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[Proteus - January] Recon ships

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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#1321 - 2014-12-20 22:19:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

So, either my current and my previous corp are some of the best players in the game... or just using a freaking scout is not as hard as you make it out to be.


Well it certainly isnt the first one and the second is hard if you are a solo or micro gang pvper

Seems that you have presented yet another false dichotomy.

it isnt about bank for some people, its about the quality of the game. We get it, you are a blobbing f1 monkey fighting in large groups where a few recons isnt really gonna be a game changer. There is a place for everyone in eve.

Just because it makes no difference to you doesnt mean it doesnt have the potential to decimate long standing solo and micro gang pvp in this game. Making a change that no one asked or dreamed of and whos potential market is for perfectly one sided ganks seems so off the wall the motives for such a change are questionable.

Recons will be used in fleets all the time if they have a good tank. That seems like a good motive for change. Making them solo ninja pwnmobiles is stupid.

If you have any doubt that they are gonna be solo pwnmobiles, check my killboard in february.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1322 - 2014-12-20 22:27:44 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:

Well it certainly isnt the first one and the second is hard if you are a solo or micro gang pvper


Which, I am. And I'm telling you, it's not hard.

Quote:

it isnt about bank for some people, its about the quality of the game.


Except that the person I was addressing summed it up as "either you abuse your newbies by making them do it, or you pay for an extra account", which is quite simply not the case. That's the only false dichotomy here.

Quote:

We get it, you are a blobbing f1 monkey fighting in large groups where a few recons isnt really gonna be a game changer.


I really don't think you do get it, to be honest I think you're just conjuring things to attack since you don't have anything else to do. I plan on using these. I will be buying several Curses the moment I get on my home computer and boot up my client.

Quote:

Just because it makes no difference to you doesnt mean it doesnt have the potential to decimate long standing solo and micro gang pvp in this game.


And just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not a positive change. This is pretty much the lowsec version of the jump range nerfs. People bawled about those far louder than you lot have about this, and it still went through. And it turns out it was for the better.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
#1323 - 2014-12-20 22:30:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Ab'del Abu
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Sabrina Scatterbrain wrote:
The end result of Dscan buggery will be that wormhole space is dead and current blob mechanics will shift to Recon blobs, good job CCP, good job.


Please explain how anybody but carebear farmers would be hurt by this in wormholes. Especially seeing as how wormholers often fly ships that will reduce a solo recon to dust without much trouble, even after an EHP buff.


As someone who hunts for those carebear farmers I will be hurt by this because I expect there will be significantly less prey after only a couple of weeks of ReconOnline.

I will also be hurt as a solo pvp person who tends to fly ships that can be killed by recons quite easily (sabre ftw). I actually do use a scout with an extended probe launcher, however, dropping combat scanner probes is something that has certain consequences (like giving away that I have a scout with combat scanner probes, to name one) and I'd like to retain it as a tactical choice not to drop them. Having d-scan immune ships takes that choice away.

EDIT: Something like the above might seem silly to you. But it's such nuances in strategy that make a huge difference if you want to get kills.
Albertus Lokbakor
Universidad De Nuevo Eden.
#1324 - 2014-12-20 22:56:42 UTC
-First of all my opinion in this case is somewhat divided the "Directional

scanners immunity on Reacons Ships" more than a good idea I think it is a

lazy one like the interceptors nullifire change in the [Kronos] update a

while ago, i understand that currently the Combat Reacon Ships have more

combat and EW on them that recons capacity, o.k now why not simply rename the "Combat Reacon

Ships" to something like "Electronic attack cruiser" and undersides of give

them the "Directional scanners immunity" why not create a new line of ships

exclusively capable of performing the role of -Reacons Ships for fleet

operations or traveling through systems relatively safer than other

ships to give intel- Now on this moment pilots are using the -Interceptors ships- to travel

safely from system to system denying the purpose of this type of ships which is intercept and catch other ships...
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1325 - 2014-12-20 23:06:41 UTC
I took the liberty of ringing for the ISDs, since your dogged insistence on attacking me because you lack the wherewithal to attack my arguments has constituted a pretty huge derailing of the thread at this point.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#1326 - 2014-12-20 23:08:14 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I took the liberty of ringing for the ISDs, since your dogged insistence on attacking me because you lack the wherewithal to attack my arguments has constituted a pretty huge derailing of the thread at this point.


