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Jayne for CSMX - ELECTED! - Thank you for your support!

First post First post
Author
Jayne Fillon
#121 - 2015-01-25 15:32:02 UTC
Hair Loss wrote:
While I was in SASH Jayne you were absent for long periods of time, and basically the directors were forced to do much of the day to day running of the corp. If you cannot commit time to running a corp, how can you have time to take on the "second job" that is CSM? Please don't quote some Mittani style delegation response.
First, this is just completely untrue. You can't prove these accusations as much as I can't prove them to be false, so I'm going to move on. It's true I was busier during the months of October and November than usual with a difficult work cycle IRL, but I sacrificed a lot of other things in order to stay active within the corp - including having to stop writing for TheMittani.com.

Hair Loss wrote:
To hide your theft, that funded your recently acquired titan, you have tried to paint Overload Everything as a dying and bitter alliance. However, DOTLAN shows that we have recovered in numbers to the same amount before you took SASH from the alliance. This wouldn't be complete without the mandatory killboard post showing that our ISK killed and efficiency have both risen sharply without your corp. How can you convince us that in the future you will share true information both with us and with the developers?
Ha, and you're accusing me of twisting my words?

First, and I'm not sure how this is relevant in anyway, but the Titan was not funded with stolen assets.

Second, "compensated appropriately" is a perfectly apt description. The towers were purchased using corp ISK, they were managed using corp resources, and when they were lost I sent Doom >8B ISK to cover the next month's lost profits anyway. I don't know how much you thought those towers were worth, but y'all are acting like I stole my Titan from you.

Third, DOTLAN doesn't show that at all - you're either lying, or you didn't actually look. If you're ignoring the fact that we were the third major corp to depart the alliance, maybe this would be almost correct. You're still down more than 100 members from when RNEST and DBOYS were apart of the Alliance, and the second largest corporation in your alliance is currently in a completely different timezone.

Fourth, if you're going to quote killboard stats, you best make sure you don't pick and choose which ones you're quoting. You say that your "ISK Killed" has increased from last month - and to my surprise, it has. Conveniently, this is thanks to a Titan kill that your alliance managed to whore on during one of my NPSI fleets on January 3rd. Such sweet sweet irony.... but anyway, since we're picking and choosing killboard stats, let me pick one that is not smurfed so easily: Ships killed.

Not only is this number down by more than 60% since November, but your alliance has scored half as many kills as my corporation during the month of January alone. Yet DOTLAN, which you so proudly point out, shows you have more than triple our numbers. I hope you're enjoying it there Hair Loss - we weren't.

Lastly, you used all of that to try and claim that I won't share "true information" with the players or the developers.... What?

I feel like a broken record - if you actually wanted an answer to this question, you could have read my answer the last three or four times it was asked in slightly different ways. In the end, no matter what I say you're neither going to believe me, nor change your mind.

Quote:
What makes you a leader in the community? Other than creating Spectre fleet which you rarely FC (I don't think I've ever seen you FC it, let alone do any leadership with it for that matter) what credentials do you have? After talking in depth about starting a freeport in Nullsec for PVP you sat on your hands and instead Coelomate & co did all the hard work to make a freeport happen. Are you just going to be a talking head on CSM or do you actually have it in you to see a project from start to finish?
You're not apart of the command team for Spectre Fleet, so I have no idea how you would know this one way or another. As for never FC'ing for Spectre Fleet, this is provably - and laughably - false... hell, I was one of the FC's during that fleet where your alliance managed to get on a Titan kill. Roll

As for the nullsec freeport, you're going to need a citation or two. Freeporting a region of nullsec is something that I've always wanted to do, but never actively attempted or invested effort into. Are you trying to say that someone else (Coelomate) accomplishing something that I've wanted to do discredits me for not having done it myself? I'm not understanding what you're trying to say here. PFR acted completely independent, and their actions occurred during a time when our Corporation was apart of a certain alliance in the Placid region....

