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[Proteus] Reduction in Fighter and Fighter Bomber scan resolution

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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#481 - 2015-01-09 14:35:31 UTC
afkalt wrote:

I'd bet that it wouldnt stop the exploit either - I'd betcha that an abandon/reconnect would probably work.

nah, reconnect can only happen once a minute
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#482 - 2015-01-09 14:52:36 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:

nah

being able to swap drones is needed for drone users, and putting a global cooldown on drone swaps hurts everyone disproportionately to solve the problem

lowering the scan res of a drone solves the specific problem in the most elegant possible way


Having a timer doesn't limit you from being able to swap drones though, it just delays the process, as it should be.

yeah I am saying that that is garbage and would disproportionately affect other drone havers to fix a problem that is easily solved by lowering the scan resolution of specific drones


Right because its not like we need a reason to discourage drone usage in fleets or anything like that...

it also affects drone havers in smaller gangs and solo

also drone redeploy timer is hella circumventable in fleet fights by not changing drones

it's just a bad idea with too many flaws in it

scan res nerf on fighter(bomber)s is elegant, functional, and without collateral damage



Would depend what the timer is and when it starts. If it starts when you launch drones and is only 10 or 15 sec then a small gang should n't be affected
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#483 - 2015-01-09 15:53:29 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:
Would depend what the timer is and when it starts. If it starts when you launch drones and is only 10 or 15 sec then a small gang should n't be affected

see this is already getting too complicated

the K.I.S.S. principle is in full effect here

modifying the drone scan res is simple

creating an overarching cooldown system for launching and relaunching all drones is not
Agent Unknown
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#484 - 2015-01-09 19:04:32 UTC
Dadrom wrote:
im sorry but i do not agree with the course you guys are taking . Players that spen months training carriers are getting punished for it . If you want to keep nerfing carriers it would be at least decent thing to refund half SP.. since they are now half as needed and effective




Any ship worth using fighters or bombers on is usually the size of a small moon to begin with, so I really don't see how much more harm it'll do. All it does is increase (by a manner of <5 seconds) the amount of time they start dealing damage since they have to lock first.

All this does is stop people from scooping/deploying drones to reset their long volley timers. Because of the change, it's no longer worth scooping since the lock time will be around the same amount of time you would've gained by resetting the volley.

So really, it stops the exploit without it overly hurting carriers/supercarriers.
CrookedSpike
Girls Lie But Zkill Doesn't
Pandemic Legion
#485 - 2015-01-09 19:31:45 UTC
These changes are not in the patch notes...
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#486 - 2015-01-09 19:42:26 UTC
CrookedSpike wrote:
These changes are not in the patch notes...

um, which patch notes are you reading

from http://community.eveonline.com/news/patch-notes/patch-notes-for-proteus :

Quote:

The scan resolution of Fighter Bombers and Fighters has been reduced to ensure that pilots can not gain an advantage by rapidly scooping and relaunching them.


i found this by hitting command-F and entering "fighter" into the search bar
Lee Janssen
Zero Fun Allowed
#487 - 2015-01-09 21:24:42 UTC
Agent Unknown wrote:
Dadrom wrote:
im sorry but i do not agree with the course you guys are taking . Players that spen months training carriers are getting punished for it . If you want to keep nerfing carriers it would be at least decent thing to refund half SP.. since they are now half as needed and effective




All it does is increase (by a manner of <5 seconds) the amount of time they start dealing damage since they have to lock first.



This would be the case... if it was in fact, 5 seconds. The minimum after the changes will however be 15 seconds, which is completely unnecessary.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#488 - 2015-01-09 23:07:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt Ocker
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
Would depend what the timer is and when it starts. If it starts when you launch drones and is only 10 or 15 sec then a small gang should n't be affected

see this is already getting too complicated

the K.I.S.S. principle is in full effect here

modifying the drone scan res is simple

creating an overarching cooldown system for launching and relaunching all drones is not

It is simple and hits the wrong group of players "AGAIN".

And if you want to talk about "overarching cooldown systems" - Look at fatigue, tell me that is complicated as hell.
A simple timer/cooldown to relaunch Fighters and Fighter Bombers is elegant, simple and more than anything, fixes a perceived problem without need for a direct nerf.
Launch your fighters/bombers, they engage and do what they do
Recall fighters/bombers and there is an automatic delay of 5 seconds before you can relaunch them.

- - - - - - - - - - -
Every capital pilot now gets punished because 1 or 2 groups of capitals were using nulsec as their private playground - The problem was not with the capital pilots they played the game that way because the mechanics allowed them to.
It was FLAWED game mechanics and CCP's answer to it was punitive measures placed on EVERY player.
They are doing exactly the same thing here - Supposedly, a small group of SUPER pilots were using drone recall to increase DPS with Fighter Bombers, so CCP's answer is to nerf EVERY ship capable of launching not only bombers but fighters as well.

- - - - - - - - -
Recent balance changes backup that CCP has no foresight or understanding of how the game is played or what roll on effects their "balance changes" might have..
Only a few months ago, Carriers were given the ability to fit and gain benefits to Drone upgrades. This gave me around 280DPS more on a reasonably skilled carrier with 10 fighters. I now had the same DPS as a Machariel and with a few onmis could apply that damage pretty well.

