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'Sucker-Bubble' mechanics.

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Tiia Doshu
Doomheim
#21 - 2015-01-05 00:19:26 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
It shouldn't really matter how the mechanics work.

Don't warp gate-gate in nullsec, especially when not alone in system.

Drag bubble mechanics are much less likely to affect you then.



Yeah yeah .. I know.

But knowing how to avoid most of them is not the same as understanding how the effect is allowed for in the game mechanics, how it's explained by those who created the game and are supposed to KNOW and explain how a thing works, or FIX it and stop it from working that way.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#22 - 2015-01-05 00:36:23 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:


Ha. You should see some of the semi-illegal grid-fu manipulated bubble traps that pull you mid-system dozens of AUs from your destination direct to zero on a predeterminedspot fully within a large bubble with no chance to cloak or warp or do anything.

Edit - only a few people know the full scope of bubble mechanics and how to create very interesting effects like what I described. I only know about half the tricks, its a closely guarded secret I guess. There is a video fro. About two years back that captures the mid-spCe bubb!e trap, and there is a forum post about it, search if interested.

But yeah bubble!he's can do a lot more then just pull you a few km away fro. Gate


There's a GARPA semi-secret manual that teaches how to play with grid shape and size. Some configurations require quite some efforts to be pulled off but the results are worth it. Pirate

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#23 - 2015-01-05 00:40:58 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Tiia Doshu wrote:
But knowing how to avoid most of them is not the same as understanding how the effect is allowed for in the game mechanics, how it's explained by those who created the game and are supposed to KNOW and explain how a thing works, or FIX it and stop it from working that way.

Welcome to EVE where most mechanics are "intended" to work one way, then players use it in a completely different way. As long as truly "gamebreaking" tactics do not come up... CCP is generally fine with this setup.

Some examples:

- the "MWD-Cloak trick" (results in a slow ship getting into warp quicker under the protection of a cloaking device it was not intended to use)

- the "webbing-a-large-ship-trick" (results in large ships "insta-warping" and bypassing its intended slow alignment)

- "grid-fu" ("grids" are areas of space where you can see everything on your overview. Beyond this "grid" you cannot see anything beyond. Enterprising players have found ways to "extend the grid" out past its intended limit)

- Taking up residence in a Wormhole (it was never intended for people to set up a starbase in a wormhole and live there in any permanent fashion).

- Battle Haulers (before they were rebalanced, haulers of any kind were never intended to fight (let alone in any serious way)... players proved otherwise)

- Faction Warfare was intended to be a "PvPers paradise" (the reality is that it is a farmer's paradise)

- Null-sec was never intended to be "safe" for anyone (with intel channels, friends, and organization you can actually make 0.0 space the safest place in the game).

- Capitals were never intended to proliferate as much as they have (hahahahahahaha).

How did you Veterans start?
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
#24 - 2015-01-05 00:44:26 UTC
TL;DR. Emergent behaviour happens in the sandbox, for no justifiable reason outside of just because. Love it or leave it.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#25 - 2015-01-05 00:46:11 UTC
Tiia Doshu wrote:
Well...the math is faulty then and so is the physics. If the warp computer can differentiate between two canisters in a freakin' asteroid belt, or between a planet and the command center orbiting it ... then it can bloody well differentiate between a gate and a warp disruption bubble...the description of the module does NOT say 'Creates an Artificial Gravity Well' anywhere in it.

And mechanics derived from LAZY mathematical fornula are pathetic....just my 0.02isk.

That's the whole point of a bubble.it specifically designed to confuse the Navigation computer
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#26 - 2015-01-05 00:46:47 UTC
Magic.





Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#27 - 2015-01-05 00:54:43 UTC
Tiia Doshu wrote:
Well...the math is faulty then and so is the physics.

You actually have the physics formula behind warp mechanics and interdiction bubbles? Can you share them with us and show where the current simulation violates them?

Evil RatKid
Lugia3
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2015-01-05 00:56:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugia3
Why?

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik
Ned Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2015-01-05 01:28:09 UTC
Ok, so you are looking for a lore based reason.

I don't know if there is an actual lore explanation for how warp disruption works in Eve. Never looked into it. However, like I mentioned before, similar ideas have popped up in several sci-fi universes. Usually the idea is that prevention of faster-than-light travel is caused by a massive amount of artificial gravity. One example is in the Star Wars universe, where Interdiction Cruisers use their Gravity Wells to pull ships out of hyperspace. There are several times that said ship being pulled out of hyperspace is also pulled wildly off course, so the mechanic is not without inspiration. Not sure how that flushes up with Eve lore, but it's at least a starting point.

Outside of lore, it's just a thing. Deal with it.
Foodpimp
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2015-01-05 02:04:08 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
Magnets.


You do know that only a fraction of the people on here even know the relevance or origin of that post.
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#31 - 2015-01-05 02:26:27 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Tiia Doshu wrote:
Well...the math is faulty then and so is the physics.

You actually have the physics formula behind warp mechanics and interdiction bubbles? Can you share them with us and show where the current simulation violates them?

Simple topograchical defects in space time exert a pull central to their mass but form an arch on space time itself. So long as the path of warp (POW) is held to be offset from the center by Formane's Uterrance (FU) not necessarily relevant to the radius of the defect when taken as a 5th dimensional extrusion of a hyper tetrahedron. The issue comes down to the fact the camera drones use an electron oscillation medium, of which it reacts to photons of a between 200 and 970 photons per square micron. However as said medium is not an accurate medium from which to gather a 3d mapping, you would need to use an electromagnetic capture bottle capable of observing the vector and energy levels of the photons passing through it, then a method to recreate the data in a forced 2 dimensional space for your brain to perceive it accurately.
THis leads to the inherant issue of the camera drones skewing the image as the optical oscillation processor system (OOPS) can not tell the difference of the rotation of the photons as they decay into electrons on the medium. This in turn leads the system to simply recreate a density mapping of the area, then overlay a false color image to better soothe your mind.
Effectively, the "drag bubble" and its field aren't so much ahead of you in a line from your warp, but rather it is occupying a space tangent to you and your destination.
Thus you are with FU on your POW, I would suggest taking the OOPS issue up with the ship builders and switching to tachyon burst receivers, and relying upon a sterile neutrino detector in the meantime.
HeXxploiT
Doomheim
#32 - 2015-01-05 03:15:00 UTC
You know I never really gave it much thought...

