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[Proteus] Reduction in Fighter and Fighter Bomber scan resolution

First post First post First post
Author
Anthar Thebess
#521 - 2015-01-20 07:52:55 UTC
Tracking of fighters and fighter bombers also have to be reduced.

Aiyshimin
Descendant Command
#522 - 2015-01-20 13:51:04 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Tracking of fighters and fighter bombers also have to be reduced.



Why

Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#523 - 2015-01-21 18:55:56 UTC
This is f#$%^&g bull$*!&

You guys did wonders for sub caps.... but under these obviously biased "in favor of lesser ships" Devs, Rifters online just became Rifters online II: Anti-caps.

I knew there was a reason why I unsubbed 13 accounts so far.... Guess I can - a few more now with a smile on my face.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

Daide Vondrichnov
French Drop-O-Panache
Snuffed Out
#524 - 2015-01-21 19:55:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Daide Vondrichnov
Asuka Solo wrote:
This is f#$%^&g bull$*!&

You guys did wonders for sub caps.... but under these obviously biased "in favor of lesser ships" Devs, Rifters online just became Rifters online II: Anti-caps.

I knew there was a reason why I unsubbed 13 accounts so far.... Guess I can - a few more now with a smile on my face.



I like your tears keep it up.

Fighters assist is gonna be fix soon, w8 n' see.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#525 - 2015-01-21 22:21:24 UTC
Daide Vondrichnov wrote:
Asuka Solo wrote:
This is f#$%^&g bull$*!&

You guys did wonders for sub caps.... but under these obviously biased "in favor of lesser ships" Devs, Rifters online just became Rifters online II: Anti-caps.

I knew there was a reason why I unsubbed 13 accounts so far.... Guess I can - a few more now with a smile on my face.



I like your tears keep it up.

Fighters assist is gonna be fix soon, w8 n' see.

I'm not sure "fix" is the right word.
After all, what is the problem with assigning (can't set fighters to assist) fighters.
They have just has their scan res cut by 50% and tracking reduced, so unless you are using them to shoot a Poco or bigger they will be of little assistance.

I know they will "fix" assigning fighters though. It will be "fixed" to appease the 3 people who complained about instead of playing eve like everyone else and finding a way to deal with it.
Eve is not about whinging to devs about how unfair it is. Or at least it never used to be and shouldn't be.
Every ill thought out, knee jerk, nerf reduces the "sandbox" element of Eve.
One more slice taken out of the "sandbox", just makes it smaller.

I for one would like to see the statistics this change were based on.
I'd love to see the statistics that show assigning fighters is a problem.



The Devs with friends should step back and look at what the changes made to suit their friends are doing to the rest of eve.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Daide Vondrichnov
French Drop-O-Panache
Snuffed Out
#526 - 2015-01-22 00:55:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Daide Vondrichnov
Sgt Ocker wrote:

They have just has their scan res cut by 50% and tracking reduced, so unless you are using them to shoot a Poco or bigger they will be of little assistance.


A fighter can get as much tracking as a light electron blaster, what nerf are you talking about ?

Then no, we are not 3 complaining, every null-sec roamers know this s***, because they had to deal with it one time at least.

Sgt Ocker wrote:

I know they will "fix" assigning fighters though. It will be "fixed" to appease the 3 people who complained about instead of playing eve like everyone else and finding a way to deal with it.


I'm fixed about how you don't know what you're talking about.

Now we know why Kadeshits dont want to get a fighter assist nerf https://zkillboard.com/character/90133694/.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#527 - 2015-01-22 03:00:03 UTC
Daide Vondrichnov wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:

They have just has their scan res cut by 50% and tracking reduced, so unless you are using them to shoot a Poco or bigger they will be of little assistance.


A fighter can get as much tracking as a light electron blaster, what nerf are you talking about ?

Then no, we are not 3 complaining, every null-sec roamers know this s***, because they had to deal with it one time at least.

Sgt Ocker wrote:

I know they will "fix" assigning fighters though. It will be "fixed" to appease the 3 people who complained about instead of playing eve like everyone else and finding a way to deal with it.


I'm fixed about how you don't know what you're talking about.

Now we know why Kadeshits dont want to get a fighter assist nerf https://zkillboard.com/character/90133694/.

