Player Features and Ideas Discussion

You won't see 5 on D-scan, they will not be on D-scan at all.

Looks like you have never used the D-scan.

DSCAN Change is stupid.

Here is a fix. Why have two ships filling the same roles?

Just give
Combat Recons a cov ops cloak, and drop their EWAR capabilities. Increase their tanks and dps output.
Force Recons lose their weapon fittings, and are refocused primarily for EWAR, and Scan Probe use.

I think trying to shoe horn in an entire new mechanic when you have 2 ships doing essentially the same thing is redundant and gimmicky. Just split the roles and be done with it.

Please tell me (and I'm being serious) how this is any different from the force recons today?

Decloaking delay is irrelevant as you'll be hard tackled by the other 5. Lack of 'power' not wholly relevant because there are 5.

If you only ever take fights when you can account for every pilot in local you must take many....

Its interesting to see so many getting worked up over the Dscan trick when its effectively the same as any ship with a cov ops cloak, the only difference is the rook can be probed down.

People already don't like being ganked by surprises. There will be (potentially) more ganks by surprise.

Result: People are not happy about more surprises. That seems very reasonable to me.

What about WH?

I gank folks all the time. We all do. We take what we can get. I'm not against it. I'm saying CCP should be adding PVP tools/mechanics. They shouldn't be adding more ganking mechanics. We'll figure out the gank angle all on our own.

Mass/Range - So we could more easily gank folks rolling wh. It was a ploy by risk averse folks not willing to go all in and engage folks on the rolled in side of a wh that was getting rolled. 100s of pages of 'don't do this' they did it and wh pvp is suffering for several reasons. It's easier to gank rollers, but it's much more difficult (suicidal in many cases) to put a capital ship through a wh for the express purpose of pvp. It's been months and they won't publish any stats on what the change did to wh pvp, so I'm fairly confident many of us were correct in our predictions of the outcome of said change.

D-scan immunity - What is it supposed to do?? I'm not asking for player opinions or conjecture. I'm looking for CCP to flat out state what they thought we would do with this. Recons needed something a little special sure, but taking away Dscan?? Stop smoking the bad stuff. Making it easier to gank folks doesn't shake the game up. It just adds another avenue for cheap one sided fights. (and yeah, we've already stocked are wh hangars w/ various ships/fits to punish folks with this new borked mechanic - shield curse/armor curse/cap stable curse.... 2 flavors of lachesis - we're set!)

A lot of folks keep saying it's no different than (fill in cov ops boat). It is different. Many times I have uncloaked in my proteus w/ 54km point and watched an alert player warp off as I count down my uncloaking delay timer. The alert player had an out. The ONLY ship this doesn't apply to is the bomber. It's pretty fragile, so a guy has a reasonable chance of popping it and getting away.

A D-scan immune recon can land w/ sensor booster running and pretty much instalock and thanks to the new hac tanks, they will be able to withstand reasonable dps until their backup arrives. It's totally different.

Then there is the 'but you can just use combat probes to detect them' - this is another kick in the nutz to solo/small groups of guys. Expanded probe launchers take a ton of CPU and would/will reduce fits including them to garbage. Of course if you're in a large alliance - someone can cloak a cov ops in system w/ combats out and go that way.

I like change. Change favors the agile and adaptable (and I'm pretty sure that has favored me and mine over the years). I don't like bad changes. There is a difference.

They are making a change that will shake things up, that is good for the game. There is much more to this change than just ganking, that's just the benefit that's easiest to see. We've gotten into this before. You seem to think CCP should only make certain kinds of changes, but they need to be able to make a change wherever they see an opportunity. When they added Warp To Zero that was a change that negatively impacted ganking, this is a change that positively impacts it. Finding balance requires the freedom to make changes wherever they are needed.



That thread went about a hundred pages and has hardly moved since the change went in. My understanding is that the effect hasn't been nearly as bad as people thought. For purely rolling holes it seems people have adapted. The affect on pvp caps jumping in is a legitimate beef though.



Per the part that I bolded: Yes, it does. That's exactly what it does. Shaking things up means breaking the cycle of complacency.

Feel the irony here for a second. You live in a C5 wormhole with a group and now have additional options for engaging when you find a target. I live in a C2 wormhole, with a C5 static, solo and now have to be more careful when running sites. You are literally more likely to be the one using these rejuvenated recons to kill me than anybody else I've argued with in this thread. Yet, I'm the one arguing for the changes and you are arguing against them.



My understanding is that you should be bumping them as you decloak. That's what I'm expecting from whatever suddenly appears on my overview. If a T3 decloaks on me I will try to escape, but generally expect to die, unless he didn't pack a scram.

But more generally, without a cloaky warp-in the Recon is going to land in a place on the grid that can be predicted. Only the Lachesis has the tools to overcome this disadvantage. If there is a cloaky warp-in then an Interceptor could catch you just as easily as any Recon warping in could. It would be on grid very quickly after you saw it on scan, possibly ready to lock faster than the Combat Recon due to warp deceleration.



The combat probe option hurts solo players the most, though I've found in this game that most solo players are multiboxers. So the field of people affected is even smaller. I've already pointed out in this thread how true solo players can mitigate this with an alt on the same account. People are acting like they don't use scouts, I don't know... maybe they don't anymore. If this change gets people back to using them then that's just another good reason for it.

You are grasping here. Venture's cost ~250k ISK and huff gas faster than anything with 5 Turret slots (max Gas Harvesters per ship based on skill level 5). They also have 2 points of warp core stability. Why would I huff gas in a Recon which is in the 100-200m ISK range? Not to mention the 5000m3 Ore Bay and that the Recon would have to drop a can to huff gas, and need a hauler.

Hacking is the same deal, Frigates are cheap and the one you will use for hacking will have bonuses for that activity. There is no good reason to use an expensive Recon over a Frigate that costs less than 1M ISK.

The difference is that the Falcon is pre-gimped as a combat ship, while the Rook is gonna dump out a ton of DPS with RLMLs in addition to jamming and being incredibly sneaky. And don't forget that you can always fit a regular cloak on the Rook if you need to go AFK.