandex going for 1bil a pop.
That's an awesome photo, you can't deny it.

Can't shoot blues if you don't have any. Long Live NPSI.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#149 - 2015-01-27 17:01:34 UTC
Jayne Fillon wrote:
For anything you do in Eve, I don't think it's necessary for you to reveal your personal information. However, the CSM is closer to an actual job than it is to an MMO, and the people who elect you have the right to expect a certain standard. I think that enforcing real life identities helps define this point, and increases the maturity of the council as a whole. If your job is literally to represent a group of individuals (virtual or otherwise) and you can't even trust them enough to tell them your name, then I don't know how you can be expected to do your job properly.
I fully agree with this sentiment. The fact that the identities of CSM members were known reinforced that it's a serious undertaking, not just a player who's getting early access to info, helps reassure the players that the CSM members are independent and objective. And like you say, if you can't trust the playerbase with your information, then how can you represent them?

In addition to that, because this will only be coming in now, it creates a double standard. Former and existing CSM members who are running are known, while newer CSM members will not necessarily be. While it shouldn't make a difference, I'm more likely to put my faith in somebody who I know is taking it that much more seriously than a random character name.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Hair Loss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#150 - 2015-01-28 01:33:37 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Jayne Fillon wrote:
For anything you do in Eve, I don't think it's necessary for you to reveal your personal information. However, the CSM is closer to an actual job than it is to an MMO, and the people who elect you have the right to expect a certain standard. I think that enforcing real life identities helps define this point, and increases the maturity of the council as a whole. If your job is literally to represent a group of individuals (virtual or otherwise) and you can't even trust them enough to tell them your name, then I don't know how you can be expected to do your job properly.
I fully agree with this sentiment. The fact that the identities of CSM members were known reinforced that it's a serious undertaking, not just a player who's getting early access to info, helps reassure the players that the CSM members are independent and objective. And like you say, if you can't trust the playerbase with your information, then how can you represent them?

In addition to that, because this will only be coming in now, it creates a double standard. Former and existing CSM members who are running are known, while newer CSM members will not necessarily be. While it shouldn't make a difference, I'm more likely to put my faith in somebody who I know is taking it that much more seriously than a random character name.



This is amazing coming from the guy who told me to stop asking about why Jayne was on the Goon's CSM ballot. By independent you mean their goals align with yours. Even in-game mailed me about it!
Kinza
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#151 - 2015-01-28 06:59:00 UTC
Well, after actually reading the whole tread (took a damn while, like 2-3 hours) I find that Jayne (I've flown with him a few times too with him as FC, AKA I AM KOSSEN JAIKKA) and I think that yes he will do a awesome job to be a CSM. Unfortunatly there is a lot of hate going on about in-game actions that had nothing to do with a CSM campaign, but here is the nature of Eve.

Anyway, I hope that he gets there and will sure be on my vote.
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#152 - 2015-01-28 07:25:14 UTC
Kinza wrote:
Well, after actually reading the whole tread (took a damn while, like 2-3 hours) I find that Jayne (I've flown with him a few times too with him as FC, AKA I AM KOSSEN JAIKKA) and I think that yes he will do a awesome job to be a CSM. Unfortunatly there is a lot of hate going on about in-game actions that had nothing to do with a CSM campaign, but here is the nature of Eve.

Anyway, I hope that he gets there and will sure be on my vote.



Well I can respect the sentiment but "going off of ingame actions" is kind of the best thing we have. Certain CSMs get elected based on their actions in wormhole space, or the economic or industrial side of things. What else would you base it off of? High school grades? Field and track records? Ugh
Tora Bushido
The Marmite Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#153 - 2015-01-28 08:23:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Tora Bushido
Jayne Fillon wrote:
For anything you do in Eve, I don't think it's necessary for you to reveal your personal information. However, the CSM is closer to an actual job than it is to an MMO, and the people who elect you have the right to expect a certain standard. I think that enforcing real life identities helps define this point, and increases the maturity of the council as a whole. If your job is literally to represent a group of individuals (virtual or otherwise) and you can't even trust them enough to tell them your name, then I don't know how you can be expected to do your job properly.
Ever thought about the risks it could bring to them ? Not everyone has a job at the supermarket, where it's 'pretty safe' to give out personal info. Some people are taking a huge risk if they would have to make real life info public. Does that mean they cant be a CSM X ? Lucky for them Leeloo already said you dont have to do so anymore (just to CCP).

DELETE THE WEAK, ADAPT OR DIE !

Meta Gaming Level VII, Psycho Warfare Level X, Smack Talk Level VII.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#154 - 2015-01-28 08:31:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
Tora Bushido wrote:
Jayne Fillon wrote:
For anything you do in Eve, I don't think it's necessary for you to reveal your personal information. However, the CSM is closer to an actual job than it is to an MMO, and the people who elect you have the right to expect a certain standard. I think that enforcing real life identities helps define this point, and increases the maturity of the council as a whole. If your job is literally to represent a group of individuals (virtual or otherwise) and you can't even trust them enough to tell them your name, then I don't know how you can be expected to do your job properly.
Ever thought about the risks it could bring to them ? Not everyone has a job at the supermarket, where it's 'pretty safe' to give out personal info. Some people like me are taking a huge risk if we would have to make real life info public. Does that mean I cant be a CSM X ? Lucky for me I already heard Leeloo say you dont have to anymore (just to CCP).
As stated above, if you can't trust the group you are supposed to be representing, then how can you expect them to have faith in you. And I don't believe there's any job where you're going to make yourself suddenly unsafe if your name goes onto the internet. Besides, you're more likely to run into issues if you're super secretive. You'll probably get doxxed and end up with the contents of your email and your full personal information plastered all over the internet.