So you want a valid game mechanic nerfed because - you think it is unfair??
Had you won the fight would you be crying about how unfair assigning fighters is?

An Ishtar and Cynabal get blapped by a gang of 7 and because there were assigned fighters - it is unfair.
You sound like the kid in the sandbox who's castle just got kicked over by "the big kids".


Should smart bombing battleships also be nerfed 22 kills in 3 mins ? By your reasoning, yes. After all, he is kadeshi and you make a point about Kadeshi using valid tactics to win fights

As I said, Eve should not be about nerfing simply because a mechanic is seen as unfair by a few.
Put the tissues away and look at how you can counter the tactic. Scanning the NYX and forcing it to retreat into the pos is a good start. Bring more friends and start popping fighters is another. Ever heard of interceptors - They are Frigates that can scout . Crying to CCP about how unfair it is, should be the very last resort. And more than anything, shame on CCP for listening.

And yes a fighter can get the same tracking as a small electron blaster (with 3 scripted omnis) but it takes 10 to 12 times longer to lock a target as anything fit with electron blasters.
We roam nul regularly, have had encounters with assigned fighters but certainly are not whinging about losing to a valid game mechanic. What we did was looked for ways to counter the threat.
I suppose we could join the small group who would rather whine to CCP but that just seems childish and not in the sandbox nature of Eve, especially when there are many alternatives.

- - - - - - - - - -

Assigning fighters and bombers only needs to be modified so the ship assigning has to be within its drone control range of the ship the fighters or bombers are assigned to.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Daide Vondrichnov
French Drop-O-Panache
Snuffed Out
#528 - 2015-01-22 09:41:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Daide Vondrichnov
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Daide Vondrichnov wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:

They have just has their scan res cut by 50% and tracking reduced, so unless you are using them to shoot a Poco or bigger they will be of little assistance.


A fighter can get as much tracking as a light electron blaster, what nerf are you talking about ?

Then no, we are not 3 complaining, every null-sec roamers know this s***, because they had to deal with it one time at least.

Sgt Ocker wrote:

I know they will "fix" assigning fighters though. It will be "fixed" to appease the 3 people who complained about instead of playing eve like everyone else and finding a way to deal with it.


I'm fixed about how you don't know what you're talking about.

Now we know why Kadeshits dont want to get a fighter assist nerf https://zkillboard.com/character/90133694/.

So you want a valid game mechanic nerfed because - you think it is unfair??
Had you won the fight would you be crying about how unfair assigning fighters is?

An Ishtar and Cynabal get blapped by a gang of 7 and because there were assigned fighters - it is unfair.
You sound like the kid in the sandbox who's castle just got kicked over by "the big kids".


Should smart bombing battleships also be nerfed 22 kills in 3 mins ? By your reasoning, yes. After all, he is kadeshi and you make a point about Kadeshi using valid tactics to win fights

As I said, Eve should not be about nerfing simply because a mechanic is seen as unfair by a few.
Put the tissues away and look at how you can counter the tactic. Scanning the NYX and forcing it to retreat into the pos is a good start. Bring more friends and start popping fighters is another. Ever heard of interceptors - They are Frigates that can scout . Crying to CCP about how unfair it is, should be the very last resort. And more than anything, shame on CCP for listening.

And yes a fighter can get the same tracking as a small electron blaster (with 3 scripted omnis) but it takes 10 to 12 times longer to lock a target as anything fit with electron blasters.
We roam nul regularly, have had encounters with assigned fighters but certainly are not whinging about losing to a valid game mechanic. What we did was looked for ways to counter the threat.
I suppose we could join the small group who would rather whine to CCP but that just seems childish and not in the sandbox nature of Eve, especially when there are many alternatives.

- - - - - - - - - -

Assigning fighters and bombers only needs to be modified so the ship assigning has to be within its drone control range of the ship the fighters or bombers are assigned to.


Haha guy you're such a joke xD, stop defending skynet, get ballz and warp on grid.

"Me and my friends blabla" revelant blabla wall of text, blabla warp to it blabla blob it, blabla kill fighters blabla, easy to write, have you ever face it ?

