Player Features and Ideas Discussion

maybe when T3s get a -50% ehp nerf?

Pulling the T2 resist is a terrible idea.....CCP WHY...

Recons are not used because they die way to fast ,its no fun to land on grid and get insta blapped before even having the chance to play :( Remove the immune to D-scan and keep the t2 resists or somthin...

Overwhelming feedback might help guys...

Rise plz keep t2 resists and remove the DSCAN immunity +1

It seems like we're not being heard, so let's keep the thread naught alive

Thats fine..... we will continue to fit damps and TDs to our t1 frgs, domi and ishtars before we bring recons in to a fight. Good fight ccp rise good fight.

I think in the original post that could happen. You'd notice if you'd been paying attention that this is in response to the second round of alterations, where it has now been backpedaled far enough that the only way to achieve balance now is nerfing the crap out of T3s, rather than finding a balance as the original plan sounded like it was going.

I support the original proposal, with increased resists.

CCP Rise already said it, albeit in a different way, and he is not wrong.

Once the dust settles, people will choose the path of simplest execution. Could they probe out every entry and exit, yes, will they, probably not as people fly a plethora of ships not just Recon's and so it is simpler to take a risk. If no-one was prepared to take a risk in this game, like everyone keeps whining, then there would be no losses, as every engagement is a risk.

Everyone bangs on how a whole range of ships are broken, Inties, the Ishtar, T3's, etc. So why do we not only see those being flown??

People still make choices, and over time laxity leads to people ignoring even obvious dangers, ie i know there is a gate camp but my inty will land at 0 and get through the gate before they can do anything. Then on the otherside they get pointed by the instalocker and die. Sh|t happens

Maybe rather than whining, people should work on a counter to these ships too

If you ever flew in nullsec, you'd see that 90% of the ships you see taking gates are now interceptors (if only there were a mechanic where every time a travel-fit inty warps out of a camp with impunity, the devs responsible for nullifying them got punched in the unmentionables-- it's certainly what I want to do when I watch them insta-warp off), that Ishtars and their ridiculous droneboat bretheren (VNI, Gila, and to some extent the Worm) are by far the most compelling ships to bring to a small gang fight, outclassing every other HAC / faction cruiser option by miles (they do tons of damage to targets of any size, don't have to worry about optimal ranges or tracking, don't use ammo, get tons of free utility highslots, and their one downside-- destructible drones-- was dealt with when CCP added mobile depots that allow you to use a communal prowler alt to shove unlmited numbers of replacement drones into the ships if you somehow lose them).

T3s are also broken in that they do everything a force recon does, but do it while being un-catchable while traveling (yay interdiction nullification) and actually fitting a tank, at the expense (if you can call it that) of shorter EWAR range (but not short enough to render them unviable).

Thanks for making my point.

There are still wide ranges of ships used, all the tears are because people might need to change their playstyle or do something different, the horror.

You are right though, I am not a “super-leet blue donut pvper” and I am sure I will die to some of these, but I bet I will die to plenty of other things too.
You can understand why Dev’s move on from CCP from time to time with the toxic community that whines about EVERYTHING

Things will change, people will adapt, welcome to EVE

Bro, do you even combat probe?

The more I've been considering the updated post from CCP Rise I think my initial instincts were correct that the T2 resists were really what I was keen to have on the Recon boats.

The d-scan immunity could in fact be a pretty nifty tool to use for small gang operations or raiding mining areas and w-space. I will have a pretty fun time of working out ways to take advantage of the new capability.

That said, I saw far more utility in the updated resistance profile, cap & fitting room, and adjustment in weapons profiles...particularly for the Combat Recon ships. A few other folks have mentioned it but really they are E-War cruisers, not actually recon specialists. They often get called as primary targets for upon arrival on the field and rightly so - they can create some havoc if not dealt with quickly.

If you do a quick cost benefit analysis of the Blackbird vs a T2 Recon ship...right now not a lot of incentive to fly the dramatically more expensive and arguably equal or lesser effective ship. If you increase it's survivability noticeably (comparable resists to HACs and perhaps the MWD sig reduction) that would be worth the outlay in ISK per ship.

Even with some tune-ups to a few stats and the d-scan immunity its just not that attractive of ship without the combat survivability. I'm positive that some folks will have some creative uses for the ship and see some nice successes i'm just not convinced it's going to be worth the SP investment for the Combat Recons.

I think if you split the difference and the Combat Recons were supplied the HAC level combat survivability and you left the Force Recons truly rely on stealth and cloaking for survivability that would be a very solid way to provide some unique options for the Recon class ships. Let the d-scan immunity go in as well and monitor that ship capability closely and see if that's what needs to truly be tuned, removed, or iterated on but don't walk away from the opportunity to supply some real interest and life into the Recon Class ships.