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[Rhea] Pulse Lasers and Scorch

First post First post
Author
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#41 - 2014-11-27 20:43:10 UTC
Arla Sarain wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
5% and 2%? that's really underwhelming. do bigger things please. you should be tring to make scorch/null/barrage into being like javelin or something, and making the guns usable with proper ammos. t2 ammo should be a niche thing imo.


javelin is pretty useless ammo as are all the T2 short range ammo on long range guns..


no, javelin is a nice example of T2 ammo done well. it's not a game-breaking replacement like scorch or null, it's an occasionally useful thing you carry around for when you really need more tracking.

At half the optimal range you get with Javelin in comparison to Navy Anti Matter you will need a lot more tracking than the ammo offers.
Argue that the Javelin concept is ok all you want
The stats suck regardless.
rhiload Feron-drake wrote:
nerfing weapon system used heavily in small gang pvp. gj fozzie your doing great

The change is borderline irrelevant. Calling it a nerf is laughable.


SOUNDS like the 1.25 is not enough maybe 1.5 and a roden ship with a 50% bonus to rails would turn rails into a psudo auto canon

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#42 - 2014-11-27 20:47:07 UTC
Capqu wrote:
im having trouble finding the dev blog on ishtars

i mean dont get me wrong scorch is strong but the relative imbalance of ishtars is a lot more obvious and widespread so surely the developers would not ignore that and make minor adjustments in other places for no reason???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????



Magic 8 ball says ishtar should drop heavy drone bonus and get medium hybrid turret damage bonus back and remove optimal range bonus but keep tracking bonus for sentries.

Remove mid slot move it as a turret high slot.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Arla Sarain
#43 - 2014-11-27 21:09:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Arla Sarain
Viribus wrote:
interceptor-class warvessel

Working as intended.
Interceptors are the real PvP ship. Expecting anything else to be as good as them is like having a Venture that compresses ore.

Get real. Get on with the times.
Git gud. Train interceptors.
Adapt or die.
Better your killboard.
If your interceptor can't bash structures your fit is bad.
If you don't have a Stiletto PvP vid you are a nonfactor.
EVE is real.

MeBiatch wrote:


SOUNDS like the 1.25 is not enough maybe 1.5 and a roden ship with a 50% bonus to rails would turn rails into a psudo auto canon

So an Ares gets 0.32 tracking with Javs on 75mm Rails. At 3.5km optimal with less than 80 DPS.
And 0.17 with 125mm at 6.8km optimal.
Who cares?
Javelin is bad.
Saying it's good is like saying Capacitor Batteries are good. Or using Automatic Targeting Systems is justified cos it gives you more targets.
Javelin.
Bad.
Should be one word - Javelinbad : "Have you see the new video? - Ah yes, its javelinbad"
X ATM092
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#44 - 2014-11-27 21:23:20 UTC
Liam Inkuras wrote:
CCP Fozzie when will you balance medium autocannons? They are quite weak when compared to Blasters and Pulse lasers at their respective ranges, and selective damage type is not as strong as you make it out to be.

Actually I heard that if you fit a mega beam laser on a hurricane then it gets less damage at 0km than autocannons.
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#45 - 2014-11-27 21:24:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Sizeof Void
Dear Fozzie - I have to agree with other posters, in that this is an underwhelming change. In fact, this is the sort of non-consequential change we used to get to ships and weapons (one sihp at a time, one weapon system at a time, one ammo type at a time), back before you joined CCP and did such a magnificient job with ship tiericide, rebalancing an entire class for each release (which was the right way to do it).

Quite frankly, we need to see the same thing (tiericide) on the weapon systems and ammo.

In this particular case, there is still no reason to use most T1 crystals, and no reason to ever use T1 lasers or heat sinks. And, why should only projectile ammo and missiles do different types of damage - every class of weapon should have that capability, to some extent.

P.S. Kudos to you for using F&ID to discuss changes before pushing them live. I wish you could get the rest of the devs to do the same thing.
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
#46 - 2014-11-27 21:38:09 UTC  |  Edited by: McChicken Combo HalfMayo
You can probably go further on the Scorch nerf. I'd bring it's optimal range down 15% and damage 10%, which gives it about the same range as Infrared while maintaining a 15% DPS edge. Alternatively nuke it's DPS and make it push out farther than Radio.

Falloff buff is long overdue happy about that.

There are all our dominion

Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin

Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#47 - 2014-11-27 21:38:50 UTC
I didn't realize that Scorch + pulse was such a game breaking thing that needed critical balancing at a time when so many other things need love.