Quote:
Last year you were on the Goons ballot for CSM (#5 I believe). Why did they pick you as their first non-goons (first 4 were in CFC) member on the ballot? What is in it for them? For you? How does your friendship with Nonnak Severin play into this?
What?? Is it so crazy for the CFC to support someone outside of their political boundaries simply because they think it would be good for the game?! I have literally no idea how you immagine Nonnak played into that. My only connection to the CFC is through writing for them on TheMittani.com, where I assume they got to know me and liked what I had to say during my articles regarding the state of the game and combat mechanics.

Quote:
You have a poor relationship with a significant number of people you encounter. As a potential voice on CSM, don't you need to be inclusive and even-tempered when dealing with views that may not match your own?
I have a poor relationship with a very vocal minority, so it would seem.
As for being inclusive and even-tempered when dealing with others.... I'm answering you, aren't I? Big smile

Can't shoot blues if you don't have any. Long Live NPSI.

Jayne Fillon
#122 - 2015-01-25 15:33:32 UTC
Alan Mathison wrote:
Jayne:

Congratulations on what I consider among the top three interviews so far on Cap Stable. It was good enough that, from not knowing you at all, I've just gone through your whole campaign thread, finishing up with impressive thoughts.

You are well spoken, logical, and you present your ideas well.

Some of those ideas are completely new to me. Before your interview my entire knowledge of the NPSI community was being able to parse the name. Now I can see NPSI as a possible alternative, constructive gaming style that can stand on its own, or be an interesting adjunct to regular corp-style play, enabling you to have your cake and eat it, too.

We very much agree that the Wardec mechanic is broken, and why, although you're the first person I've encountered that I've heard say it. I also loved your thoughts on making wars a part of a narrative, instead of just using a mechanic to randomly shoot people.

While I think your ideas may well benefit the NPSI community, I see them as having a larger scope as well, and could be very interesting in a CSM that will be concentrating on corporations and NullSec.

You are on my high list for voting for CSM-X. I'll probably write a bit later with some specific questions, but, nice job on the interview!
Thank you! I appreciate the support and am glad that you enjoyed the interview.

I look forward to answering whatever questions you come up with.

Can't shoot blues if you don't have any. Long Live NPSI.

Klapen
BRIGHT SIDE UA
Verge of Collapse
#123 - 2015-01-25 16:17:06 UTC
I know you have been fighting off some accusations as of the last couple of replies from multiple people, and I am sorry to have to ask you another tough question.......but I feel its my responsibility....

Do you support the addition hats into eve?

This is one of my platform's key points and It's important I know your stance.

Jayne Fillon
#124 - 2015-01-25 16:23:02 UTC
Klapen wrote:
I know you have been fighting off some accusations as of the last couple of replies from multiple people, and I am sorry to have to ask you another tough question.......but I feel its my responsibility....

Do you support the addition of hats into eve?
I think this is very important to the future of Eve, and the Hyasyoda Automatic Transformation System should certainly be applied to characters instead of ships.

Real talk tho, I'd love hats. Way too much of the avatar's clothes are currently hidden by the portrait picture. Lol

Can't shoot blues if you don't have any. Long Live NPSI.

Jayne Fillon
#125 - 2015-01-25 21:21:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Jayne Fillon
I'm getting really tired about answering the same questions over and over again regarding my corporation's departure from Overload Everything. So from here on, I'm not going to answer those questions in this thread - if you ask something that has already been answered I'll send you an evemail including the details of where you can go to read my reply. If you rehash an accusation that I've already fielded during the course of this thread, I'm also going to ignore you. I don't care if you choose not to believe what I've written, that's your choice, just know that asking it again will not receive a different answer.

Questions related to the CSM are, as always, welcomed.

Can't shoot blues if you don't have any. Long Live NPSI.

Awarmingcoat
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#126 - 2015-01-25 21:28:34 UTC
Stop rehashing the same accusation.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#127 - 2015-01-25 21:59:05 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them.

The Rules:
5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.


27. Off-topic posting is prohibited.

Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued to the off-topic poster.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#128 - 2015-01-25 22:39:58 UTC
Jayne, I won't ask you a question about it, but this I really have to ask this dude:
Hair Loss wrote:
Hendrick at the time Noir was under the employment of CFC. I should have clarified that but to me that point and all the others still stand. Appreciate the fact checking though (no sarcasm).

http://noirmercs.com/content.php?3458-Goblins-Reckoning
Are you serious? A merc group was hired out by some goons, and that's enough for you to consider Ali a goon CSM candidate?
And believe it or not, goon candidate lists are based around what the goons think would add the most benefit to the game from their point of view. That doesn't mean everyone on it is a goon supporter, indeed some are in fact enemies of the CFC, but their campaigns contain an element that gets them a vote over someone else less desirable.