Edit: Oh and yes, if your personal life is so dangerous that just your name being out on the internet (which it no doubt already is) would somehow endanger you, then you have too many other things to worry about to be a useful member of the CSM.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#155 - 2015-01-28 08:34:31 UTC
Hair Loss wrote:
This is amazing coming from the guy who told me to stop asking about why Jayne was on the Goon's CSM ballot. By independent you mean their goals align with yours. Even in-game mailed me about it!
I agree with one aspect of the campaign, and that means goals align with mine? (that's not to say they don;t, I just haven't considered the rest of the campaign much yet).
Also, I'm not a goon. In fact ask the goons and 99% of them hate me, like with a passion. I'm honestly surprised I haven't been forcefully purged yet.

As for the in-game mail, I sent you that in the hope that you'd stop shitting up people's CSM threads with tears about your corp being terrible.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
D31RDR3
Golden Lion Acquisition and Shipping Services
Duck Workers
#156 - 2015-01-28 20:01:24 UTC
It seems like some of the posts here are made to settle personal, in-game vendettas, while for as far as I can tell, the CSM topics should really be about the CSM campaigns, and the topics the candidates propose. I've read though most of the CSM candidates topics now and I do notice some people really focussing on the in-game aspects, and alot of rumours are being spewed.

A lot of these so-called "questions" are very repetitive and give me the feeling people are just trolling, or trying to discredit the candidates, for reasons that are unknown to me.

No matter the past you had with these candidates, it shows a certain amount of immaturity and disrespect.

I do see a lot of possibilities in these social club things, and I think giving a sort of structure to it might benefit all of the people who use them. One of the issues I do notice now is the massive amount of things new people have to set up before they are able to fully appreciate the NPSI stuff, I'm subscribed to a load of mailinglists, have loads of chattabs open, and so on and so on. It would be a wonderful improvement to be able to take a peek in my calendar, and see if fleets are up, or to just be able to search for recommended fits through the fittings screen or by opening some sort of bulletin board.

And yes, everything is doable by the current mechanics, but sometimes simplification enhances the playability of a game.

Anyways, you've got my vote, and if you win a seat, I do hope you'll find the time to PvP a little.

PS : Die a little more, still havent got your corpse !
Hair Loss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#157 - 2015-01-29 02:59:30 UTC
Jayne,

The news at 11 shows that your main director who essentially ran the corp has left for greener pastures (Koz Katral -> PL). What impact will this have on your CSM run? Will you continue the neglect you have shown to SASH?
Jayne Fillon
#158 - 2015-01-29 03:41:45 UTC
Hair Loss wrote:
Jayne,

The news at 11 shows that your main director who essentially ran the corp has left for greener pastures (Koz Katral -> PL). What impact will this have on your CSM run? Will you continue the neglect you have shown to SASH?
Sigh... really?

Koz left the corp on good terms. It's no secret that NPSI fleets are often made up of pilots who have lower skill points and experience than groups like PL, and Koz simply wanted to fly more advanced doctrines with higher skilled pilots.

It will have no effect on my run for the CSM.

Can't shoot blues if you don't have any. Long Live NPSI.
Koz Katral
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#159 - 2015-01-29 04:09:41 UTC
Hair Loss wrote:
Jayne,

The news at 11 shows that your main director who essentially ran the corp has left for greener pastures (Koz Katral -> PL). What impact will this have on your CSM run? Will you continue the neglect you have shown to SASH?



I think the suggestion that I essentially ran the corp is an over statement to say the least. Jayne has always been at the forefront of anything SASH has done.

I left the corp on good terms, and I wish them all the best in the future.

I think vouches from close friends and corp members are relatively cheesy and predictable - but for what its worth, I think Jayne's passion for and understanding of the game, along with his great communication skills, would make him a fantastic CSM representative - not just for people who engage in NPSI PVP, but for anyone who uses this game as a social platform.
Kinza
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#160 - 2015-01-29 05:49:36 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Kinza wrote:
Well, after actually reading the whole tread (took a damn while, like 2-3 hours) I find that Jayne (I've flown with him a few times too with him as FC, AKA I AM KOSSEN JAIKKA) and I think that yes he will do a awesome job to be a CSM. Unfortunatly there is a lot of hate going on about in-game actions that had nothing to do with a CSM campaign, but here is the nature of Eve.

Anyway, I hope that he gets there and will sure be on my vote.



Well I can respect the sentiment but "going off of ingame actions" is kind of the best thing we have. Certain CSMs get elected based on their actions in wormhole space, or the economic or industrial side of things. What else would you base it off of? High school grades? Field and track records? Ugh


This is Eve, people scam and cheat others because they can. Well I think that all the gameplay at work in eve should be represented. Even if he would had cheated me out of something because of X Y Z reasons. If he was good at it, well good for him. But in any case. trust for someone to work for the game is different than trusting a guy for a corp or other stuff that is realted to you in-game. (If it wasn't clear the way I was saying it, just PM me)