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Capsule destruction proposal - skill, implants and hardwires
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#21 - 2014-11-27 18:00:40 UTC
Those are measures players have taken to mitigate and distribute risk. In the sandbox, you want mechanisms that encourage players to keep playing. You don't seem to get that. SRP is not something the developers planned on, it's something players developed to be more effective in a world with real consequences. CCP likes adding mechanics that give meaningful choices. None of your ideas offer that. Additionally:

1. Even if my ship is SRPed, my alliance still lost resources. They came from somewhere real and require effort on everyone's part to defend. Consequences.
2. Not everyone has access to SRP. The goal is not to force everyone into SRP blocks.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Mag's
Azn Empire
#22 - 2014-11-27 18:31:37 UTC
Another bad idea from Jenshae Chiroptera. Damn girl, you is on a roll. Cool

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#23 - 2014-11-27 18:49:25 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
Losing a ship is enough of a consequence for losing a ship.

Alliance SRPs you and you click a few times to pick up a contract or get the bits from the market. Many of us already have many of the same ship ready to re-ship.
FT Diomedes wrote:
Losing implants is enough of a consequence for losing a pod.

Jump clone to a blank PVP clone.

So you have lost a ship? Not like you paid for it.
You lost a clone? Doesn't matter, was empty anyway.

Consequences?

Oh look.

ZERO!


I heard some people were not under full SRP all the time. I guess those have risk but you don't care so they don't count right...
Rain6637
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#24 - 2014-11-27 20:56:11 UTC
Zan Shiro wrote:
In about 13 days, well after rhea hits, I am done tactical logistics 5. It is my last train before the combat char is "done". I train to train beyond that point as my must haves are done from cap on down. I have no burning desire for mommies or titans tbh.

that is a mistake. you want supers with full RR skills.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Jenshae Chiroptera
#25 - 2014-11-28 10:33:48 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:

I heard some people were not under full SRP all the time. I guess those have risk but you don't care so they don't count right...


Most pod kills are done where bubbles can be deployed, null sec and WHs. If you aren't in an SRP alliance there then get out.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#26 - 2014-11-28 16:50:02 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:

I heard some people were not under full SRP all the time. I guess those have risk but you don't care so they don't count right...


Most pod kills are done where bubbles can be deployed, null sec and WHs. If you aren't in an SRP alliance there then get out.


This is a great way to break up the existing power blocs and get new blood into 0.0!

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Jenshae Chiroptera
#27 - 2014-12-10 22:14:02 UTC
People are suiciding their pods to travel instantly.

I think my harvest implants idea and "greying" out a skill for a day would be good.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#28 - 2014-12-11 00:07:17 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
People are suiciding their pods to travel instantly.

I think my harvest implants idea and "greying" out a skill for a day would be good.




And they weren't in the past?

As a low sp player a few mil for a clone was nothing in costs old scheme. Its only isk, you can make more. Same for some bitters. This I did even in the old days of apocrypha. Before all the isk makers like pi and such came into play. Even Low level belt ratting covered these costs quite readily.

Also depending on how they set this up they have added costs. When I pod suicide expressed it where I woke up at had stocked hangars. I never bought 1 ship, it was 2 or more of them to be combat ready at all times. I never had the pleasure of a frp/srp home. My (at least) 2 of each ship at all times was out of pocket all the time.

It was not cost of clone upgrade that had me stop pvp'ing in meatgrinders I clone suicide expressed it out. A few mil for clone suicides was a drop in the bucket to several ship losses over the night. Well that and if any attempt made on gate camps to catch escapees pod was screwed anyway a good possibility.

Dead either way. And hell pod suicide could be longer. That's a 2 minute timer. I have cleared pod, jumped gate and landed into a disco party and died in less time.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#29 - 2014-12-11 00:47:50 UTC
People were complaining about 20M ISK for a pod death and not wanting to keep paying that.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Phaade
Know-Nothings
Snuffed Out
#30 - 2014-12-11 01:18:42 UTC
umm....

my body was obliterated and I woke up in a completely new body.

Why on earth would my new body, literally light years away, have a concussion?

.......Shocked
Jenshae Chiroptera
#31 - 2014-12-11 01:31:47 UTC
Phaade wrote:
umm....

my body was obliterated and I woke up in a completely new body.

Why on earth would my new body, literally light years away, have a concussion?

.......Shocked


Psyche. Traumatic event and disorientation of being somewhere suddenly.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#32 - 2014-12-11 01:32:03 UTC
*younger player is training the skill "Spaceship Command"*
*younger player is podded*
*younger player cannot use any ships for 24 hours except shuttles and the Gnosis because EVERY SHIP requires the skill "Spaceship Command"*

*player is training the skill "(Racial) Frigate/Destroyer/Cruiser/Battlecruiser/Battleship"*
*player is podded*
*player cannot use any (Racial) Frigate/Destroyer/Cruiser/Battlecruiser/Battleship for 24 hours*


No to this idea. The penalty is WAY too steep and discourages active gameplay when certain skills are being trained.

How did you Veterans start?
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2014-12-11 01:33:12 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
This also would hurt new players far worse than older players with more SP.