Once this change comes into affect,
I will need to drop the drone upgrades for more tank due to less effective fighters so CCP with one ill thought out, lazy nerf have taken away more than they gave a few months ago. Not only will my fighters take 50% longer to apply DPS they will have far less of it to apply.

It does not, as stated by CCP FOZZIE address the major problem players are supposed to be complaining about.

- - - - - - - - - -
CCP should offer a refund of Capital skills, they are being nerfed into the ground, Fozzie states this is only step one of the balance change. I don't (and don't want to) belong to a group that has hundreds or even thousands of capitals so use of my capitals is being reduced more and more. Give me the option to put the SP somewhere it will be useful rather than stuck in capital ships that are becoming less and less desirable to use.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Daide Vondrichnov
French Drop-O-Panache
Snuffed Out
#489 - 2015-01-10 03:42:56 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:

CCP should offer a refund of Capital skills.


Fixed, QQ bye bye
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#490 - 2015-01-10 03:58:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
Would depend what the timer is and when it starts. If it starts when you launch drones and is only 10 or 15 sec then a small gang should n't be affected

see this is already getting too complicated

the K.I.S.S. principle is in full effect here

modifying the drone scan res is simple

creating an overarching cooldown system for launching and relaunching all drones is not

Obviously a drone launching fatigue + cooldown timer.

The future is us having tons and tons of timers all ticking down constantly.
Sgt Ocker wrote:
CCP should offer a refund of Capital skills, they are being nerfed into the ground, Fozzie states this is only step one of the balance change. I don't (and don't want to) belong to a group that has hundreds or even thousands of capitals so use of my capitals is being reduced more and more.

Let me express the opposite opinion, as someone who "belong to a group that has hundreds or even thousands of capitals". We can take gates now Big smile

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#491 - 2015-01-10 04:16:17 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
Would depend what the timer is and when it starts. If it starts when you launch drones and is only 10 or 15 sec then a small gang should n't be affected

see this is already getting too complicated

the K.I.S.S. principle is in full effect here

modifying the drone scan res is simple

creating an overarching cooldown system for launching and relaunching all drones is not

Obviously a drone launching fatigue + cooldown timer.

The future is us having tons and tons of timers all ticking down constantly.

May as well.. we can all play "timers online"



Who doesn't want to spend years and billions of isk training for the biggest ships in the game, have a character sit permanently in one of the most expensive ships available - And only log it in just to show off how much you spent on the fit.

A billion isk in subcaps should NEVER be able to take down a super as easliy as they will after this nerf.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#492 - 2015-01-10 04:21:22 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Who doesn't want to spend years and billions of isk training for the biggest ships in the game, have a character sit permanently in one of the most expensive ships available - And only log it in just to show off how much you spent on the fit.

Hm. Well that I don't know, I hardly log it in.

But some people screenshot their fit/cargohold or evepraisal their stuff to link in Jabber, so they do show off how much they spent, without logging in.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Daide Vondrichnov
French Drop-O-Panache
Snuffed Out
#493 - 2015-01-10 05:27:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Daide Vondrichnov
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
Would depend what the timer is and when it starts. If it starts when you launch drones and is only 10 or 15 sec then a small gang should n't be affected

see this is already getting too complicated

the K.I.S.S. principle is in full effect here

modifying the drone scan res is simple

creating an overarching cooldown system for launching and relaunching all drones is not

Obviously a drone launching fatigue + cooldown timer.

The future is us having tons and tons of timers all ticking down constantly.

May as well.. we can all play "timers online"



Who doesn't want to spend years and billions of isk training for the biggest ships in the game, have a character sit permanently in one of the most expensive ships available - And only log it in just to show off how much you spent on the fit.

A billion isk in subcaps should NEVER be able to take down a super as easliy as they will after this nerf.


Go back to your theme-park pls !

The most expensive ship isnt supposed to be the best, stop playing if you can't understand that Oo.
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#494 - 2015-01-10 06:32:13 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:

A billion isk in subcaps should NEVER be able to take down a super as easliy as they will after this nerf.


Freighter are even worse at defending themselves against catalyst...
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#495 - 2015-01-10 08:21:33 UTC
Daide Vondrichnov wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:

May as well.. we can all play "timers online"



Who doesn't want to spend years and billions of isk training for the biggest ships in the game, have a character sit permanently in one of the most expensive ships available - And only log it in just to show off how much you spent on the fit.

A billion isk in subcaps should NEVER be able to take down a super as easily as they will after this nerf.


Go back to your theme-park pls !

The most expensive ship isnt supposed to be the best, stop playing if you can't understand that Oo.

Sorry "he with his head in the sand"; I never said the most expensive was supposed to be the best. What I said was; this coming nerf will see them put at an even greater disadvantage when it comes to sub caps.
This nerf is making what are expensive and long term investments for players less desirable to use. You can't see that?? You have a real problem.


As for the theme park analogy.. Eve is doing a great job in heading that way.. No need to go anywhere.