As for Jayne's CSM X campaign, for what it's worth, I couldn't care less whether or not he took anything from a corp. Half of the candidates running have at some point or another done something "bad". This is EVE mate. That has no reflection on whether or not a candidate will be a good CSM member. If you've got problems with his actual campaign then by all means raise them, but if your objections are limited to "I think he was once naughty in EVE" it's going to fall on deaf ears. So shush.


Now I actually do have a question. Regarding corp lites, social corps, whatever they are being referred to these days would you be in favour of
1. An actual corp where you must leave your existing corp to join them.
2. A social group of which you can have one on top of your corp which comes with a corp-like interface, mailing list, channel, etc.
3. A "club" of which you can be part of many which comes with a corp-like interface, mailing list, channel, etc.
4. Something different to all of the above.

I kinda like the idea of them but am not sure about them being like actual corps. They might move a few NPC players out of NPC corps into what is effectively a specific NPC corp with a channel with people you choose to be with, but the real benefit to them would be if they allowed people from all over to join up and play together. They could even have the ability to have mutual-only wars which either side can stand down with the 24 hour notice to encourage people to fight each other for fun.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Hair Loss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#129 - 2015-01-26 00:53:25 UTC
Lucas,

If you can get past your siege mentality (GRR GOONS all day everyday) you will notice I was actually in your alliance at one point. I also never said anything about being tied to goons being a negative. I asked a question which I know a lot of people wanted to know the answer to.
Hendrick Tallardar
Doomheim
#130 - 2015-01-26 01:33:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Hendrick Tallardar
Hair Loss wrote:
Hendrick at the time Noir was under the employment of CFC. I should have clarified that but to me that point and all the others still stand. Appreciate the fact checking though (no sarcasm).

http://noirmercs.com/content.php?3458-Goblins-Reckoning


Having a mercenary contract with an entity doesn't make you a apart of that coalition nor part of a coalition's political leanings. HTH

Jayne since this got lost in the kerfuffle of OE coming in an complaining about you in the same way over and over again like a bitter ex-girlfriend:

Hendrick Tallardar wrote:
Edit - To stay on topic: Jayne what are your thoughts on the New Player Experience in EVE? What do you think can be improved upon and adjusted to better incentivize players into subscribing etc.?


I would still like to know your thoughts.
Jayne Fillon
#131 - 2015-01-26 15:42:11 UTC
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:
Edit - To stay on topic: Jayne what are your thoughts on the New Player Experience in EVE? What do you think can be improved upon and adjusted to better incentivize players into subscribing etc.?
Oops. Forgot about this question. Sorry!

What do I think will improve new player retention?

Well, I'm going to make this a two part answer. First, the most important thing that CCP can do to improve new player retention is to keep CCP Rise (and his team) working on tutorial and NPE overhaul, as he presented at Eve Vegas. Link Here. His presentation went in depth into player testing with gamers who had no previous experience in Eve, and discussed what players were able to accomplish and what they got hung up on while trying to learn the game. I won't bother recounting the entire presentation, but it really was quite fantastic. I agreed with everything that was said and am really excited to see some of these changes come into effect. If you haven't seen it, you should really give it a watch.... or just go to Eve Vegas. :P

Okay, since I assume I can't just defer my answer to the work of a current CCP dev, I'll include a bonus thought regarding a facet of the NPE that wasn't covered in CCP Rise's presentation at Eve Vegas. Although the high-level UI was discussed, I think that the default overview is something that really is in desperate need of a overhaul. CCP Karkur has done a great job in recent months of patching the otherwise dysfunctional system with sharable overviews, but the default overviews given to a new player are absolutely atrocious. A single tab literally labelled "default" with no information presented regarding how to customize your overview, let alone that you can customize them in the first place.