Undock pls & show your main.
Calexis Atredies
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#529 - 2015-01-22 12:48:16 UTC
This is a terrible fix for sub-caps getting raped by assigned fighters and nano ships.

You are informed of HAC's getting blapped by fighters in 2 volleys and your fix is to give them an extra 10 seconds to live (given lock time is blanketed by travel time on-grid).

*golf clap*
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#530 - 2015-01-22 14:02:11 UTC
Calexis Atredies wrote:
This is a terrible fix for sub-caps getting raped by assigned fighters and nano ships.

You are informed of HAC's getting blapped by fighters in 2 volleys and your fix is to give them an extra 10 seconds to live (given lock time is blanketed by travel time on-grid).

*golf clap*


Read the OP and you will realise this change was NOT aimed at nerfing assigned fighters used in "skynet" setups.
Aiyshimin
Descendant Command
#531 - 2015-01-22 14:08:11 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Calexis Atredies wrote:
This is a terrible fix for sub-caps getting raped by assigned fighters and nano ships.

You are informed of HAC's getting blapped by fighters in 2 volleys and your fix is to give them an extra 10 seconds to live (given lock time is blanketed by travel time on-grid).

*golf clap*


Read the OP and you will realise this change was NOT aimed at nerfing assigned fighters used in "skynet" setups.


Which, however, was the only issue with fighters, not their scan resolution.

Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#532 - 2015-01-22 23:02:22 UTC
Daide Vondrichnov wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Daide Vondrichnov wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:

They have just has their scan res cut by 50% and tracking reduced, so unless you are using them to shoot a Poco or bigger they will be of little assistance.


A fighter can get as much tracking as a light electron blaster, what nerf are you talking about ?

Then no, we are not 3 complaining, every null-sec roamers know this s***, because they had to deal with it one time at least.

Sgt Ocker wrote:

I know they will "fix" assigning fighters though. It will be "fixed" to appease the 3 people who complained about instead of playing eve like everyone else and finding a way to deal with it.


I'm fixed about how you don't know what you're talking about.

Now we know why Kadeshits dont want to get a fighter assist nerf https://zkillboard.com/character/90133694/.

So you want a valid game mechanic nerfed because - you think it is unfair??
Had you won the fight would you be crying about how unfair assigning fighters is?

An Ishtar and Cynabal get blapped by a gang of 7 and because there were assigned fighters - it is unfair.
You sound like the kid in the sandbox who's castle just got kicked over by "the big kids".


Should smart bombing battleships also be nerfed 22 kills in 3 mins ? By your reasoning, yes. After all, he is kadeshi and you make a point about Kadeshi using valid tactics to win fights

As I said, Eve should not be about nerfing simply because a mechanic is seen as unfair by a few.
Put the tissues away and look at how you can counter the tactic. Scanning the NYX and forcing it to retreat into the pos is a good start. Bring more friends and start popping fighters is another. Ever heard of interceptors - They are Frigates that can scout . Crying to CCP about how unfair it is, should be the very last resort. And more than anything, shame on CCP for listening.

And yes a fighter can get the same tracking as a small electron blaster (with 3 scripted omnis) but it takes 10 to 12 times longer to lock a target as anything fit with electron blasters.
We roam nul regularly, have had encounters with assigned fighters but certainly are not whinging about losing to a valid game mechanic. What we did was looked for ways to counter the threat.
I suppose we could join the small group who would rather whine to CCP but that just seems childish and not in the sandbox nature of Eve, especially when there are many alternatives.

- - - - - - - - - -

Assigning fighters and bombers only needs to be modified so the ship assigning has to be within its drone control range of the ship the fighters or bombers are assigned to.


Haha guy you're such a joke xD, stop defending skynet, get ballz and warp on grid.

"Me and my friends blabla" revelant blabla wall of text, blabla warp to it blabla blob it, blabla kill fighters blabla, easy to write, have you ever face it ?

Undock pls & show your main.
I'm sorry Daide, speaking of mains, where is yours on the killmail you posted. Or, did you just go trolling the killboards until you found what you wanted?

It is such a pity you didn't bother to read my whole post.
Or was it a simple matter of you can't understand it.. Try reading it again, once you have I "might" accept an apology.