You have no argument, thats why you are crying for mommy.

i didnt insult or attack you. I just simply explained why your perspective lacks any credence.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1327 - 2014-12-20 23:09:26 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:

You have no argument


That's not true. I approve of the changes being made, and I find the assertion that the sky is falling as a result of them to be laughable, wildly off base, and alarmist at best.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#1328 - 2014-12-20 23:11:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:

You have no argument


That's not true. I approve of the changes being made, and I find the assertion that the sky is falling as a result of them to be laughable, wildly off base, and alarmist at best.


Another strawman. I didnt say anything about sky or falling. Perhaps i should contact ISD for your constant misrepresentation of what people are saying as tantamount to trolling.

You could more accurately say

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

That's not true. I approve of the changes being made, and I find that you dont agree laughable, wildly off base, and alarmist at best.


Doesnt sound as reasonable that way though huh?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1329 - 2014-12-20 23:12:59 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:

Another strawman. I didnt say anything about sky or falling.


Talk about obtuse...

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#1330 - 2014-12-20 23:14:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:

Another strawman. I didnt say anything about sky or falling.


Talk about obtuse...


I think i covered that in an edit. If anyone is alarmist its you thinking that people disagreeing with a core mechanic change is 'laughable'.

Specially when the recons would be a very viable choice for fleets with just the tank buffs.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1331 - 2014-12-20 23:16:07 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:

Another strawman. I didnt say anything about sky or falling.


Talk about obtuse...


I think i covered that in an edit. If anyone is alarmist its you thinking that people disagreeing with a core mechanic change is 'laughable'.


That's not alarmist, by literally every definition. That's dismissive, and rightly so, because the people wetting their pants about this are worthy of being laughed at.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#1332 - 2014-12-20 23:18:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:

Another strawman. I didnt say anything about sky or falling.


Talk about obtuse...


I think i covered that in an edit. If anyone is alarmist its you thinking that people disagreeing with a core mechanic change is 'laughable'.


That's not alarmist, by literally every definition. That's dismissive, and rightly so, because the people wetting their pants about this are worthy of being laughed at.


Thinking a change is a bad idea and pointing out reasons and scenarios why isnt 'wetting their pants'. I dont think calling ISD here with all your figurative trolling and provocation is a good idea.
Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
#1333 - 2014-12-20 23:19:41 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:

You have no argument


That's not true. I approve of the changes being made, and I find the assertion that the sky is falling as a result of them to be laughable, wildly off base, and alarmist at best.



Dscan Change = Good for Ganking
EHP change = Good for fleets
Both combined = Recon Proliferation
Recon Proliferation = bad news for baseball fans


It's ok to like larger fleets. It is also ok to enjoy Ganking people over fighting them. No one is calling you bad people. I'm not saying the sky is falling, and I don't think Crosi is either. The sky didn't fall when they changed the Ishtar, it just changed what everyone trained for and flew.

Will I shed a tear for certain styles of combat and ship selection that I won't use anymore due to Combat Recon Proliferation? Yes.
Will that stop me from violencing Internet Spaceships? Nope.

JUSTK is recruiting
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1334 - 2014-12-20 23:21:26 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:

Thinking a change is a bad idea and pointing out reasons and scenarios why isnt 'wetting their pants'.


There is very little reasoning going on, just a whole lot of "don't touch my niche!" and "wormholes will die!" and "How dare you make me have to use scouts!".

I have not seen one legitimate post against the changes, and that includes yours, since all you've done is cry about my killboard and my use of an alt. You've offered nothing, just pointless quibbling.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
#1335 - 2014-12-20 23:23:04 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Thanatos Marathon wrote:
Thus Combat Recons Online.


