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Capsule destruction proposal - skill, implants and hardwires
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Jenshae Chiroptera
#61 - 2014-12-13 04:35:10 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
And who will freely grind that sec status for you?


Your alt account and the gang you roll with ... you do have a group or frandz, right? Would think this would be obvious?

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#62 - 2014-12-13 18:52:24 UTC
Jim Elliot wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Jim Elliot wrote:
Agreed. Post Rhea there are now zero consequences for losing an empty pod. No more clone fees. Not a bad idea to blank out a skill for few hours. Maybe you could even have the choice in the medical bay to shell out a few mil and fix that.


Anyone who believes empty clones are 'free' has exactly zero understanding of skill point accumulation.



I stopped using implants after the learning skill nerfbat. I have 80m+ SP. It's never held me back.


Thanks for confirming my point.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#63 - 2014-12-14 02:21:57 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Thanks for confirming my point.


Unfortunately, it would betray a friend to citation some really dramatic examples. Again. If you aim at a particular ship then you can get there rather fast. Once you are there your tool is made and the fuel is the cost of a few ships. That is your limit, you can keep using that tool over and over again without penalty to slow you down.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2014-12-14 02:35:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Again. If you aim at a particular ship then you can get there rather fast.

That's right.

When I was new and fresh, I fell in love with the Widow and vowed one day I would fly it. Now that ship probably takes longer to get into than any other subcapital. Now, past my four year mark, I still can't fly one because I have spread my skills out, but if I had gone straight for it, I'd have been able to pilot one a long, long time ago. I believe the training time for it is around 3 months, and one of the nice things about Black Ops is that the secondary skills are less important for it because you're not really supposed to take it into combat anyway.

Of course one should never underestimate the usefulness of some of the ships with lower skill requirements. One of my favorite ships to fly (based on experience) is the Cormorant. With t2 rails I can shoot out to 75km on a reasonably well-rounded fit. The skills for what I can push out of it would probably take a few months to train, but you can be competent in one of those within your first week. And until then you can be flying a Merlin.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Jenshae Chiroptera
#65 - 2014-12-14 02:42:52 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
One of my favorite ships to fly (based on experience) is the Cormorant. .


I have helped design a Corax, (3 days each for training, fresh pilots,) x10 can melt my hurricane in 9 seconds. In that time I can half damage one of them.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#66 - 2014-12-15 16:23:57 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
One of my favorite ships to fly (based on experience) is the Cormorant. .


I have helped design a Corax, (3 days each for training, fresh pilots,) x10 can melt my hurricane in 9 seconds. In that time I can half damage one of them.


Many cheap ships > few costly ships.

Working as intended.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#67 - 2014-12-15 18:27:19 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
I seem to be laying out a guide on how to do this, which is not my intention but I will still say that using a spare pilot and aiming for a very particular fit, using remaps and implants while you prepare it, you can make an anonymous tool very quickly

Using a blank Gallente pilot and nothing else, you can make a 1.6M ISK thrasher that has a 415 volley and 135 DPS in 14 hours 27 minutes

All the skills to III with no implants and no remaps takes 2 days and 7 hours. 477 volley 159 dmg

Using one remap you are down to 1 day 20 hours

Implants 1 day 11 hours.

Consider what you can do if you just take two weeks. Security? Sit it on grind at range with a ratter running sites.



you mean new players CAN make a difference?
This is a problem because??

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#68 - 2014-12-15 18:36:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
One of my favorite ships to fly (based on experience) is the Cormorant. .


I have helped design a Corax, (3 days each for training, fresh pilots,) x10 can melt my hurricane in 9 seconds. In that time I can half damage one of them.


wow really

10 you say...10 dps focused ships...against one...one ship that can barely hit a Corax at the best of times.

maybe you should have taken three Caracals instead.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
baltec1
Bat Country
The Initiative.
#69 - 2014-12-15 18:37:12 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
One of my favorite ships to fly (based on experience) is the Cormorant. .


I have helped design a Corax, (3 days each for training, fresh pilots,) x10 can melt my hurricane in 9 seconds. In that time I can half damage one of them.


wow really

10 you say...10 dps focused ships...against one...one ship that can barely hit a Corax at the best of times.

maybe you should have taken three Caracals...instead.


Or not shitfit your cane.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#70 - 2014-12-15 18:52:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
baltec1 wrote:
Or not shitfit your cane.


600 DPS that actually applies isn't a bad fit.

The point you are all de-railing away from is that empty cheap alternative characters can be used to attack others anonymously with absolutely zero repercussions.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#71 - 2014-12-15 18:56:08 UTC
if you cant kill a corax in 18 seconds, it probably isnt applying.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Jenshae Chiroptera
#72 - 2014-12-15 18:57:16 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
if you cant kill a corax in 18 seconds, it probably isnt applying.


You don't know the Corax fit.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#73 - 2014-12-15 19:05:31 UTC
right...but your hurricane isnt applying dps is it?

its not like the corax has 20k ehp

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Jenshae Chiroptera
#74 - 2014-12-15 19:36:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Daichi Yamato wrote:
right...but your hurricane isnt applying dps is it?

its not like the corax has 20k ehp



Quote:
This is a one trick pony. Fast lock, high damage, hit and get out.
Turn everything on, sensor booster, hardeners, AB.
If you haven't killed your target in a few cycles, warp out and minimise loss
7088K eHP
All together this should be 18420 volley with over heated 2544 damage per second.

To give a scale of the damage, my hurricane has a 40K tank with 1404 volley 659 DPS but 147 of that is drones. So you would eat through it in about 9 seconds. I would not get my drones out or apply them well in that time. So, that is 5000 damage or bit over half a Corax in that amount of time. My lock time would also be a lot slower, reducing that further.

Since they use missiles, this is really effective for newbies as they won't need to worry about tracking, optimals and fall offs.


Right....

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#75 - 2014-12-15 19:51:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
so why did you say you had a hurricane that had 600dps that 'actually applies'?

you brought up the corax vs hurricane comparison as if it was supposed to mean something. youve just shown it doesnt mean anything...

edit- well accept that many cheap specialised ships can beat lone generalist ships.

how is that a bad thing?

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#76 - 2014-12-15 20:02:39 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Or not shitfit your cane.


600 DPS that actually applies isn't a bad fit.

The point you are all de-railing away from is that empty cheap alternative characters can be used to attack others anonymously with absolutely zero repercussions.


Ganging up on people in bigger/more expensive is efficient. News at 11.

WE NEED A PENALTY ON POD LOSSES BECAUSE DESSY CAN BE USED TO KILL LARGER SHIPS FAST.

Hey, you do know pop losses being hard or not changes nothing tot hat right? I can train that dessy alt even if my pod has a higher cost to repalce. I can destroy your cane with corax as often as I want no matter how much ISK/SP/time/tears it cost me to lose a pod on my main. Throwaway ganking alts existed before the pod change. Their limitation are exactly the same as before, you can't biomass them to avoid the sec status losses.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#77 - 2014-12-15 20:16:02 UTC
there is not zero repercussions. you can still lose your ship and any implants you are fitting. If ppl dont want to take big risks when they PvP they dont have to. The price they pay is the loss in power on their fit or the slower train times. This is not a bad thing, quite the opposite, its one of the best parts of the game where new players can join the game and have fun from day one.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Jenshae Chiroptera
#78 - 2014-12-15 20:51:40 UTC
If skills are greyed out then those suicide gankers will be slowed down if they are pod killed.

It gives you a recourse that has a meaning.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#79 - 2014-12-15 20:53:38 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
If skills are greyed out then those suicide gankers will be slowed down if they are pod killed.

It gives you a recourse that has a meaning.


Your cane is dead before you can kill 1 corax. How do you expect to kill that pod when flying in a pod or better yet when sitting in a station looking at your free ibis?
Alundil
Rolled Out
#80 - 2014-12-15 22:07:43 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
Losing a ship is enough of a consequence for losing a ship.

Alliance SRPs you and you click a few times to pick up a contract or get the bits from the market. Many of us already have many of the same ship ready to re-ship.

Most alliances/corporations do NOT offer SRP. You basing this terribru idea on the assumption that people get ships replaced "for free" is almost as bad as the idea itself.

Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
Losing implants is enough of a consequence for losing a pod.

Jump clone to a blank PVP clone.

So you have lost a ship? Not like you paid for it.
You lost a clone? Doesn't matter, was empty anyway.

Consequences?

Oh look.

ZERO!

Again - ship and module costs are not replaced for the vast majority of players in EVE. Furthermore, in scenarios where an active hostile engagement is taking place, losing a ship+pod is almost a guarantee in the land of bubbles (00 and wspace) causing an immediate trip back to the "home" station which is hopefully close enough to the fight to reship and get back to it. Your proposal would tack on an extra penalty to getting helplessly podded in a bubble meaning that not only are pilots out of the ship+mods, pod+implants but also potentially the skill required to rejoin the fight.

Honestly, there's a place for things like this

I'm right behind you