I have experienced skynet carriers from both sides, owning capitals and assigning and had them dropped on me. Difference I suppose is, I find no need to cry about it being unfair because our scouts will tell us in advance what we will be facing so we make a decision - Engage or Don't Engage. You don't just blind jump a Cynabal and Ishtar, get blapped and cry about how unfair it is.

The pity is, the few whiners who want "I win" to be in their favor even when facing a better prepared fleet seem to be far more vocal than those who don't want to see Eve nerfed into the ground.


- - - - - - - - - -
Calexis Atredies - Try going to page 1 of the thread, read the OP.
NB; If a skynet carrier and dictor can take out a fleet of Hacs, those Hac pilots might want to consider mining.
Whereas a Skynet carrier and Dictor taking out a Cynabal and Ishtar (who jumped without a scout) is something that should never be considered bad.

Players who want to roam nul in ill prepared fleets or groups deserve what happens to them. Fleets (small or big) roaming anywhere need to prepare for the worst case. If you roam without logi and or at least scouts you have no right to complain when you lose a ship to a valid game mechanic.

In the case provided as an example; A single scout using Dscan could have ensured the Nyx and Dictor didn't get any kills. Or better still, with proper preparation they may have got a Nyx kill.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Daide Vondrichnov
French Drop-O-Panache
Snuffed Out
#533 - 2015-01-23 00:24:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Daide Vondrichnov
Btw your inty scout will travel throught the system to see if there is a nyx on D-SCAN THEN ONLY HE WILL TRY TO TACKLE SOMETHING, WAHOW you SEEM TO be RELEVANT.

Then no everybody don't bring a 50 MAN FLEET TO ROAM.

So YES you're IRRELEVENT.

Stop talking pls.

Sgt Ocker wrote:
The pity is, the few whiners who want "I win" to be in their favor even when facing a better prepared fleet seem to be far more vocal than those who don't want to see Eve nerfed into the ground.


That's what you're actually doing, you're pretty funny
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#534 - 2015-01-23 02:20:22 UTC
Daide Vondrichnov wrote:
Btw your inty scout will travel throught the system to see if there is a nyx on D-SCAN THEN ONLY HE WILL TRY TO TACKLE SOMETHING, WAHOW you SEEM TO be RELEVANT.

Then no everybody don't bring a 50 MAN FLEET TO ROAM.

So YES you're IRRELEVENT.

Stop talking pls.

Sgt Ocker wrote:
The pity is, the few whiners who want "I win" to be in their favor even when facing a better prepared fleet seem to be far more vocal than those who don't want to see Eve nerfed into the ground.


That's what you're actually doing, you're pretty funny

Your inty scout is going to try to tackle a Nyx??
Or do you mean your scout will just go off on his own and not work with the fleet he is scouting for?? You must have a nice group of "friends" if you can't trust someone to scout for you.

We often roam with an 8 or 10 man gang, which more often than not, includes at least 1 logi (2 is better) and a scout. The scout is mandatory, we will not depart without one.

I'm not trying to get a game mechanic removed because I someone told me, it is unfair. Your the one working on that.
Maybe you should go out and see for yourself how "fighter assign" works, rather than listening to others and making an uninformed decision. (surely someone in your corp has a carrier you could try it out with)


The only funny thing here, is you complaining about a game mechanic you know little about, except what someone who made a rookie mistake, has told you.


**I may seem Irrelevant (the correct spelling) to you but I haven't lost a ship by jumping blind to a system then blamed a valid game mechanic for it.
Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary... Sample sentence - His comment is completely irrelevant.
Definition - completely irrelevant - the silliest and most discredited canards. (would seem to fit your replies)

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#535 - 2015-01-23 05:41:50 UTC
Daide Vondrichnov wrote:
Btw your inty scout will travel throught the system to see if there is a nyx on D-SCAN THEN ONLY HE WILL TRY TO TACKLE SOMETHING, WAHOW you SEEM TO be RELEVANT.

Then no everybody don't bring a 50 MAN FLEET TO ROAM.

So YES you're IRRELEVENT.

Stop talking pls.

Sgt Ocker wrote:
The pity is, the few whiners who want "I win" to be in their favor even when facing a better prepared fleet seem to be far more vocal than those who don't want to see Eve nerfed into the ground.