You know that everytime our ships get changed, EVE is dying, cannot be played anymore, kills everyone, the world ends, everything is impossible, must join goons, hate goons,....

First and foremost I have observed that most of the horror-ideas you have on TQ come from those very threads you were posting in.

So by stating what could happen, you put ideas into everyones heads to prove you right.

If you wouldn't respond nothing would happen or at least not much.

People really don't like to think for themselves and need help for the tinyest things. So what to do?

Yes, look in the forums, look at player videos and do the same thing they are doing.

You should know that the recon changes are the anouncement of the sleeper cruiser change, coming to your client in early 2015 but you cannot see that far ahead.


This post confuses me. You win.

On T3 cruisers, as long as they have SP loss they won't be that common in FW corps/space.

JUSTK is recruiting
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#1336 - 2014-12-20 23:24:49 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:

Thinking a change is a bad idea and pointing out reasons and scenarios why isnt 'wetting their pants'.


There is very little reasoning going on, just a whole lot of "don't touch my niche!" and "wormholes will die!" and "How dare you make me have to use scouts!".

I have not seen one legitimate post against the changes, and that includes yours, since all you've done is cry about my killboard and my use of an alt. You've offered nothing, just pointless quibbling.


Talk about obtuse. Its clear to me that you are purposefully ignorant to what me and a good proportion of people have said in this thread. Your continued participation as a 'dscan immunity apologist' is obvious. And like any good fundamentalist, you will not hear anything anyone says as exemplified by this posting.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1337 - 2014-12-20 23:25:46 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:

Thinking a change is a bad idea and pointing out reasons and scenarios why isnt 'wetting their pants'.


There is very little reasoning going on, just a whole lot of "don't touch my niche!" and "wormholes will die!" and "How dare you make me have to use scouts!".

I have not seen one legitimate post against the changes, and that includes yours, since all you've done is cry about my killboard and my use of an alt. You've offered nothing, just pointless quibbling.


Talk about obtuse. Its clear to me that you are purposefully ignorant to what me and a good proportion of people have said in this thread. Your continued participation as a 'dscan immunity apologist' is obvious. And like any good fundamentalist, you will not hear anything anyone says as exemplified by this posting.


What's missing from the above is any form of actual argument against the changes, just more personal attacks against me for daring to like these changes.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
#1338 - 2014-12-20 23:27:18 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I have not seen one legitimate post against the changes


So you don't think the impact this will have on medium/large plexes in FW space is concerning and worth considering?

JUSTK is recruiting
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#1339 - 2014-12-20 23:27:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:

Thinking a change is a bad idea and pointing out reasons and scenarios why isnt 'wetting their pants'.


There is very little reasoning going on, just a whole lot of "don't touch my niche!" and "wormholes will die!" and "How dare you make me have to use scouts!".

I have not seen one legitimate post against the changes, and that includes yours, since all you've done is cry about my killboard and my use of an alt. You've offered nothing, just pointless quibbling.


Talk about obtuse. Its clear to me that you are purposefully ignorant to what me and a good proportion of people have said in this thread. Your continued participation as a 'dscan immunity apologist' is obvious. And like any good fundamentalist, you will not hear anything anyone says as exemplified by this posting.


What's missing from the above is any form of actual argument against the changes, just more personal attacks against me for daring to like these changes.


Objections have been repeated hundreds of times in this thread. I have no expectation that you will hear them if they are repeated one more time.

Saying that no valid objections have been raised really is the last nail in your credibilities coffin. I doubt even CCP whatever his name is would deny that there are many legitimate gameplay concerns regarding these changes. Seems only you struggle to understand them.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1340 - 2014-12-20 23:30:29 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:

Objections have been repeated hundreds of times in this thread.


And, as has been mentioned, they are ragey, whiny rants without substance, and most of them are tacitly happy with the shape they are in now as largely worthless.

And you still refuse to actually address the topic.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.