Knowing what's in space is important, that much is obvious. Being able to identify the important overview items quickly makes PvE a lot easier, and makes PvP at least viable. The default overview makes playing this game really hard - way harder than it has to be - and takes a non-insignificant amount of in game knowledge to be able to customize it appropriately. I know this because I've built my own custom overview packs in the past, and to truly customize your overview to a point where you can actually see what's around you in space requires a working knowledge of XML, or more recently, YAML. There is zero reason, and zero excuse, why CCP can't provide a functional default overview that contains at the very least multiple streamlined tabs.

I can only imagine how hard it is for new players to see the beauty of this game when they're looking at it through coke-bottle glasses.

Can't shoot blues if you don't have any. Long Live NPSI.

Jayne Fillon
#132 - 2015-01-26 16:08:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Jayne Fillon
Lucas Kell wrote:
Regarding corp lites, social corps, whatever they are being referred to these days would you be in favour of

1. An actual corp where you must leave your existing corp to join them.
2. A social group of which you can have one on top of your corp which comes with a corp-like interface, mailing list, channel, etc.
3. A "club" of which you can be part of many which comes with a corp-like interface, mailing list, channel, etc.
4. Something different to all of the above.

I kinda like the idea of them but am not sure about them being like actual corps. They might move a few NPC players out of NPC corps into what is effectively a specific NPC corp with a channel with people you choose to be with, but the real benefit to them would be if they allowed people from all over to join up and play together. They could even have the ability to have mutual-only wars which either side can stand down with the 24 hour notice to encourage people to fight each other for fun.


Number 3 on your list is the closest to the proposal that I agree with.

Although there are a lot of voices proposing different versions, under a lot of different names, the original purpose of the proposal was to give the current non-corporate entities the tools and framework in order to prosper as well as giving players from different vocations more opportunities to interact with one another. Take for example, Player X.

Player X is in a large sov holding coalition. To be a part of this coalition, he has to be a part of a corporation, which is a part of an alliance. This is the primary "banner" that he flies under. Now, let's say that Player X wants to join a Special Interest Group (SIG) within that coalition that either uses specific ships (ex. Bombers) or operates in a specific timezone. These people could form a "club" that allows for communication and organization between the individuals who are interested in that type of content.

Now let's say that Player X doesn't want his involvement in a "club" or "society" to be known, maybe he's actually a spy for a different coalition, a leader of Amarrian roleplayers, or - worst of all - a Lore aficionado and researcher trying to unearth the secrets of the Children of Light (Hi, Mark). The idea is that these groups would not show up on your employment history, unless you wanted them to (ex. Decorations) and would allow you to be involved with any and all groups that you wanted simultaneously - or maybe none at all, if that's your thing.

You'll notice that none of these examples overlap with roles held by current corporations, and that's for the simple reason that "social groups" were never meant to replace corporations or provide an alternative. The proposal was intended to be in addition to the corporation system, allowing for a player to become involved in numerous activities within Eve. These "clubs" or "societies" would not be able to own structures, conquer regions, etc. For that, and anything related to building an empire, the corporation mechanic should remains at the forefront.

TL;DR - Players already interact with one another in a myriad of ways that are not governed by corporation and alliance mechanics. I just want to give them a way to interact with each other in a more meaningful way, and to help players find others with similar interests. Permanent chat channels, mailing lists, community directory, fleet finders, fittings, bulletins, calendars.... give the players the tools and I think we'll all be surprised with what the community can come up with.

Side note: Your war idea is interesting, and not one that I've heard of before.
I'm going to have to think on that one more before answering.

Can't shoot blues if you don't have any. Long Live NPSI.

Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
#133 - 2015-01-26 18:03:40 UTC
Updating the overview is actually not a terrible idea. Although not a unique suggested you nonetheless deserve credit for at least pointing it out. The possibility to share overviews in game was one of the best features that was added. Anyway "your" idea here while decent lays in stark contrast with your "club" idea and i'll show you exactly where things go bad.