Quote:
Frostys Virpio
Freighter are even worse at defending themselves against catalyst...
Seriously, your trying to compare an unarmed ship to what is supposed to be the top of the line ship in its class? I've been doing nulsec logistics for over 4 years in a Rhea, I still own the original one I purchased. I have lost 3 carriers, none while ratting, and none to another capital ship. Now CCp are going to make their survival chances, against their biggest threat, subcaps, even slimmer.
A carrier will now have more chance of surviving an attack by subcaps than a super will. The carrier can at least launch drones that won't take a minute to lock up a target, supers can't.

Oh and if you don't want to lose your freighter to catalyst's - Use a scout, don't travel common well known ganking routes, change the times you move your freighter, don't auto pilot it.. Any number of things can make freighter moving safer.

To Devs, Keep swinging that nerf bat. No-one wants capital warfare anyway

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

SaS 23
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#496 - 2015-01-10 10:35:31 UTC
Nice, may as well NERF the game while your at it CCP. Oh doh sorry its NERFED already!! EvilRollEvilTwisted
killerkeano
Young Enterprise
Muh Zkill...
#497 - 2015-01-10 13:15:35 UTC
Not that CCP actually read these posts... and do as they please, anyway ...

how hard is 're-launch delay' to launching of the same drone type ??!!

instantly stops the 'exploit' and doesnt apply the nerf to only one class

I'll now use this exploit openly on ishtar and for sentries on a carrier, maybe even for ecm drones too, because if it was an exploit CCP would have fixed it.

CCP claiming this is due to an exploit is a LIE!!
as the same exploit can still be used by any other drone boat, hense NOT FIXING THE EXPLOIT!!!

If it is about fighters that are assigned, remove bonus' from mods to assigned fighters, or remove this old tactic alltogether.

Show one Battle report where Supers have single handedly beat a sub cap fleet as this 'exploit' suggests..

Now show me a battle report that suggests that the ishtar and sentries are broken..


Would rather CCP were just HONEST about changes. Instead of treating people like retards, and doing lazy changes to the game without listening to the gaming community.


just another Fozzie smoke and mirror attempt to further nerf supercaps as they dont have the ability to come up with a place in the game for for the ship class, they will just continue to nerf them to the point where carriers and dreads are a more viable option.

Look at all the nerfs to one class of ship..

nerf HP amount
remove all drones but fighters
Leaving the HEL as useful as a chocolate fire guard
reduce jump range
add fatigue
reduce scan res of fighters

Now in tidi (which is where any super not shooting an SBU will spend most of its active life when not logged off due to lack of content) the time taken to apply damage will be almost 3 minutes.

I've flown supers since they were introduced into the game almost and not only have I never used this 'exploit' I've never seen it used by blues or other alliances.

As previously mentioned with the upcoming of competative games in this genre CCP should be getting the community involved more, as soon that will be the only factor to seperate Eve from other space nerd games, especialyl when you see the new star citizen capital ship models and ideas
Daide Vondrichnov
French Drop-O-Panache
Snuffed Out
#498 - 2015-01-10 13:19:42 UTC
killerkeano wrote:

Now in tidi (which is where any super not shooting an SBU will spend most of its active life when not logged off due to lack of content) the time taken to apply damage will be almost 3 minutes.


~16.9 sec to target a SBU "ZOMG IT'S OVER 9000".
Tra Bull
Risky swarm
#499 - 2015-01-10 16:03:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Tra Bull
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. Hope you've all had a great holiday season. Most of us are back at the office now, and we're putting the final preparations in place for the Proteus release next week.

One of the tweaks we are making in Proteus is to the scan resolution of Fighters and Fighter Bombers, both of which are being reduced quite significantly.

The primary goal of this change is to ensure that rapidly scooping and relaunching fighters and fighter bombers never gives a dps advantage. This practice has not been widespread thus far, but any possible advantage gained this way would both provide imbalanced DPS and cause significant server load so we want to nip it in the bud.

The changes will also have the effect of delaying the initial alpha strike of fighters and fighter bombers, especially against subcaps. Although it is not the primary purpose of the change we are not displeased by this effect, and we do not believe that it will make fighters or fighter bombers underpowered.

I know that some people who are hoping for a major nerf to assigned fighters will be unhappy that this change will only have a small-moderate effect on that activity. We have been keeping a close eye on the way fighters are used ever since our recent rounds of drone rebalancing and we aren't ruling out any potential future changes at this time. However we are not going to rush into any larger changes to fighter mechanics.

The new numbers are:
Type - Old Scan Res – New Scan Res
Dragonfly - 200 - 100
Einherji - 350 - 175
Firbolg - 250 - 125
Templar - 300 - 150
Cyclops – 250 - 27
Malleus - 300 - 29
Mantis - 200 - 25
Shadow – 225 - 30
Tyrfing - 350 - 31

Thanks everyone, and happy New Year!


If CCP will think about future this game.
See on DPS from supers. Need extra boost DPS x3-x4
d0cTeR9
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#500 - 2015-01-10 20:12:06 UTC
Be sure to spam CCP at fanfest about this cap/supercapitals bullshit.

Been around since the beginning.