Is a drag bubble a glitch that people have come to love and so ccp allows it?
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#33 - 2015-01-05 03:33:16 UTC
Rawketsled wrote:
I'd hazard a guess at that it was buggy code that ingenious players adapted for their own use.

I'm a lowsec scallywag, so I rarely interact with bubbles. Take my entire post with a grain of salt. I think C needs to be on grid with B for the bubble to drag you further.


I certainly hope the mechanics stay exactly as they are. Confusing people(your victims) in combat is a brilliant tactic.



No the code is not buggy, it was programed to work exactly how they do. go look up the old dev blog on them. no bugs, working as they intentioned it to. its suppose to pull you out of warp.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Jean Luc Lemmont
Carebears on Fire
#34 - 2015-01-05 03:33:49 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:


Asymmetrical ships. How are they moving without flying in random directions?


The fact that people think asymmetrical ships would be a problem in a vacuum has always baffled me. As long as the total thrust is balanced symmetrically, you could fly a ship shaped like a crazy straw and it wouldn't matter one bit. We mere humans have built asymmetrical aircraft - indeed Blohm and Voss designed at least 5 of them during WWII . So why is it such a stretch to think that space craft couldn't be built the same way?

Will I get banned for boxing!?!?!

This thread has degenerated to the point it's become like two bald men fighting over a comb. -- Doc Fury

It's bonuses, not boni, you cretins.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#35 - 2015-01-05 03:46:23 UTC
HeXxploiT wrote:
You know I never really gave it much thought...

Is a drag bubble a glitch that people have come to love and so ccp allows it?



yes been allowed form the beginning of there use, here is an old thread i'll edit as i find the official blog:

EVE Forum

btw google is your friend

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
#36 - 2015-01-05 03:54:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Chopper Rollins
Think of a 2 dimensional universe as a sheet. Anything with weight will warp that sheet into the third dimension, making smaller objects fall towards it. That's a gravity well.
In our 3 dimensional universe we protrude into a fourth dimension by warping the 3d environment with our mass.
The lore states that warp drives remove a craft from 3d space and therefore from all friction or drag. Warp bubbles do the opposite, fixing the craft in 3d space and as long as point c is in a straight line with a and b, will drag you into it as you land on grid.
I've been caught once in 5 years in a magical deep space warp bubble. It takes a lot of burning to stretch a grid out far enough for that but it explains those silly bubbles you see mid warp between gates or celestials. Even discussing such a twisted concept is punishable by permabans or temporary membership in a hardcore roleplaying corp, so do not delve lightly into unspeakable things forbidden.
Seriously, what is so interesting about the Forbidden Vault of Secret Mystery anyway?


Edit: Use tacs, get gud.

Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Yang Aurilen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#37 - 2015-01-05 03:58:06 UTC
Foodpimp wrote:
Crumplecorn wrote:
Magnets.


You do know that only a fraction of the people on here even know the relevance or origin of that post.

HOW DO THEY WORK!?!Big smile

Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
Serene Repose
#38 - 2015-01-05 05:05:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Serene Repose
You can actually make a system fold back on itself. You can have an unreachable object on grid. Some of this stuff, OP, defies the logic of quality control in simple craftsmanship and production value. The fly in the ointment is that many CCP people play. You don't know with any certainty if things are "allowed" because these people like to use them, or if there's a broader, techno-reason we should "understand" in terms of allowable parameters.

To further exacerbate this, there are people who play WITH these people, who (when these matters are broached here in GD) say all manner of things to rationalize or justify whatever it is under the guise of being simply an objective, disinterested player. And, as all good arguments go, a THIRD element is - it's not only with the issue you raised. It's in a lot of things like hot dropping, market manipulation, weapons characteristics...the list is rather long.

Bringing up this sort of thing here is very much like spitting in the ocean. Though, I appreciate your "concern."

Shocked

We must accommodate the idiocracy.
Cancel Align NOW
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2015-01-05 06:03:27 UTC
Serene Repose wrote:
You can actually make a system fold back on itself. You can have an unreachable object on grid. Some of this stuff, OP, defies the logic of quality control in simple craftsmanship and production value. The fly in the ointment is that many CCP people play. You don't know with any certainty if things are "allowed" because these people like to use them, or if there's a broader, techno-reason we should "understand" in terms of allowable parameters.

To further exacerbate this, there are people who play WITH these people, who (when these matters are broached here in GD) say all manner of things to rationalize or justify whatever it is under the guise of being simply an objective, disinterested player. And, as all good arguments go, a THIRD element is - it's not only with the issue you raised. It's in a lot of things like hot dropping, market manipulation, weapons characteristics...the list is rather long.

Bringing up this sort of thing here is very much like spitting in the ocean. Though, I appreciate your "concern."

Shocked


The same thing occurs in almost every aspect of real life.
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#40 - 2015-01-05 06:47:24 UTC
Rawketsled wrote:
I certainly hope the mechanics stay exactly as they are. Confusing people(your victims) in combat is a brilliant tactic.


You really think that this is a good idea? Something not internally consistent with other parts of the game? Really?

Wow.