Jayne Fillon wrote:
Player X is in a large sov holding coalition. To be a part of this coalition, he has to be a part of a corporation, which is a part of an alliance. This is the primary "banner" that he flies under. Now, let's say that Player X wants to join a Special Interest Group (SIG) within that coalition that either uses specific ships (ex. Bombers) or operates in a specific timezone. These people could form a "club" that allows for communication and organization between the individuals who are interested in that type of content.


Hm ok, I can follow a bit. But then i'm asking myself "isn't this just a mailing list and a channel?" I mean there could be a way that you can click "join club: Boogy Bombers" and automatically be added to the mailing list and chat I suppose. But it's really not that hard to just join a mailing list and a chat. What exactly do you get for joining a "club?" Isn't this just adding formality to a group that's key appeal is the informality of it all?

Here's where our difference in mentality lies. We can agree that there were public fleet type organizations in the form of Agony and RvB. However Bombers Bar is really what kicked off the NPSI renaissance. The group more or less formed together in March/April of 2012. FCs such as Temp, Epoc, Abiss, Eatsbabies, myself and others were working with fleets between 7 to 12 people. It was a big deal when Bombers Bar channel broke 50 people. So everything was very informal, very grass roots and still fairly small.

It wouldn't be until BB migrated from the north (M-O and EC-P8R) in the summer of 2012 to the south (HED-GP) that you would see BB breaking 100 people in channel. It was during this time that we blew up with our exploits being publicized through Eve media such as EN24. Fleets were 20-40 people on a nightly basis. We were ganking the HED-GP Jump bridge, we were blowing up TEST fleets in Delve, then CFC fleets in Tribute. We were everywhere.

With growth came certain individuals that may have had the best intentions but unfortunately politicized the atmosphere. We had councils, voting, economics. It really took away from the NPSI concept and turned a lot of the original founding members away including myself.

It was just around this time (late 2012) IIRC that you even became involved with Bombers Bar. So what you saw was an entity that was no longer the grass roots form of NPSI. You found a highly political and some would say, corrupt, entity that resembled a perverted version of what NPSI was meant to be. You never had the "grass roots" experience to know any different as you directly piggybacked off of Bombers Bar.

Most of 2013 you were involved in the "political" version of BB culminating in the "Redeemer Awox of Temp" event, and the coup within Bombers Bar and true foundation of Spectre Fleet. I never really took much issue with this as Venga (the parent corp of bb) was the entity that allowed such gross misconduct to occur. (If you would have been a little smarter about things, I'd probably would have helped you do a better job of it. Unfortunately...the company you keep gives such great advice...Roll )Their CEO was always more interested in ratting than being an actual CEO. Long time members such as Temp and Epoc have finally left as well.

So TLDR is you don't have any concept of what "true NPSI" is because you're initial experience with it was a perverse politicized version of it, not the original. Your idea of "clubs" is simply the continued reasoning you follow based on that experience. The whole concept is anti-NPSI.

Jayne Fillon wrote:
Now let's say that Player X doesn't want his involvement in a "club" or "society" to be known, maybe he's actually a spy for a different coalition, a leader of Amarrian roleplayers, or - worst of all - a Lore aficionado and researcher trying to unearth the secrets of the Children of Light (Hi, Mark). The idea is that these groups would not show up on your employment history, unless you wanted them to (ex. Decorations) and would allow you to be involved with any and all groups that you wanted simultaneously - or maybe none at all, if that's your thing.


Is there even a demand to hide people's involvement in NPSI? So here's an idea nobody even really asked for.

Jayne Fillon wrote:
You'll notice that none of these examples overlap with roles held by current corporations, and that's for the simple reason that "social groups" were never meant to replace corporations or provide an alternative. The proposal was intended to be in addition to the corporation system, allowing for a player to become involved in numerous activities within Eve. These "clubs" or "societies" would not be able to own structures, conquer regions, etc. For that, and anything related to building an empire, the corporation mechanic should remains at the forefront.


So what is the point? What does this give you over a mailing list and a chat? Again just introducing structure for a concept that thrives on being more or less structureless.

Jayne Fillon wrote:
TL;DR - Players already interact with one another in a myriad of ways that are not governed by corporation and alliance mechanics. I just want to give them a way to interact with each other in a more meaningful way, and to help players find others with similar interests. Permanent chat channels, mailing lists, community directory, fleet finders, fittings, bulletins, calendars.... give the players the tools and I think we'll all be surprised with what the community can come up with.


