Science & Industry

So because something's only being used by a small community of the game, it's getting removed? When will titans be removed, then? Just because it's not used by everybody doesn't mean it should go. It's been a great boost to nullsec industry and helped us compete with highsec along with the other Crius changes. Plus, bidding is fun! Don't remove it, just leave it alone!

Also, under 10% seems fairly high to me. I don't hear you saying under 10% of miners, or under 10% of pvpers, use links so we're removing them from the game.

PS Please remove links

Teams are a childbirth of a horrible mind. Don't just remove them, let them burn in a fire.

Kudos CCP ;)

Good to see it gone. It overcomplicated manufacturing/research that I can honestly say that it wasn't worth the time and effort to bid and/or move towards the successful ones. Waste of time when you take into account the transportation overheads. Neither would you want to stay at the same spot since everything shifts. It's a fail mechanic when put into practice.

It is also a rather lopsided mechanic that favor economies of scale, rather than small and medium enterprises. If you want REAL players to populate this game, you have to give them a reason to exist and be competitive. Think of a mechanic that drives this. Geo location matters very little as the universe will auto-adjust like the market. "Forcing" a geo-location lock (i.e. teams) was possibly the wrong approach in the first place. What may (or may not) work is encouraging agglomeration as organically as possible via market forces i.e. prices get cheaper the more you manufacture the same stuffs in a particular system **. This is attributed by the streamlining of the supply chain by support industries - just like in RL. At a certain point in the scale, it can even be expanded into area or region e.g. the Mobit constellation is known as a famous region for jump freighter construction where a lot of jump freighters gets built - just like in RL e.g. vineyards region in France.

On a different track, while you're still at it, please consider adding a materials tab* to the industry UI. This is a major sore point to possibly most industrialist as you have to hunt down your stocks in the assets list before making any decisions - even before Crius. That's 2 different windows you have to use to access the information 1. Industry 2. Assets/Corp Assets. Since most of the industry work flows have been consolidated under Industry in Crius, it begs the question why this hasn't already been implemented?

* Its aim is to provide an overview of ALL valid manufacturing materials (even a packed ship) and should also be fully customizable to allow players to include/exclude these items if needed.

** do everything in Jita? well up to a point when the scale tips and negative costs sets it, denoting resource scarcity and overcrowding of the support industries. The volume of this container i.e. manufacturing capacity of a whole system can be scaled accordingly towards sec status, with smallest = 1.0, biggest=0.0. More than likely, several centers will spring up organically depending on demand and whatsover other intangible factors that goes into it. Simpler and more intuitive.

Just convert it to mercenary teams.

I find this argument both absurd (for the above reasons quoted), and, disappointing, because it came from a CSM.

Honestly, get off teams, they are lovely.

So whats happenign to the "Push/Pull effect" of industry that Crius was all about. Now we just have a push effect with Index and no more pull effects to draw people to a place.

Teams are pretty amazing, I dont do that much high sec industry as its mostly in nullsec, But when ever I build in highsec I always looked where what teams are available and what the index is, then compare that to the range from jita and find a nice spot to build. And not beeing afraid to move around when better teams show up in a system with lower Index.

People say its hard to move industry around? Is it really? You use up the minerals and move your bpo's. BPO's are easy to move. The minerals are a pain yes, but you just need to import new ones and use up the old ones at your old location.

Now in the new system all i get to look at is index and that isnt nearly as fun or interesting

The problem is that in high-sec, teams completely nullify the cost index "push" if you take advantage of station modifiers. For example, you can build as much as you want in Nonni and the cost index will never rise above 4%. Ever. And that's just one example. In contrast, if you build in a stationless system, your cost index quickly rises to 6, 7, eventually 8%.

A 4% cost index turns into a 1% cost index if you have a -2.5% team, which is the worst-case scenario. Teams make it so that large-scale, informed, industrialists don't have to worry about cost index. I'm turning over about 40bil of raw->finished materials per day out of a single POS, at a good profit, and I'm not even running at my peak. That's broken.

A "pull effect" is not the same thing as the complete elimination of any "push effect".

Sad to see them go, and I definitely want them back once they are iterated upon.

Teams are an excellent source of intel on what is being built and where - information that starts fights in all areas of space. They are also a way of seeding false intel - if you want a rival's strategically important system to be attacked but can't do it yourself, just put a Titan team in there, then seed intel that they are building Titans there.

I will miss using the teams interface to search for good highsec POSes to ransom.



Edit: One issue with them is that the % production time modifiers are underpowered, and the % material cost modifiers are comparitively very powerful. And production is too fast in New Eden in general now so it's not advisable to just dial up the numbers on the % production time teams.

>>> LoL <<<

so much time spent on revamp and add new features in the industry process.
Finally few month later...you plan to only keep the unlimited slots.

good work! keep wasting time!