Player Features and Ideas Discussion

In theory, yes. I'd try this on the test server to verify once the changes become available though.

A rather interesting idea....

Abusable as in free ships for me and 199 of my closest friends? Combats still work on them.

I would love to see the 200 pilot egg scramble to hop back in thier ships as my smartbombing raven of epic glory goes to work on them. This is the first positive for a bad idea in the whole thread.

I think the Baltec dude would be the only one to go for floating 200 recons in space... which would leave him roughly (not too good at maths) 199 pilots short of doing it.

Large scale I think it's something we can talk about, but no one is actually ever going to leave 200 combat scannable curse in space.... then again, if they were all in unique safe spots.... hmmm......

Fot those who want fights d-scan immunity won't change anything, for those who don't flying will be even more paranoid.
A note about risk aversion:
I'm doing combat sites and anomalies in hisec lately, just chilling from my ventures to null. It's insane in caldari space! You know that story? "An Ishtar, Gila and Worm warped to guristas refuge?" I saw a higsec system with more than 40 players in it. Next jump was lowsec, 0 players, scanner was green.
I'm partially agree with Rise that knowing too much may spoil the fun (just like the time i jumped into whole pack of bnewbies, 600 mil in cargo, heart on the shoulder) but i don't think it's the right way to change it.

In other words, you're buffing the defenses of the cloak-capable force recons, while giving nothing to the non-cloaking combat recons (5 sig isn't going to make any difference to the non-Minmatar as they're still well above 125). The Cov Ops cloak is an extremely powerful offensive and defensive module. Please give the non-cloaking combat recons the full T2 resists so that the changes align with the realities of our internet spaceship game.

A lot of people are against this change, but I actually like it. In my mind, the cloaky recons shouldn't hit as hard (with DPS or EWAR) as their non-cloaky counterparts. Don't forget how strong a Cov Ops cloak is. Outside of metagaming, the most powerful tool to enable a pilot to choose when, where, and even if he/she is going to engage is the Cov Ops cloak. Having that module and good range, but a paper tank and weaker application of effects seems balanced to me.

Love the slot move :) Have you considered having Roden Shipyards selling the rights to CreoDron and giving the Lach a drone bonus? You could replace the med hybrid tracking bonus with a drone HP/damage/tracking/whatever bonus. This is a Gallente ship after all, and its drone bay is as large as the Curse and Pilgrim's. No drone bonus on either Gal recon seems odd to me.

*groan*
That god damn kinetic lock in! Just change the "typical Kaalakiota bonus" to missile RoF and make a bunch of ships suck much less in one fell swoop! Also, give the Rook harder hitting ECM because at the moment, why use the Rook when you can use the Falcon (does it better) or the Blackbird (does it cheaper)?


So instead of putting in a weaker version of the Dscan immunity, and nudging up its power if it seemed too weak, you put it in as full strength, blanket 100% Dscan immune, combat-probing-alts-are-now-required bullshit.

There is no middle ground on this, you either have it or you dont, same as bubble immunity. This bonus will be abused to hell in FW and WH space the 2 places where dscan is your primary (and only (yes yes yes I know about combat probes but you try fitting a probe launcer on a combat/pve ship just to see what's uncloaked just off grid is a joke) source of intel

[quote=CCP Rise]

We're going to go with a lighter resist profile than originally described, setting all eight recons at the former combat recon resist profile. While we still like the goal of making them more fleet viable, their tank was one of their only stand-out weaknesses and we felt that removing it could make them oppressive at smaller scales. To compensate somewhat we've trimmed 5 more sig radius of each ship.

[quote=CCP Rise]

Im sorry but the tank on recons is terrible and really needed the buff. going back on this is a really poor decision same as keeping the dscan immunity

I'm pretty curious to hear from CCP Rise soon.

As much as folks have thrown rocks at him (and I was tempted) he has tried to respond to our feedback earlier in the thread and adjust. We may not like some of the proposed adjustments based on how they effect us but I do appreciate the work the balance team are putting in.

That said, from my narrow perspective of the Caldari Recons...I like any positive change but I'm concerned if we don't get these right it will be years before Recons are effectively touched again to repair or optimize something that could be done here.

1) d-scan immunity...I'm ok with either way. I think there are some creative things we can pull off with it and it ups the ante for certain activites for sure but it's not a make or break thing for me at all.

2). The kinetic damage lock in for the Rook is a pain point. It directly attacks one the biggest strengths (selectable damage) of a weapons line that honestly probably Needs a little help already. Either go back to the 5% damage buff per level or increase the damage of kinetic warheads from the 7.5% per level to 10% per level.

3). T2 resists for the combat recons...this is a critical addition that I honestly think needs to go through. Without them there isn't much "combat" staying power, particualry when compared to other T2 hulls. The d-scan immunity simply isn't enough to come near justifying the ISK cost of a T2 Rook over a T1 Blackbird.

4) Compared utility to like ship hulls... As noted above the Falcon does just as well, has full cloak & cyno capability and the Blackbird is far far cheaper and arguably has a better ECM bonus focused on increased range. You could make a case that the Blackbird might be more survivable than the Rook because of that. I would recommend looking at a similar bonus structure to what was proposed in the Amarr line: give a combined range and jam strength bonus but at an obviously reduced level.

3rd. CCP Rise you won't be seeing more recons in fleet unless they get those resists. Remember what the whole point of the balance pass was.

NOOOO !!

give them the T2 tank back

Ah yes, the HTFU/adapt crowd. Be honest: you'd applaud any change no matter how ridiculous if it gave you the chance to smugly denounce everyone else as a bunch of nullbear whiners.

The spread formation can suck a girthy carrot. Combat probing only works as a mechanic because you can use d-scans to get an initial fix. Without it you're looking at a lengthy, tedious process just like scanning signatures. Pro-tip: this works better for things that move once a day than things that move once a minute. Not to mention the fact that it now mandates that people bring a probing alt just to get the most basic combat intel. Talk about a pain in the dongue.



Not unless the system you're in is absolutely massive. It's fairly easy to spread a few gang members across celestials and have them pick targets up on somewhat narrow scans (often with approximate ranges as well). This can tell you within a few seconds where to put your probes.

Nope.

Check local.
See 10.
D-scan - see 5.
Assume 5 are Recons.
Avoid fight.