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[Proteus] Reduction in Fighter and Fighter Bomber scan resolution

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Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#561 - 2015-02-17 07:06:28 UTC
Zekora Rally wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Rroff wrote:
By "out of class" damage I'm referring to the fact that fighters with the "skynet" fit can significantly out perform the "appropriately" sized drones for a given target not that they give the ship they are assigned to out of its class damage. Hence my suggestion of using titan style damage scaling so that its harder to use them to alpha small ships.


The carrier has to make sacrifice to grant that damage and apply it. The only problem right now is how they can do so in relative safety. Force the carrier to be on grid and people will fit less omni/DDA/navs.

If you are getting welped with the carrier off-grid, nothing is going to change with the carrier on-grid.


It does change a lot. Fighters dont warp back to the Carrier, they mwd back to it, so there is a realistic chance to kill them if you web them.

RATE LIKE SUBSCRIBE
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#562 - 2015-02-17 15:53:12 UTC
Zekora Rally wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Rroff wrote:
By "out of class" damage I'm referring to the fact that fighters with the "skynet" fit can significantly out perform the "appropriately" sized drones for a given target not that they give the ship they are assigned to out of its class damage. Hence my suggestion of using titan style damage scaling so that its harder to use them to alpha small ships.


The carrier has to make sacrifice to grant that damage and apply it. The only problem right now is how they can do so in relative safety. Force the carrier to be on grid and people will fit less omni/DDA/navs.

If you are getting welped with the carrier off-grid, nothing is going to change with the carrier on-grid.


If the carrier is on grid, you migth be able to drop something on it. If he is now, you have to find him while he apply his DPS. If your scout report getting mauled by 2 frigs who had figther assigned, you are **** out of luck to do anything about it because you don't have any info on the carrier. If he has to be on grid, you can bring enough guns to try to take it down without having to scan his position first and maybe even realise he's sitting by a POS ready to shield up.
Alundil
Rolled Out
#563 - 2015-02-19 15:06:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Alundil
Solaris Vex wrote:
Fighters are pretty easy to counter already, just broadcast for reps.
Or outrun them they only move at 2500m/s.
Or shoot them, they're sig radius is 400m, for comparison a sabre with MWD is only 300m.

In the battle against PL last December we (HERO Coalition) destroyed fighters so rapidly that PL stopped launching them. If fighters generated killmails our isk efficiency would have been through the roof.

But nothing will stop people from complaining if they can't solo a carrier with their vagabond.

LOL no - you clearly don't know how fast they go.

This was from last night.
http://puu.sh/g3jX2/fa783efa62.jpg
6800m/s (3x the speed you think they move at btw)
~~~~~~

And for those who say bring logi....sure. Scouts + Tackle + Logi + more than enough dps to kill a carrier.
Result = scouts and tackle and a hac get blapped/aplahad by assigned fighters before logi can even get reps going. GG

~~~~~

Scan res was not the issue. CCpls

I'm right behind you
Daide Vondrichnov
French Drop-O-Panache
Snuffed Out
#564 - 2015-02-19 20:52:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Daide Vondrichnov
Solaris Vex wrote:
In the battle against PL last December we (HERO Coalition) destroyed fighters so rapidly that PL stopped launching them. If fighters generated killmails our isk efficiency would have been through the roof.


Means that your FCs have noticed that the Fighters were a greater treat than the enemy fleet... lol ?

Sgt Ocker wrote:
Fighters and Bombers are perfectly balanced for use by carriers and supers but are by some, considered OP when assigned. The only problem is, to balance the damage potential of assigned fighters would render them next to useless when being used by a super or carrier.


Super carriers were once good anti-subcap due to their ability to use light, med, heavy and sentry drones, but they have been nerfed why ? Because they've never been design to be anti-subcap plateform but an anti-cap one...


Sgt Ocker wrote:
..look for solo easy targets...



We roam to find people to kill, not our fault if they are easy to kill Roll.

Zekora Rally wrote:
If you are getting welped with the carrier off-grid, nothing is going to change with the carrier on-grid.


We can try to bubble him at least and ping bros for reinforcement, something impossible atm...