I must have missed the 40000 whine threads about it... which is odd.. seeing as that I tend to keep track of things like whine threads... for.. reasons.


Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?

Bullet Therapist
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#48 - 2014-11-27 21:54:04 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
I didn't realize that Scorch + pulse was such a game breaking thing that needed critical balancing at a time when so many other things need love.

I must have missed the 40000 whine threads about it... which is odd.. seeing as that I tend to keep track of things like whine threads... for.. reasons.



This is kind of what I was thinking here. Maybe scorch could have used a nerf? IDK.

There's just so many other things that could be looked at right now, like bombers (still), tech 3s, missiles, combat battecruisers, battleships, ishtars... sentry drones. vOv

I like the confessor though. Big smile
Chelso
Van Diemen's Demise
Northern Coalition.
#49 - 2014-11-27 22:31:18 UTC
I saw this graph the other day of damage done by weapon type and by ship type, funnily enough pulse lasers weren't the system that looked worrying on that graph fozzie.

Fix med rails and t3's and fix sentries and Ishtars. PleaseOkThanksCyaBye.
Viribus
1st Reddit Kiev Defense Brigade
#50 - 2014-11-27 22:43:23 UTC
can i just point out that scorch is literally the only thing keeping pulses relevant in this game

they're by far the worst turret for brawling, with fixed damagetype, bad cap usage, bad tracking, bad fitting, and mediocre damage. If not for Scorch they'd go the way of HMLs
Qvar Dar'Zanar
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2014-11-27 22:48:41 UTC
Wow, really? Nobody uses any ammo type other than navy multifreq and Scorch because they suck... So we are going to nerf Scorch. As if being limited to EM wasn't enough of a problem, our damage also has to be nerfed to be equal to those who can change their damage types. Ah, the beauties of coexistance between PVE and PVP.

Tbh I'm disappointed about the direction this is taking.
Aram Kachaturian
Aram Pleasure Hub Holding
#52 - 2014-11-27 22:51:50 UTC
Viribus wrote:

current (proposed)
Explosion radius: 140 (250)
Explosion velocity: 81 (120)

this would bring heavies more in-line with CCP's vision for missiles, imo


I would propose 420 for explosion radius.

Thanks CCP Fozzie for those really important changes. Ishtar absolute supremacy issue can wait, chill guys.

Servant of the Secret League, Wielder of the Monocle Clubhouse Flame.

Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#53 - 2014-11-27 23:01:23 UTC
so other things that need buffing about lasers are

- better tracking
- lower cap usage
- lower fitting
- buff the other crystals -50% range on ammo is bad especially -75% range
- maybe reduce scorch to 35% op range and add the 5% into base guns

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#54 - 2014-11-27 23:19:04 UTC
When are you going to take another look at missiles? Rapid launchers are in dire need of a boost. At the very least, battleships like the raven need a range bonus to rapid heavies like the caracal gets to rapid lights.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#55 - 2014-11-27 23:41:11 UTC
rapid launchers are in dire need of deletion more like
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#56 - 2014-11-27 23:55:41 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
rapid launchers are in dire need of deletion more like


i agree .. adding something like new launchers or missiles too fill the gaps of the appropriate sizes make more sense

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#57 - 2014-11-28 00:25:15 UTC  |  Edited by: elitatwo
Harvey James wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
rapid launchers are in dire need of deletion more like


i agree .. adding something like new launchers or missiles too fill the gaps of the appropriate sizes make more sense


Or, and let's think totally out of the box here, let's make medium and large missile useful for a change?

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This is the law of ship progression!

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Zed Zucker
Elewaitor
TOTALLY DONT FREIGHT STUFF
#58 - 2014-11-28 00:26:44 UTC
What a waste of time. Guess I will just skill to Ishtars like everyone else. Who was griping about Scorch anyway? Why the nerf? Maybe improve some of the less useful ammo types. CCP has been doing well the last few changes but IMO this is a miss.
Gorski Car
#59 - 2014-11-28 00:50:12 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
rapid launchers are in dire need of deletion more like


They are really only borderline overpowered on 1 ship. On all the others they are kinda ****.

Collect this post

Zomgnomnom
Contra Ratio
GameTheory
#60 - 2014-11-28 01:08:34 UTC
Swing and a miss....

How about making the other Crystals worth using, adjusting tracking, or cap usage or yah know, any of the actual problems with pulse lasers?