Player Features and Ideas Discussion

This is a pretty minor problem(if it is one). New players are not meant to live in these systems for any real length of time and no real substantive commerce can be conducted there.

Basically I don't think anything should be done about this.

Well when you put it like that. Hurting bots is always good in my books.

Did you even read what I wrote. I in no way implied that older players should be banned for entering.

I said that systems should be off limit to others and economic incentives to stay there diminished.

It hurts content creation and risk versus reward part of Eve on which this entire goddamn game is based.
If there is no risk reward is supposed to be really tiny, except in rookie systems reward is the same as in any other 0.9 or 1.0 system.

There are very apparent downsides to some players playing Eve as theme park.

Like Eve dying for the lack of interaction between players, good or bad (depends on perspective there, it being bad doesn't).

Correct me if I am wrong, but the "protections" of a rookie system don't extend to established players, only "new players" however that is defined. So, if you chased a year-old war target into a rookie system and violenced them, or bumped or suicide ganked a similarly "old" character mining away in a exhumer, I would interpret that as being ok.

But I agree that it is a small problem that the asteroid belts get mined out - I remember being slightly confused by the lack of 'roids when I first did the tutorial. I am not sure if this is due to real newbie activity, or "vets" thinking that they are somehow safer and taking all the ore first, but perhaps the better solution is a revamped tutorial where mining anomalies/mission pockets, gated if need be, spawn for new players during the mining missions in the tutorial. It that was done, the normal asteroid belts could be removed and then there would be no reason to veteran miners to spend any time in the system, beyond perhaps a random anomaly spawn.

That would limit the ability of new players to mine safely after the tutorial (although there could be mining missions available) but honestly we should be encouraging players to get out into the greater sandbox sooner rather later.

I don't really see any other solution to keeping established players out of the system - it really is in effect just another highsec system for them and any arbitrary lockout would kind of break the design of the sandbox. New players have to start competing with the rest of us at some point if the want to be earning the same rewards.

I think the best would be to clarify what is a "new player" so that the rest of us can use in-game means to "discourage" older players from mining in these systems and remind them that they cannot remain safe in starter systems forever. Perhaps a petition is in order to get a concrete ruling on this.

A stage in the game has been reached, where there is little uncertainty about which areas of the game are irretrievably broken.
The question is where from here? No change is unrealistic, but too much harm to these communities is also undesirable, but the original post, although well intentioned, has not grasped that rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic is no longer a viable option.

CCP are going to have to deal with the reality of groups of extremely self entitled players raging as to how this is EVE and always was and always should be, to support their position, and CCP can expect them to be loud, vociferous, and just plain nasty.

CCP seagull, has made the companies direction clear, there are no sacred cows, whilst some may remain, with minor changes, some will in the most likelihood suffer the fate of complete amputation, and by this point, many will not be saddened by that.

The difficulty is separating cool rational argument, from rage, anger and sheer frustration. Many of the beneficiaries of these mechanics rely on separating the rest of the player base from reason through their very tactics. Preventing these from having been looked at in the past.

If CCP do decide to remove these mechanics, and it is looking more and more likely, there should not just be a big stick wielded crushing all before it, there should be alternatives presented and offered, to sweeten the transition for those who are utilising these mechanics in a responsible manner. Unfortunately those communities seem to have been unable to police themselves and with others showing little or no self restraint have ruined it for them too. That is unfortunate. There were many warnings, and opportunities to self regulate, but unfortunately they were not heeded. That is really sad and regrettable.
It would assist these communities even at this late stage, were they come to realise that changes of some sort are inevitable, and encouraging healing rather than amputation. Unfortunately we are more likely to see a last dying feeding frenzy instead, and this will not help their cause.

There does not however need to be a cushion, sweeter, or safety blanket, for those whose whole reason for existing is to cause grief, anguish, and pain for the maximum number of people.

Thankfully. or hopefully, these are in the minority and the rest of these communities will move on having more fun, without the stigma attached to them.

There is no risk for wardecers who only wardec corps/alliances I described, and that is the majority of wardecs. How very wrong this wardec can go is clearly visible on the recent crusade of Pottebee against Triumvirate via the use of wardec corps Marmite and POH. They failed hilariously against TRI. Wardecers don't want that to happen all the time, wardecers only want to kill, not get killed. That is why they generally attack only those who don't fight back and not those who could fight back. They both follow the same rule book, but that rule book does not contain rules equally applying to both parties.
Not to mention: I have been personally nominated as a priority target by CODE. Does something happen to me because of that? No, because CODE and all the other Elite PVPers are too afraid of going out of their cosy High sec protection. My alliance has been wardeced by many alliances before. Do they come for us where we live? No, because they are too afraid of leaving their High sec protection behind and go to space where something could and does happen to them that they don't want. This is how I see how risk vs. reward is all nice and dandy, but then please everyone should abide by it.
That risk is already there and it is also there in rookie systems in the form of vigilant players who report them botting. In other systems, the risk is always there in the form of suicide gankers in High sec and other PVP elements in Low/Null sec.

They only make much money because the rest of the players want to depend on that easily accessible market. Absolutely no game mechanic is forcing people to go to Jita to buy stuff if you live in Sov Null sec, for instance. You can build everything there, cheaper and faster. Naturally, you need to import something from other areas of space. But you can do that at home or via trade posts on your borders. You can also create trade hubs in Low sec or your border systems to Low/High sec and entice people to trade there with you instead of in Jita. Why does it not work? See above. It's again completely the player's fault that players rather trade in Jita than with Low/Null blocks. Players are not interested in that kind of stuff but they constantly complain about the lack of exactly that. Maybe this is about to change, if this freeport thingy takes off, but I have my doubts as long as players are only after such short sighted playing.
Not only carebears don't want to accept greater risks -- and quite frankly, why should they? --, it is also and mostly the PVPers and the big blocks who don't want to take risks. Yesterday, an NC. fleet came through a WH all the way over from Querious to fight in Syndicate against us and IVY and then sort-of was disappointed when neither of us wanted to comply with their demands. Instead of going after CFC or the big players in Stain closer to their home or shrink their renting empire down to create more space for competitors, they keep the status quo and complain about how there's nothing happening in the game. People go to gank in High sec for extended periods of time and then wonder why no one is in their space and why nothing is happening in their space. I can tell you why there is nothing going on.

Marmite was the only merc that took this contract as POH did not want to sit in Jita. If you knew your facts you would know that we don't turn down fights

Assumptions ruin certain aspects of this game.

Just shoot them anyway. Once you can fly a T2 ship, "rookie" protections don't apply to you.

Plus they can fold and reform corp for a small fraction of the ISK cost to the attacking corporation.

No, things are definitely stacked in favour of the defending corp. But in terms of risk in space, both are equal opportunity targets to each other was my point.