Sgt Ocker wrote:
"I jumped without a scout and got dumped on by a sabre and skynet carrier" Scream, Whinge, Cry, Petition - Nerf them, its just not fair.
How unEve is that.


It's much more like "Ok i jump in their ratting system... Warping to an anom...Rattle inside... TACKLED JUMP JUMP JUMP.. Fighters on the grid...****, i'm dead"

Something that many scout pilots have experimented, so now you keep saying "Meh scout the system", Well as a scout you'll check every planets then try to tackle something just because they have an "i runaway button", "I PVP BUTTON", or something like that.
Alundil
Rolled Out
#565 - 2015-02-19 22:08:56 UTC
Case in point - for numbers:
http://pastebin.com/JrahcCmv

I'm right behind you
Jori McKie
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#566 - 2015-02-21 15:54:34 UTC
Gorski blog about Skynet with numbers, real numbers.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=warning&l=http%3a%2f%2fgorsking.blogspot.se%2f2015%2f02%2ffuck-skynet.html&domain=blogspot.se

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#567 - 2015-02-21 23:32:57 UTC
Daide Vondrichnov wrote:

It's much more like "Ok i jump in their ratting system... Warping to an anom...Rattle inside... TACKLED JUMP JUMP JUMP.. Fighters on the grid...****, i'm dead"

Something that many scout pilots have experimented, so now you keep saying "Meh scout the system", Well as a scout you'll check every planets then try to tackle something just because they have an "i runaway button", "I PVP BUTTON", or something like that.

Seriously you guys don't Dscan for supers and carriers or even a support fleet waiting to spring a trap?
Fighters on grid with a rattlesnake?? You sure you didn't just fall for a bait Snake get trapped and now your feelings are hurt. A ratting Snake is possibly the one of the most common bait setups, they have a massive tank and great DPS.
My suggestion to you is train your scouts a little better, if a ratting anything does not warp out when you enter system - there is a good chance IT IS A TRAP.
Don't call for nerfs because you fell for a trap, that is very UNEVE. (although sadly becoming the way many choose to play now)

- - - - - - - - - - -
As for Gorski Car's nice little blog..
Did anyone notice the linked kills by his supposed OP assigned fighters was over a 6 hour period.

His 11 man fleet (worth several billion isk) got 50 individual kills over 6 hours. I don't call that OP at all, I call it years of skill training put to good use.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Daide Vondrichnov
French Drop-O-Panache
Snuffed Out
#568 - 2015-02-22 15:01:31 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Blah blah blah, it's not OP blah blah blah just a trap blah blah blah Rattlesnake bait blablabla


Farm in fleet with fighters assign to you, if someone land, throw fighters = win.

Is it a trap ? No, fighters are a way to farm faster, but are also able to one shot small ship like destro / Frig, much more an over-powered PDW.

Then calling that our complains about skynet are UNEVE show how dumb you are sadly.

I wish you the best "pvp" with your fighters...
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#569 - 2015-02-22 22:50:01 UTC
Daide Vondrichnov wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Blah blah blah, it's not OP blah blah blah just a trap blah blah blah Rattlesnake bait blablabla


Farm in fleet with fighters assign to you, if someone land, throw fighters = win.

Is it a trap ? No, fighters are a way to farm faster, but are also able to one shot small ship like destro / Frig, much more an over-powered PDW.

Then calling that our complains about skynet are UNEVE show how dumb you are sadly.

I wish you the best "pvp" with your fighters...



You seem to have missed the point here, or at best changed it to suit yourself.

Using fighters in the way you suggest has never been put forward as an issue but like most in this thread you have found another way to whinge about a legitimate game mechanic.

Your, generally interceptor (best run away ship in game and considered OP by many), scout fails to notice fighters assigned to something in an anom, so tackles it and calls in his little gang to their destruction at the hands of those fighters. Who is at fault here? The scout who obviously failed to properly "scout", or the guy out ratting who manages to overwhelm your little gang?

I say the fault lies entirely with the scout.

