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[Proteus - January] Recon ships

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rhiload Feron-drake
TURN LEFT
#161 - 2014-12-18 16:20:26 UTC
these are not good changes towards small-gang pvp, then again this is a rise post.
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#162 - 2014-12-18 16:20:32 UTC
Adarnof wrote:
Wormholer here. So how exactly did you envision this dscan invisibility playing out? Is CCP even aware of how critical this function is to our day-to-day lives? If you want a ship to be hidden, fine, cloak it. The penalty being it can't engage in combat while cloaked. This new ability is stupidly overpowered and is yet another swing of the nerfbat to small group viability.

If we can't dscan the ship, the pilot should also be removed from local channel in kspace to make things "balanced".



bombers have 0 calibration delay IIRC. that is no different. you see neither on dscan.

and actually bombers are worse ... if you arent sitting on the warp in spot with the combat recon, you actually see him while he tries to approach you e.g.
Tear Jar
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#163 - 2014-12-18 16:20:34 UTC
Grm Makentor wrote:
Tear Jar wrote:
Grm Makentor wrote:
Nys Cron wrote:
Ross Sylibus wrote:
I don't see how this doesn't make WH space completely unlivable for most of EVE.

This just makes wspace more awesome.

if by awesome you mean completely devoid of pve and therefore pvp, then party on mate


WH loot value is based on supply and demand. If everyone leaves then the isk/hr in WH space will skyrocket and bring in new players willing to take risks for amazing rewards, which is what WH space should be about.


Remember the higher the class, the bigger than chunk of the total loot value comes from blue loot which is sold to static npc buy orders
once again, moot point i think


And the higher the class the easier these changes are to deal with. A big group in a C6 wormhole should have no problem dealing with Combat recons, either by scouting their holes or having a few defenders on standby.

Smaller groups have a harder time, but their loot is going to be based on supply and demand.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#164 - 2014-12-18 16:20:40 UTC
Tear Jar wrote:
Stacy Lone wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Combat Recons will now be permanently undetectable by directional scanners

Have you considered the implications this will have for wspace?

I mean it might work for 0.0 where you can see that *something* is there through local, but in wspace, this will be absolutely OP and hilarious. No local, not even DScan anymore, how are you supposed to even get any intel?

The only way to detect such a ship is by having either eyes on all wholes (requires multitude of characters) and thus seeing it enter or by constant combat probing, which can be seen by the enemy.

I fear that this will make this ship far out of line in wspace, where intel is already harder to get than in 0.0.


How is that any different than cov ops ships?

Covops ships are, with a few exceptions, not very good at the whole "stand and fight" shtick. They also have a targeting delay after decloaking, and can actually be seen on d-scan when they're fighting something (or doing other stuff).

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Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#165 - 2014-12-18 16:20:41 UTC
Scheulagh Santorine wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:

Role Bonus:
Cannot be detected by directional scanners


P

Oh, yes, yes, YES,
CCP, YEEES, YEEEES, So yes, YES yes SO YEESSSS....

Aaaaahhh.

Yes. Thank you.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#166 - 2014-12-18 16:21:01 UTC
Tear Jar wrote:

That is a good point. Making the d-scan immunity an active affect with a short targeting delay when deactivated may be a better choice. Especially with all the other buffs recons are getting.


its a point - personally I don't have a problem with it though and kind of interested to see how it works out.
Levina Windstar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#167 - 2014-12-18 16:21:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Levina Windstar
Levina Windstar wrote:
Lorac Gemini wrote:
Levina Windstar wrote:
Lorac Gemini wrote:
Levina Windstar wrote:
I like the undetectable feature but I think this will be wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too OP in WH.

CCP plz... think about WH too! :/



As a wormholer, I think this is amazing. But I guess WH carebears would hate this.


I think it's an amazing idea too, but you have to understand that most corp in WH are small corp and it's another kick in the ass for them (for us). We are not carebear at all but if this **** happens, we will seriously think of leaving WH for good.

I mean cmon... can't you see this is way too OP in WH space? I get it in K-Space but balance must be made in W-Space



You realise cloaks are a thing right? Recons off Dscan is too scary, but cloaky T3's, bombers, force recons, etc...

If anything, this just makes W-space more varied.

See, I'm honestly surprised to see WH tears here, because we should be used to non-information.


Yeah but I had a chance to get them on D-Scan for 8-10 sec meaby. And yeah, cloaky T3 is a thing but a cloaky T3 lack DPS + they have targeting delay so at least there is a drawback here and again, I had the chance to get them on D-Scan.

Think about a 10 man fleet that jump through a WH and land on you (cause THEY can use D-Scan to spot you). It's totally not fair for the defenders.

If CCP want to make WH an alts fest scoutin every WH, fine. I'll just find something else to do in New Eden than being a wormholers.