You already have all of that...


Kelin Amnel
The Cynosural Sisters
Really Strong Alliance
#134 - 2015-01-26 18:37:41 UTC
I really like your ideas on this sort of "Clubs" thing. The ability to have a more structured form of NSPI fleets and provide better tools for management would benefit the community as a whole, The idea could be used in many different situations, depending on what additional tools could be involved with the club. You have my vote :)
Michele Bachmann
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#135 - 2015-01-26 20:00:53 UTC
Will your club mechanic be working as intended when the inevitable happens and there's really only 2 large npsi groups and their assorted lackeys A la goons vs. N3 ?
ashurman
Doomheim
#136 - 2015-01-26 20:18:10 UTC
Npsi cant be broken down into a 1 major power vs another.. as NPSI (not purple shot it) literaly means shoot every1 not in your fleet. Fleets from the same channel engage each other if they run into each other. so the idea of it turning into the new n3 vs goonies (add in Grr goons comment as required) is *to be blunt* silly. It couldnt/shouldnt happen.
That and there is nothing stopping another NPSI group from starting up. in the last few months i know of 2 more that have started to great success alone.
Michele Bachmann
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#137 - 2015-01-26 20:21:38 UTC
ashurman wrote:
Npsi cant be broken down into a 1 major power vs another.. as NPSI (not purple shot it) literaly means shoot every1 not in your fleet. Fleets from the same channel engage each other if they run into each other. so the idea of it turning into the new n3 vs goonies (add in Grr goons comment as required) is *to be blunt* silly. It couldnt/shouldnt happen.
That and there is nothing stopping another NPSI group from starting up. in the last few months i know of 2 more that have started to great success alone.


History repeats itself friendo. And to claim that npsi groups are somehow immune to the same politick thAt rules eve today by virtue of their rules of engagementis the height of folly
ashurman
Doomheim
#138 - 2015-01-26 20:39:15 UTC
well no im not saying there is no politics in npsi *nor in your first statement did you even mention politics*.. but they are much simpler as you just engage everything. there are no blues. there are no reds.. you just kill anything you can thats not purple.

Its quite hard for 2 differant npsi groups to become the new "goons vs n3" as they can just attack any fleet they run into including other fleets from there own channel.

Im unsure of what point your trying to raise other than npsi has politics *regardless of how little*
Michele Bachmann
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#139 - 2015-01-26 20:52:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Michele Bachmann
You seem to think that npsi fleets are some ephemeral thing that doesn't play by the same rules as everyone else. Even in its current form they are far from it and if this CSM candidates ideas are put into practice then they add an entirely new layer of beauracracy and efficacy than they currently have.

What im saying is if you add mechanics similar to the ones already in game what will keep what has already happened from happening again with more bullshit heaped on top?

Challenge mode: you can't use 'because we're npsi' as a reason
ashurman
Doomheim
#140 - 2015-01-26 21:48:21 UTC
"You seem to think that npsi fleets are some ephemeral thing that doesn't play by the same rules as everyone else. "

Well yes thats kind of the point. all the other rules that people play by aka "im blue to you i wont kill you" or "My friends of my friends are your friends so we be bros yo" do not affect Npsi. if its not in fleet they fight it. thats all there is to it. its that simple. there is no huge meta game behind it, there is no drive for sov or moons. it is very literaly your in fleet and you kill what is not.


"What im saying is if you add mechanics similar to the ones already in game what will keep what has already happened from happening again with more bullshit heaped on top?"

Well whats to say that what ever new mechanic they bring out actualy "god forbid" fix's something. And we have been over that the idea of the current "cold war" with n3/goons would not/could not be with 2x npsi groups. And happily with the current way patchs are happening why NOT give it a go? if its ****, if it is crap they can just put there hands up and say "oh **** sorry this is crap" like they did with the indy teams. Least they can try and see if maybe this is an idea that would work.

Also im not the OP so putting to many questions to me is kinda pointless.

Challenge mode: you can't use 'because we're npsi' as a reason < and thats kinda pointless as the reply really is.. Coz were npsi ;)