Word it however you like, you are asking CCP to nerf a legitimate game mechanic for no other reason than, it makes things harder for you.
- - - - - - - -
I want bubble immunity removed from interceptors as I believe I could more safely rat with my carriers on grid if ceptors didn't have the OP "nothing stops me" mechanic as a bonus.
Is mine a fair request? Should CCP remove the bonus from interceptors simply because I don't want to have to deal with them warping out of the bubbles I spent 2 hours putting up and dropping on my carriers?

I may be dumb but am not asking CCP to nerf a valid game mechanic simply because it inconveniences me.
This is EVE, find a way to deal, don't cry to CCP about nerfing something that gives your victim an advantage.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Daide Vondrichnov
French Drop-O-Panache
Snuffed Out
#570 - 2015-02-22 23:05:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Daide Vondrichnov
Sgt Ocker wrote:
blah



My main complain is that people are using this feature in order to protect themself without anyway to counter it for the aggressors that's the point, now if they can't get the bonus when assigned or have to be on grid to assign i don't care has they will never take risks with their shiny super.

Now people starts crying because they won't use their super anymore due to a nerf, well just use them to kill caps like they were intended, but oh wait they don't have the ballz to do it, here's the problem.

Are we supposed to stop roaming because ppl have this unfair PDW ? Is it EVE ? Srly ?

In tribute to our scouts : Fighters often land once the ship is tackled, then one-shot him then he warps out, what are we supposed to do ? Runaway if we spot a super in a system ? Just because they are broken ? IS IT EVE ?
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#571 - 2015-02-24 03:44:18 UTC
Daide Vondrichnov wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
blah



My main complain is that people are using this feature in order to protect themself without anyway to counter it for the aggressors that's the point, now if they can't get the bonus when assigned or have to be on grid to assign i don't care has they will never take risks with their shiny super.

Now people starts crying because they won't use their super anymore due to a nerf, well just use them to kill caps like they were intended, but oh wait they don't have the ballz to do it, here's the problem.

Are we supposed to stop roaming because ppl have this unfair PDW ? Is it EVE ? Srly ?

In tribute to our scouts : Fighters often land once the ship is tackled, then one-shot him then he warps out, what are we supposed to do ? Runaway if we spot a super in a system ? Just because they are broken ? IS IT EVE ?

Now back up a few miles here.. You said the problem was assigned fighters being used for ratting, now you are saying the fighters only land after you have engaged, a "lone" ratter with your roaming "gang".
So you going in with your small gang against a ratter is ok, unless he uses fighters because fighters are unfair. Sounds more like your main complaint is, the fighters make it harder for you to get easy kills.

I would love to use my capitals to fight other capitals but due to CCP's range nerfs and fatigue, the likely hood of finding capitals to fight has been reduced.

There is no counter to assigned fighters?? I could say the same about roaming ceptor gangs.
Both comments are wrong, this is eve, you can find a counter to anything. All you have to do really, is stop whinging in the forums about nerfing, long enough to find it.
Put the same energy into finding a counter as you have pushing for an unnecessary nerf, you would be killing ships with assigned fighters.

- - - - - - - - -
"Capitals used to kill caps as they were intended" - Are you also saying subcaps should not engage in capital warfare?
After all, fair is fair - If capital ships should not be used to fight subcaps, then subcaps should not be used to fight capitals.
Daide - I think you need to step back and look at what it is your trying to argue. Your reasoning is just wrong.

- - - - - - - - -
Oh and if fighters landing on grid manage to one shot your ceptor scout before he can warp out - He is doing it wrong, the scan res on fighters is lower than a battleship (around 20 seconds to lock a ceptor), add the fighters have to be in "activation proximity" (withing 4000m) before they can fire, your scout has more than enough time to gtfo. Unless of course he gets pointed, then of course he warped into a trap (few ratters fit a scram) and is gonna die.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Andy Koraka
State War Academy
Caldari State
#572 - 2015-02-27 06:02:08 UTC
So any chance of getting the scanres of Fibos fixed back up to a reasonable level, like 100scanres?

It feels really crappy and unfun to tell your bombers to attack someone and have them sit unresponsive for 3+ minutes as they lock the target dread during a heavy ti-di fight.