That's what you're actually doing, you're pretty funny


If this mans logic and writing skills are by any means a reflection of his ingame ability... then no wonder he is so vocal against capital ships involved in sub-cap pew pew.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#536 - 2015-01-23 18:42:38 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Calexis Atredies wrote:
This is a terrible fix for sub-caps getting raped by assigned fighters and nano ships.

You are informed of HAC's getting blapped by fighters in 2 volleys and your fix is to give them an extra 10 seconds to live (given lock time is blanketed by travel time on-grid).

*golf clap*


Read the OP and you will realise this change was NOT aimed at nerfing assigned fighters used in "skynet" setups.


Which, however, was the only issue with fighters, not their scan resolution.



The scan resolution nerf was an "easy way out" to prevent something they observed completely different from assigning fighter to other ships. They probably rolled a quick fix like that because they though the practice would potentially snowball. Nerf to assisiting fighter will come, if needed, after they observed the current situation more.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#537 - 2015-01-24 01:31:55 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Aiyshimin wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Calexis Atredies wrote:
This is a terrible fix for sub-caps getting raped by assigned fighters and nano ships.

You are informed of HAC's getting blapped by fighters in 2 volleys and your fix is to give them an extra 10 seconds to live (given lock time is blanketed by travel time on-grid).

*golf clap*


Read the OP and you will realise this change was NOT aimed at nerfing assigned fighters used in "skynet" setups.


Which, however, was the only issue with fighters, not their scan resolution.



The scan resolution nerf was an "easy way out" to prevent something they observed completely different from assigning fighter to other ships. They probably rolled a quick fix like that because they though the practice would potentially snowball. Nerf to assisiting fighter will come, if needed, after they observed the current situation more.

The sad part is that Devs could only see further nerfing carriers and supers as a fix. (there were better options but they would not have appeased as they weren't a direct nerf.)

Assigning fighters will get changed. All we can hope is the Dev in charge of "balancing" the fighter assign mechanic doesn't just take the "easy way out".

- - - - - - - - - -
**Suggestion**

To assign fighters or bombers, the assigning pilot must be within "his" (or her) drone control range.
This forces carrier and super pilots to be on grid, which can only be good for creating pew pew.

As for those who choose to jump without scouts. You will still get your butt kicked by assigned fighters.
BUT if you lift your game and use a scout, you may just get a capital kill on the boards.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#538 - 2015-01-24 02:05:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Having titan style damage scaling by sig so that short of extreme webbing/painting fighters can't out damage the appropriate sized drones on smaller targets and some method of preventing a pilot assigning fighters while inside the normal FF radius of a POS so they can't make themselves effectively immune to repercussion while having a sizeable impact on the battlefield would mostly fix that issue.

Not a great solution but fighters are piloted by mere mortals which could explain why they aren't so proficient at gunnery :s
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#539 - 2015-01-24 22:03:09 UTC
Rroff wrote:
Having titan style damage scaling by sig so that short of extreme webbing/painting fighters can't out damage the appropriate sized drones on smaller targets and some method of preventing a pilot assigning fighters while inside the normal FF radius of a POS so they can't make themselves effectively immune to repercussion while having a sizeable impact on the battlefield would mostly fix that issue.

Not a great solution but fighters are piloted by mere mortals which could explain why they aren't so proficient at gunnery :s

So your suggestion (part of which already applies, fighters can't be assigned from inside a pos) is another round of nerfs rather than a fix that doesn't reduce a carriers capability further?
Simply changing the "fighter assign" mechanic to match "drone assist" (not in drone control range = not assigned) would be the best fix and would make carriers / supers 100% vulnerable to attack.


My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Solaris Vex
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#540 - 2015-01-25 00:38:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Solaris Vex
Fighters are pretty easy to counter already, just broadcast for reps.
Or outrun them they only move at 2500m/s.
Or shoot them, they're sig radius is 400m, for comparison a sabre with MWD is only 300m.

In the battle against PL last December we (HERO Coalition) destroyed fighters so rapidly that PL stopped launching them. If fighters generated killmails our isk efficiency would have been through the roof.

But nothing will stop people from complaining if they can't solo a carrier with their vagabond.