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[Proteus - January] Recon ships

First post First post First post
Author
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2001 - 2014-12-28 04:08:21 UTC
I like the changes.

I liked them more with the tank increase, but w/e.

Faction warfare plexes are, at present, run by FRIGATES. Very rarely you will see a few corps that run cruiser gangs. So, if you want the medium LP, maybe bring something that wont be instablapped by awaiting recon ships. Everyone complains about how FW is broken, but I think this will finally start enticing players to use something other than t1 frigs to pvp with. Nothing is stopping FW fleets from ALSO bringing recon fleets, and the Dscan immunity works both ways.

And seriously, dont cry about ECM, cry that you didnt fit to counter it or train up your skills in the sensor operation for your chosen ship racial. Every single thing in this game has a counter. Just because people dont want to fit the counters into their cookie-cutter fits doesnt mean the mechanic is broken.

WH space is going to be a bit more tricky, but as always, WH corps will develop tactics to overcome it. People should start thinking more like dropbears and less like carebears. Watching the hole while your corp is running sites may be boring, but you do what you can if you want to be useful.

One suggestion I would make to CCP, bring back the HAC resists for the ships that are intended for close range combat.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment

Generaloberst Kluntz
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2002 - 2014-12-28 04:13:19 UTC
Adapting. That'sWhat makes EvE brilliant.
Squatdog
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#2003 - 2014-12-28 08:44:20 UTC
Quote:
Faction warfare plexes are, at present, run by FRIGATES. Very rarely you will see a few corps that run cruiser gangs. So, if you want the medium LP, maybe bring something that wont be instablapped by awaiting recon ships. Everyone complains about how FW is broken, but I think this will finally start enticing players to use something other than t1 frigs to pvp with. Nothing is stopping FW fleets from ALSO bringing recon fleets, and the Dscan immunity works both ways.


T1 frigates typically have NOWHERE NEAR enough DPS to effectively run medium plexes.

Stick to what you know.
Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2004 - 2014-12-28 13:07:21 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Stop being so anti social, even jerks like us have managed to find people that like scanning, you dont need an alt, you need a new friend, one who likes to probe.


I found a friend who likes probing, but now I walk funny. :\
Generaloberst Kluntz
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2005 - 2014-12-28 13:42:16 UTC
Squatdog wrote:
Quote:
Faction warfare plexes are, at present, run by FRIGATES. Very rarely you will see a few corps that run cruiser gangs. So, if you want the medium LP, maybe bring something that wont be instablapped by awaiting recon ships. Everyone complains about how FW is broken, but I think this will finally start enticing players to use something other than t1 frigs to pvp with. Nothing is stopping FW fleets from ALSO bringing recon fleets, and the Dscan immunity works both ways.


T1 frigates typically have NOWHERE NEAR enough DPS to effectively run medium plexes.

Stick to what you know.


Nope.
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2006 - 2014-12-28 14:17:47 UTC
Squatdog wrote:
Quote:
Faction warfare plexes are, at present, run by FRIGATES. Very rarely you will see a few corps that run cruiser gangs. So, if you want the medium LP, maybe bring something that wont be instablapped by awaiting recon ships. Everyone complains about how FW is broken, but I think this will finally start enticing players to use something other than t1 frigs to pvp with. Nothing is stopping FW fleets from ALSO bringing recon fleets, and the Dscan immunity works both ways.


T1 frigates typically have NOWHERE NEAR enough DPS to effectively run medium plexes.

Stick to what you know.


Um. What? I wasn't aware of a DPS requirement. But then again I don't fly cheap-o t1 fits, so I don't have problems.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment

Lugh Crow-Slave
#2007 - 2014-12-28 15:22:03 UTC
I think i would have rather had the resists over D-scan immunity
Yazzinra
Scorpion Ventures
#2008 - 2014-12-28 15:47:34 UTC
Shouldn't the tracking bonus on the Lachesis be 7.5 per level? 10% seems a bit high when combined with the optimal bonus. Not sure if its been mentioned in all this d- scan discussion.
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2009 - 2014-12-28 18:24:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Ganthrithor
Komi Toran wrote:

And this is all irrelevant: If he's paying attention, he will avoid you. If he isn't, you will catch him. This is exactly as it is now. D-Scan immunity only provides the illusion of safety, which is why after this change you will find more combat recons being successfully probed down and killed than before.

You know, I'm kinda concerned what would happen if I told you the impact cloaks have on both D-Scan and probing.


It is absolutely relevant, because it vastly decreases the effort threshold required to not get caught, which in turn vastly decreases the benefits of bringing a cloak, which totally breaks the relationship between the force recons and the combat recons. Obviously fitting a cloak makes a ship impossible to probe out, but that's exactly why the ships that are designed around that mechanic make other sacrifices that combat recons do not.

Kmelx wrote:
Devil Seven wrote:
The D-scan immunity is fine because any good fleet has a scout that is worth a damn and can prob the system down in less then 5 minutes.


So basically it would be like roaming is now, only much slower and more tedious. Your selling it to me as a gameplay change that will really benefit eve.

So if you wanted to roam a fleet 10 jumps, and for arguments sake it takes 3 mins to fully probe a system as you have an alt with maxed skills and a virtue set or even a main willing to do it, it would only take you a large isk and skillpoint investment and 30 mins to do 10 jumps, plus you lose either the dps output of that character or the utility that player could bring to the gang.

That's incredibly worthwhile from a gaming standpoint and probing those systems would be incredibly speedy and fulfilling...oh wait what.