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... and sometimes when I talk, too" --- Solecist Project
Angrod Losshelin
modro
The Initiative.
#168 - 2014-12-18 16:22:19 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:


PILGRIM
We decided that the Pilgrim really needed Nos/Neut range, rather than strength, to give it the engagement flexibility that other Recons enjoy.



Well this kills the usefulness of the pilgrim in almost every way. Curse = Better neut power at range, legion beats it in EHP while cloaky and raw neuting power, and its tracking disrupt benefits are the same as either the curse or the frigate version (sentinel) which is significantly cheaper.

This boat was significantly useful as a small gang tackle or sneak up an neut your **** off boat. Now its a....I should probably be in any other ship that has neut bonuses boat.

Seriously give the neut amount back and kill the range or give it a different bonus to make it viable in the role you just moved it to. It needs more tracking disrupt or drone dps. You have just placed it in a skirmish/fleet role, please atleast make it viable in that role.

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Arla Sarain
#169 - 2014-12-18 16:22:19 UTC
D-SCAN immunity has no targetting delay.

This will be fun...

Not.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#170 - 2014-12-18 16:23:17 UTC
Thoughts:

1. I love the general durability and cap buff to make recons more combat capable.
2. The mobility buffs seem perfectly placed. They are recon cruisers, which means part of their job is doing reconnaissance. This involves lots of moving.
3. I love the removal of split weapon systems. Love. It.
4. I like the D-Scan Immunity idea. It gives Combat Recons some of the off-grid stealth ability of Force Recons, without giving it to them on-grid too.

Lots of people will complain about #4, and I predict "Nerf AFK Combat Recons!" threads will start popping up soon. But with even Force Recons getting a general buff to their combat abilities, everything people will complain about would have been true already.

Relatively Notorious By Association

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I predicted FAUXs
Gremk
The Terrifying League Of Dog Fort
Deepwater Hooligans
#171 - 2014-12-18 16:23:29 UTC
Airi Cho wrote:
Adarnof wrote:
Wormholer here. So how exactly did you envision this dscan invisibility playing out? Is CCP even aware of how critical this function is to our day-to-day lives? If you want a ship to be hidden, fine, cloak it. The penalty being it can't engage in combat while cloaked. This new ability is stupidly overpowered and is yet another swing of the nerfbat to small group viability.

If we can't dscan the ship, the pilot should also be removed from local channel in kspace to make things "balanced".



bombers have 0 calibration delay IIRC. that is no different. you see neither on dscan.

and actually bombers are worse ... if you arent sitting on the warp in spot with the combat recon, you actually see him while he tries to approach you e.g.


And bombers have a paper thin tank vs something that is going to have a T2 HAC class tank.
X ATM092
The Hatchery
RAZOR Alliance
#172 - 2014-12-18 16:23:46 UTC
Warp into a fw plex. There is a curse. Game was good.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#173 - 2014-12-18 16:25:43 UTC
And thus continues the long held tradition of ******* lasers up the ass and making sure 50% plus amarr ships are ****** drone whores, and the remaining 50% are kept so ****** that people eventually ask them to be changed to drone ships just so theyre usable, because why bother balancing 4 weapon systems when you cut it down to 3, right?
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#174 - 2014-12-18 16:25:59 UTC
Total Dscan immunity should not be a thing unless you are cloaked, use a specific module or a deployable. Make it so that they are only visible within close range Dscan, like 5AU or thereabout.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Sofia Evanglene
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#175 - 2014-12-18 16:28:36 UTC
X ATM092 wrote:
Warp into a fw plex. There is a curse. Game was good.

warp into plex
theres 10 sebo arty huginns
ggwp great game
Dmitry Kuvora
Sovetsky Soyuz
#176 - 2014-12-18 16:28:38 UTC
interesting changes, but recons will be overpowered

i hope someday you'll add scanning bonuses for force recons
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#177 - 2014-12-18 16:29:21 UTC
While I feel generally quite enthusiastic about these changes I really wish more had been done about the rook. Change the ecm cap use bonus for a cycle rate bonus or SOMETHING more useful like missile damage (even if its kinetic *vomit*) and when you rebalance ECM in to something more reliable and useful then come back to the rook.

Obviously the answer always was making ecm function like "mirror image" but it seems noone has the balls to make it that way.
Sobic
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#178 - 2014-12-18 16:30:11 UTC
X ATM092 wrote:
Warp into a fw plex. There is a curse. Game was good.


lol so much this ^
Neckbeard Nolyfe
Zero Fun Allowed
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#179 - 2014-12-18 16:30:54 UTC
Could you make it so that players piloting recons dont show up in local?

~lvl 60 paladin~
Mixu Paatelainen
Eve Refinery
#180 - 2014-12-18 16:31:41 UTC
Glass half full: hahahaha this will be amazing piratical fun!

Glass half empty: I'll be offlining that wormhole tower.