Not if it has a higher chance of taking effect the more SP you have. Or the higher amount you have uncovered, assuming with this change it is decided to re-instate med clones. Malcanis' Law will still persist but only in that older players will take better advantage of it on fresh accounts than newer players will. A one-character player with 70 million SP and pitiful income such as myself would be hit the hardest out of anyone, yet I would thrive without complaint. It would make the game more fun, and probably give me a much-deserved weakness to offset my strengths in other areas.

I'd be a lot more likely to send my clones into danger if I could get away with not paying med clone costs. Not having a penalty at all is too easy, but having permanent damage amounting to hundreds or thousands of hours of training is too much. A temporary punishment is a lot more to my liking.

Or maybe I just like a spanking that doesn't break my skin.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Jenshae Chiroptera
#34 - 2014-12-11 01:34:57 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
*younger player is training the skill "Spaceship Command"*
*younger player is podded*
*younger player cannot use any ships for 24 hours except shuttles and the Gnosis because EVERY SHIP requires the skill
No to this idea. The penalty is WAY too steep and discourages active gameplay when certain skills are being trained.


I have been expecting a post like this but I thought I would wait and see if the person that posted it would also suggest the obvsious solution of an exception list.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#35 - 2014-12-11 03:48:16 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
People were complaining about 20M ISK for a pod death and not wanting to keep paying that.



Many of these people will find another excuse to not pvp tbh. My tau clone costs are 1/7 of a fleet bs's cost these days. Just lost 210 mil, 20-30 is not a deal break all in all imo.


All this change did was put t1 frigates back on the table for use for tau-ish level players like myself for suicide roams my take on it. Prior to this...well I looked for safety in numbers. Did I "blob it"...gonna be honest and say yes. 30 mil clone I will wrap an expensive ship around it. And roll with peeps thinking likewise.

Post change I may relive the days of trash t1 suicide roams. As I like many like to wrap an expensive ship around our expensive clone. We also like to blob it for added security. Now one could argue this will have bitters roll stomping in t1 frig roams. this will have to be seen.

I have not flown frigates in combat for years. Wasn't even all that good in them back in the early days to be honest sadly. I will be a bitter with blob experience who is actually not truly great above waiting for primary calls and pressing F1. I at least am honest enough to say this upfront. I know from the blob lots of f1 spammers are just as useless in a t1 frig, they just won't admit it lol.


So look on the Brightside...you or someone with low sp (( have not e-stalked you to see how old char is) can have the pleasure of teaching old dogs new tricks the hard way. Lemons into lemonade I say.

This why I like the change...opens up options closed off for a bit to some. And with luck for you when seen and ccp delivers the promised replacement its to all our likings. For the moment though...if it gets more legit pvp flowing with some abuses (people will always find something to get over on the system) I say let it ride out a bit.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#36 - 2014-12-11 04:02:27 UTC
Zan Shiro wrote:
I will be a bitter with blob experience who is actually not truly great above waiting for primary calls and pressing F1. I at least am honest enough to say this upfront. I know from the blob lots of f1 spammers are just as useless in a t1 frig, they just won't admit it lol.


The most exhilrating PVP we used to do was 10-15 vs 10-15. That was the sweet spot. No logi and usually one trick in the bag. I would jump first and decloak, be the primary and active tank them with an autocannon cyclone.
The battle would hinge on which of the primary targets would collapse first. Tanked a Moros in low sec once while my gang got away then I docked up and jumped clones.

Feeling the fight right at your finger tips, getting that range, overloading at the right moment, troll tanking so they keep firing at you and such. Then we got a neut Rohk and they started dying more often.

... but here is the thing that gives you that little kick of adrenalin - the risk of dying. The penalty of failure, losing that ship and in this case losing the use of something temporarily.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#37 - 2014-12-11 04:08:45 UTC
The loss of implants is ALL you need for a sense of risk, reward and loss. And you can apply the 'dont fly what you cant afford to lose' philosophy that is such a corner stone of EVE culture to implants.

This idea has none of that. It has no meaningful choice, no mitigation by chosing lesser rewards and not only still **** 's with ppls skill queues but affects what ships, weapons and equipment they can fly with to boot?

Frankly, SP loss is better.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Mag's
Azn Empire
#38 - 2014-12-11 07:44:41 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
*younger player is training the skill "Spaceship Command"*
*younger player is podded*
*younger player cannot use any ships for 24 hours except shuttles and the Gnosis because EVERY SHIP requires the skill
No to this idea. The penalty is WAY too steep and discourages active gameplay when certain skills are being trained.


I have been expecting a post like this but I thought I would wait and see if the person that posted it would also suggest the obvsious solution of an exception list.
As soon as an idea starts to need lots of exceptions to work, it only highlights just how bad it actually is.

Bad idea is still bad.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#39 - 2014-12-11 07:59:34 UTC
CCP removed the clone mechanic to encourage PvP.

Now we have people inundating the forums with ideas on how to "replace" that mechanic, up to and including the part about discouraging PvP.

Get out of here and stop posting, all of you. For ****'s sake.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#40 - 2014-12-11 12:45:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Blank clones and masses of cheap destroyers. You can grief and grief players until they quit. time it right and you can have one wave hitting them while the other wave re-ships and move into position.

  • This is going to become like any FPS - die, run in, kill a few, die, repeat. Very boring, very quickly with unsatisfactory and meaningless deaths and kills.

Throw in some skill that reduces the time penalty and maybe a slot 10 hardware that has soothing music to prepare you for the trauma.

The essential reason why there is a clamour for a replacement remains.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.