Don't forget that things will rarely progress to this stage (scanning every system) anyway, because of the high possibility that the random unaccounted for dude in system is either cloaked or docked. In a lot of instances people will just move on through without even looking, because the effort required to find the combat recon is high and the possibility of being rewarded with a kill is very low. Unless people watched a recon enter the system and warp off to a safe, they're not going to bother.
Arla Sarain
#2010 - 2014-12-28 18:35:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Arla Sarain
Komi Toran wrote:

you will find more combat recons being successfully probed down and killed than before.


Do you know how combat probing works?
Half of it relies on D-SCAN. No Combat recon is going to get probed down unless they are AFK.


Just stop already.
D-SCAN immunity is dumb.
warbds
Stoli Holdings
#2011 - 2014-12-28 20:06:14 UTC
Dumb indeed. WH space is now only for big alliances. Creating content no destroying you mean! Small corporations can't do anything in wormholes which was restricted after the last dumb wormhole patch really do you have brains?

Or do you only want big alliances? Which I personaly hate!!!


Devil Seven
Bandit Baking Club
Freight Train Diplomacy
#2012 - 2014-12-28 21:48:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Devil Seven
warbds wrote:
Dumb indeed. WH space is now only for big alliances. Creating content no destroying you mean! Small corporations can't do anything in wormholes which was restricted after the last dumb wormhole patch really do you have brains?

Or do you only want big alliances? Which I personaly hate!!!




W-space is unaffected by the d-scan change as you have probe looking for you or being used by you and a fleet will still use interdictors and hics to catch you and w-space normaly intended for bigger alliances as it's like null sec
Devil Seven
Bandit Baking Club
Freight Train Diplomacy
#2013 - 2014-12-28 21:51:01 UTC
Arla Sarain wrote:
Komi Toran wrote:

you will find more combat recons being successfully probed down and killed than before.


Do you know how combat probing works?
Half of it relies on D-SCAN. No Combat recon is going to get probed down unless they are AFK.


Just stop already.
D-SCAN immunity is dumb.


There are a lot of idiots in eve
Generaloberst Kluntz
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2014 - 2014-12-28 21:53:48 UTC
Devil Seven wrote:
warbds wrote:
Dumb indeed. WH space is now only for big alliances. Creating content no destroying you mean! Small corporations can't do anything in wormholes which was restricted after the last dumb wormhole patch really do you have brains?

Or do you only want big alliances? Which I personaly hate!!!




W-space is unaffected by the d-scan change as you have probe looking for you or being used by you and a fleet will still use interdictors and hics to catch you and w-space normaly intended for bigger alliances as it's like null sec


Nope either. Wspace in majority does not complain about dscan immunity and we actually like it.
But it's not intended for large alliances lolwat.
Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
#2015 - 2014-12-28 23:24:09 UTC
Generaloberst Kluntz wrote:

Nope either. Wspace in majority does not complain about dscan immunity and we actually like it.
But it's not intended for large alliances lolwat.


That´s funny since almost everybody I talked to thinks it is a ****** change.
It will keep soloplayers out of the lowerclasses so less people to play with and shoot at. Ofc this does not matter for the higherclasses where a few recons are no threat to your farming but just some more salvage after dreadblapping.
And the reasoning for this new mechanic is "it is cool and more fights will happen because of bad intel"......
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2016 - 2014-12-28 23:39:31 UTC
Paynus Maiassus wrote:
Actually you can nerf them pretty severely and they will still have a lot of uses.


Just not WH. Which is what they're built for.

A sufficiently heavy T3 nerf demands a massive WH shakeup.
Dun'Gal
Myriad Contractors Inc.
#2017 - 2014-12-29 01:12:00 UTC
Ganthrithor wrote:
Don't forget that things will rarely progress to this stage (scanning every system) anyway, because of the high possibility that the random unaccounted for dude in system is either cloaked or docked. In a lot of instances people will just move on through without even looking, because the effort required to find the combat recon is high and the possibility of being rewarded with a kill is very low. Unless people watched a recon enter the system and warp off to a safe, they're not going to bother.

You realize that you have just changed your argument entirely, you've literally pointed out exactly why there's nothing wrong with dscan immunity, because it will be no different than it is now. That extra person in local is either cloaked/docked, if cloaked he may show up on grid with you, if docked you have nothing to worry about. In the case of dscan immunity its the same thing. He's either in a combat recon somewhere, or docked - the same outcome will take place.

In the case of wormhole systems, any corporation living in w-space is going to have an active prober on pretty much all the time anyway, so yea the scanning will take place, and they will likely have every ship sig scanned out ahead of time anyway, new sig shows up with nothing on dscan, looks like theres a combat recon in system time to take precautions.
Akemon Numon
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2018 - 2014-12-29 01:38:48 UTC
Looks like the 'let's give Recons too many buffs and then keep the one we (ccp) wanted from before we even released info on the patch change. Let them argue for a few hundred pages and then go with what we intended from the beginning. See players you do make a "difference" and we monitored and followed the discourse closely, however...
Joshua Milton Blahyi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2019 - 2014-12-29 01:44:35 UTC
Akemon Numon wrote:
Looks like the 'let's give Recons too many buffs and then keep the one we (ccp) wanted from before we even released info on the patch change. Let them argue for a few hundred pages and then go with what we intended from the beginning. See players you do make a "difference" and we monitored and followed the discourse closely, however...


People cried, the resists got rolled back.

Your argument is invalid.
Flyinghotpocket
Doomheim
#2020 - 2014-12-29 02:00:13 UTC
was gonna probably stay for this t2 res recons but meh, now that to many cry babies who got wronged by a curse somewhere cried enough to get t2 res takin off.

cry more you babies. maybe you can get t1 frigates nerfed as well while your at it.

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro