Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Yeah, this is exactly what I was worried about, when I posted my feedback a couple of days ago, after Rise said "Dscan immunity is staying, but EHP is being looked into".

Seriously, for the love of god, if it has to be one or the other, drop the immunity and give us the resists.

I will go ahead and throw my opinion in here:

Not a fan of dscan immunity. It makes flying the ship neat in a fleet because you can sit on a plex and surprise the hell out of a lot of solo players. Hide fleet numbers, etc.

It makes flying the ship fun but kind of defeats the purpose of all of the tools we rely on in wh space.

-1

Reference the resists...really survivability period...it would make them a more formidable ship in solo work, however, a little bit of ECCM goes a very long way in countering ECM. The effects in small gang fights are real but they certainly aren't jamming any more targets or any more effectively just lasting on the field a little longer. They would be far from invincible but certainly more serviceable than they are now.

Additionally, they still sacrifice any serious tank lo run their primary functionality. The resists and mild eHP buff really gives them more cushion to GTFO or call for logi if you happen to have anything with reps handy. As I noted earlier the d-scan immunity frankly just isn't enough to make you want to run the ships over their T1 cousins for the vast majority of applications or the current Force Recon varieties.

Consider this...what if you are trying to make essentially an Electronic Attack Cruiser; in theory it would share a fair amount of mobility and shouldn't be left behind in survivability to apply it's "attack" effects the way other ships apply lethal effects.

As for the TLDR - well said and I tend to agree with you. As pointed out, treat it like what it is, a T2 EWAR Cruiser and that has nothing to do with Recon work. The bonuses should focus on applying its effects. If the intent is to make it more of a recon boat then focus the bonuses on that (i.e. bare bones offensive capability, good speed, very low sig, big bonus to scan range and resolution, target painting, cloak, etc).

D-scan immunity is staying because they figured out a chunk of legacy code and they're gonna prove it even if it kills us.

Soo. Since everyone and their shmother already discussed the rest of the changes, I'm only going to ask this.

Okay, so lach gets the fourth low to "get a viable armour tank".
...Meanwhile since force and combat recons will have same resists, we already have a 4low lach. It's called Arazu and will have the very same lows and the very same resist profile.

The difference being one has a covops cloak and a covert cyno, the other has the stupid gimmick and 16% more mids.
So what's the actual difference between the two? Well, other then arazu being useful in blops.

Ah yes, ye ol' stealth Caldari "nerf-bonus".


No "free release" is complete w/o it.



It's like the gift you receive @ the office Christmas party... the same tin of Fruitcake that's been making it's rounds for the past 12 years.


Hooray Caldari !

As an additional complaint, why does the Pilgrim get stuck with terrible range on its primary offensive tool? You don't see the Rapier being stuck with shorter ranged webs than a Huginn. You don't see an Arazu being unable to point as far as a Lachesis. The Falcon and Rook get the same ECM bonus. Man up and give the poor Pilgrim the same neuting bonuses as the Curse.

There's no reason for the Amarr force recon to get a special gimping, particularly since you've already gone and taken a dump all over the effectiveness of both their offensive tools (TDs don't work against drones or missiles-- the two best small-gang weapons systems at the moment-- and ASBs have seriously impacted the effectiveness of neuts vs active tanks in solo / small gang settings).

10/10 troll on the market speculators; so much for getting recons to be used more in fleets

CCP "Mouthpiece" Rise is still here and active, good to know.

You take a perfectly reasonable change (giving combat recons t2 resists or slot changes and even maybe *gasp* the ability to do combat), and say naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

But the crappy, gimmicky and only abuse-able mechanic? Lets just keep that regardless of what the playerbase says, my god Rise. No dscan and cloaking is the cloaky recon's job, how freaking hard is that to accept? You don't need to slap a useless bow on the combat recon; you just have to make the product decent.

P.S. Love the rlml change to the rook, still peddling your crappy RLML base to the public.

Might as well put in my thoughts even though they probably won't get read.

First, lets start with the role of the Recon ships. There are two type, the Force and the Combat Recon. They both share EWAR bonuses, but the Force specializes in Covert Cyno's for BLOP fleets, and the Combat focuses on being an actual combat vessel. These roles, for the most part, are clear if somewhat oddly implemented. Since I focus on Caldari ships I'll use them as examples.

The Falcon can fit a Cloak, Cyno, and two guns, or a Cloak or Cyno and 3 Guns. It does receive bonuses to Guns as well as ECM and Cyno. Because of the abysmal damage, it is probably best to use the Falcon for Cynos and ECM only. A well equipped Falcon can have a ECM reach of 100km, far outreaching it's guns range. My understanding of the Falcon is this, it is a forward scout of a Black Ops Fleet or maybe just a normal small, that once the fleet engages, the Falcon can provide some EWAR at a safe range. It is by no means a combat vessel and as such, should rely on aligning as a defense. My suggestion is to move the Falcon and its Force Recon brothers into this more niche role of forward scout. Here are my suggested changes for the Falcon.

Caldari Cruiser bonuses:
10% reduction in ECM Target Jammer activation cost
30% bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength

Recon Ships bonuses:
20% bonus to Combat Scanner Probe strength
20% reduction in Cloaking Devices CPU requirement
10% reduction in scan time of Combat Scanner Probes.

Role Bonus:
80% reduction in Cynosural Field Generator liquid ozone consumption
50% reduction in Cynosural Field Generator duration
• Can fit Covert Ops Cloaking Device and Covert Cynosural Field Generator
• Cloak reactivation delay reduced to 5 seconds

With these changes would be -1 High, better base agility and time to warp. So the standard build would have 3 Highs of Cloak/Cyno/Expanded Scanner. Mids of a Prop Mod, ECM (Or other EWAR), small buff tank. And lows being DCU and other utility (or tank for Armor ships)

The Combat Recon is as different to this as the Covert Frigates are to each other. Where as the Buzzard and Falcon would be scouts, the Rook would be like the Manticore. The Rook is the evolution of the Blackbird, a fleet EWAR boat. Because it is supposed to be part of a fleet as Logi is, it has to be able to survive a fleet environment more that just warping at the first sign of aggression. The Combat Recon ship is a HAC that trades damage, and some tank, for utility. Now the HAC is a damage dealer, almost all of its ship bonuses go toward damage. The Eagle gets range and the Cerb gets more damage, then the Rook gets the Utility. That is the Combat Recon role, EWAR while in fleets, and some damage. Here are my suggested changes for the Rook.

Caldari Cruiser bonuses:
5% bonus to Light, Heavy Missile, and Heavy Assault Missile Launcher rate of fire
10% reduction in ECM Target Jammer activation cost

Recon Ships bonuses:
30% bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength
10% bonus to Light, Heavy Missile, and Heavy Assault Missile max velocity

Role Bonus:
Cannot be detected by directional scanners

+HAC Resist Profile

This would be the initial suggested change plus the addition of light missiles to the ROF bonus to encourage RLML on it. Now the Rook needs a means to survive outside of instantly warp out on yellow boxes so T2 resists are necessary if the Rook doesn't inherit the Blackbird's ECM range. These changes would be the less severe changes that would morph the Rook into a fighting vessel with utility instead of the gun and run vessel that the Falcon would be.

Another option would be completely change the Combat Recon's role to Purely a EWAR boat. And that could be done multiple ways but here is one I liked.

Caldari Cruiser bonuses:
10% reduction in ECM Target Jammer activation cost
4% bonus to all shield resistances

Recon Ships Bonuses:
30% bonus to ECM Target Jammer and Lockbreaker Bomb strength
10% bonus to ECM Target Jammer Range and Lockbreaker Bomb flight time

Role Bonus:
95% reduction in afterburner powergrid requirement
• Can fit Bomb Launcher

With this you could add a couple more EWAR bombs, like a bomb that slows in a radius for 5-10sec for Minmatar, one that either warp disrupts for 5-10 for the Gals or a 5-10 sec disruption, and then void bombs for Amarr. Where Stealth Bombers are for hit and run bombing runs, Combat Recons can utilize EWAR bombs in either a bombing run fashion or as part of a normal fleet, in that they would be part of a standard fleet, burn into bomb range then burn back out after they are release the bomb. With the role bonus they'd be able to equip a battleship AB for a slow acceleration into a high top speed.