Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Bah, humbug to the updated changes.

The resist profiles would have made the ships interesting again. Oh well.

But, this stupid love for Kinetic damage on Caldari ships is just...plain...dumb. Might as well make all missiles kinetic only.

Shame that we've dropped the resists... They'd not have had the staying power of HACs or other T2 ships due to no MWD Sig bonus / base HP other classes have. I guess we'll see how things pan out.

I'm liking the Pilgrim change to be a combination of range and strength. It's a step in the right direction, but can I question why all of the Force Recons have the same Ewar bonuses as the Combat Recons apart from the Pilgrim and Curse? I'm not saying it necessarily needs to match between the 2 but considering how strong the dscan bonus is it seems a little crazy for the Curse to be able to Neut so much better than the Pilgrim at the moment?

What's the harm in the Pilgrim keeping the current neut strength but getting ~20km+ range?

I can't understand why you guys are making things so complicated, just keep the t2 resist and do away with the d-scan immunity. And for the love of god almighty stop with the damage specific bonuses.

I've read the last ten pages or so and It is troubling that so many people don't understand the value of the d-scan immunity change. Rise hasn't explained the reasoning for why this is a necessary change but I think I know what they are after and I support it. Its not a gimmick, and its not "broken". It will mean some significant changes in low- and null-sec which will, for once, force you to learn some new techniques.

If you have the discipline to change and adapt, making combat recons immune to d-scan will help you, too. Try to think of ways that this change will help you instead of just complaining.


O. Faeces

CCP, your terribad forums won't let me use more than 3 quote blocks, no matter if they are nested or not. Get a real forum. Now then. Back to topic...

"Let's close the gap between Tech 3s and Recons and make Recons more viable in fleets.

We will do this by adding a bonus to D-scans, which won't ever affect fleets.

Oh, we're also rolling back the resistances change, which would have made them more viable in fleets.

Have fun playing Tech 3s Online."

QFT

"Not ANOTHER kinetic lock in :("

QFT

"How exactly does a black ops rebalance affect the usability of recons in fleet fights?"

QFT. It doesn't. Force Recons and T3s use too much jump fuel to be used in more than token numbers.



QFT. Also, now you will have to gut T3s to the point of uselessness to enable combat recons to resume their role as the harder-to-kill recon.



It has always been a bad solo boat. It will still be a bad solo boat. But at least now it can neut out a tackler or target at long point range. Inty got you pointed at 30km? Sick some drones on it. Sling shot out or into neut range and kill him. With only a 12km range, it wasn't a reliable tactic except against absolutely terrible pilots. You can also choose to fit either a third neut or an expanded rpobe launcher. The Curse was always the solo neut recon.


CCP Rise, I am disappoint.

this is a frigate bonus, not a recon ship bonus...

you want to nerf ecm into the ground?
ok, your choice, but give caldari recons some kind of usefful bonus not this crap. you give falcon 3 guns, a dmg bonus, and 3 low slots...really? oh, and 2 light drones... is this some kind of joke?
how about you decide what role this ship should do in eve? atm the falcon is some kind of lame rook, with a cov op cloak;
with these proposed changes there is no need anyone will use a falcon over a rook; same ecm bonuses, lower ehp/dmg, say hello to the new "pilgrim'....

Oh.. the tears in this thread proves that ^2 :)

m8, how can you go on about recons possibly becoming too tanky when we have 250k EHP Lokis and Proteii throwing webs and long points out to 80km? I know your background. I know you used to be a small-gang and solo pvper before going to work for CCP. So I understand where you're coming from. But you clearly are not seeing the whole picture.

T3s are so much better than combat recons that there is literally no reason to ever use a recon when you have a T3 pilot. They are ridiculously OP. The only reason we don't see more Jamgus is because they don't get a strength bonus. The only reason we don't see more neut Legions is because they don't get a range bonus; the same bonus that the Pilgrim lacked and is now getting. Legions and Proteii don't get TD or damp bonuses. Niether does the Loki get a TP bonus. So they will never be seen. Caldari only needs one EWAR.

If you need long-range webs or long points and you have a Loki or Proteus available, you take the T3 because it won't get dumpstered in the first 20 seconds. If you need the covert cloak for blops, np, just slap that covert recon subsystem on and call it good. When you need a tanked cyno ship, you bring the Proteus or Legion and tank it up to 250k EHP because it has a cruiser sigRad and a BS buffer. But when you want ECM, you bring a Falcon. Why? Covert cloak and not terrible range. Covert ships can at least get onto field, into position, and apply its EWAR, even if it is weaker than the combat recons.

Combat Recons do not have that luxury. They have shorter range than force recons on their EWAR. So they must by necessity have a better tank. Otherwise there is no reason to field them, especially when T3s can do the job and be reasonably assured of not dying instantly.

Whatever buffs are not applied to combat recons will have to be made up in nerfs to T3s. And since T3s are better HACs and Recons than HACs and Recons, you will have to gut them. So split the difference by buffing Recon resists to full T2 levels. Then you can nerf T3s so that they are not better than HACs with some sort of PG and/or tank nerfs, and apply only a slight nerf to their EWAR capabilities. 50% reduction in loki/proteus EWAR bonuses sounds about right. Leave the Tengu and Legion where they are.

T3s will be fine if they still have more tank than a recon so long as they aren't just as effective.

CCP Rise, if you do not buff combat recon tanks, you will have no choice but to gut T3s for everything. Give Combat Recons full T2 resists. I honestly do not believe they will suddenly become oppressive in small gangs because we already have T3s doing exactly that in both small gangs and large fleets. The need for them to be at closer range means they will be in more danger.

Then you can look at T3 EWAR and ECM and maybe make some retroactive adjustments to keep all four lines of ships (F/C Recons, HACs, and T3s) viable and interesting.

Thinking about this, I realized that it may be a good idea to just give us "normal" T2 EWar cruiser in position of combat recon. Resists, 2 racial EWar forms - and that's it, no need for both recons to try to be sneaky... and even more sneaky.

I'm not against d-scan immunity or whatever mech like that, I just think that having something simple will go a long way, all the while we can test new ideas on new ships. For example, how about d-scan immunity on, say, Caldari and Minmatar T3 destroyers in one of their configurations?

I know exactly what values they have and how they will be used. That is why i think they are ****.