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CSM - Do you think? (... continued)

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Khira Kitamatsu
#101 - 2011-09-12 10:39:07 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
Jita Alt666 wrote:
CCP want more players in 0.0.

0.0 players invest more time/energy/real life money than high sec players.
0.0 players create the stories that drive EVE marketing.
0.0 is the defining difference between Eve Online and WOW in space.

Because 0.0 players invest more time/energy/real life money into the game they care more about what happens than other groups. They will ensure CCP hears their voice.



So you're 15$ or 30$ or even 45$ is worth more than say mine because you choose to play in null-sec? What utter BS. My money is worth the same as yours and just because we play in different areas of the game does not mean one is more important than another. This idea that null-sec is the game of EVE is also BS. Most people that play EVE never go into null-sec, let alone low-sec. CCP's own data shows this. That doesn't mean CCP should concentrate on making high-sec the game of EVE...it just means their are gamers that play EVE differently than those that chose to play in null-sec. Your money does not carry more weight than my just because of where you play in the game of EVE - period!


Nullsec makes EvE(and by extension CCP) get into the press. There has never been a story about highsec miners in major newspapers, you read about people ripping off nullsec alliances for 900 trillion isk. Our 15$ per account is worth no more than yours, but the impact to the game is more than will ever be generated in highsec. THAT is why the voice of the nullsec player needs to be louder than that of highsec, and that is why it is a good idea to make nullsec a more significant part of the game than it is now, instead of something that 80% of the player base never gets to experience first hand, and dismiss as that place full of jerks and elitists.


Doesn't change the truth. The truth is most people that play EVE never leave high-sec and never intend to. No matter what CCP does most people will never go there. If CCP suddenly took away high-sec space all this game would have left is 2/10ths of its player base. Because on that day most people would quit playing.

EVE is not null-sec. Scream it all you want, but that changes nothing, because the truth is the truth.

Ponies!  We need more ponies!
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#102 - 2011-09-12 10:46:02 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
I agree and think that high sec should have a region between and including Jita and Amarr, where it is all 1.0 space and even more care-bear than regular space. No tolerance of war declarations and no tolerance of remote repairing from outside the fleet. This would save CCP many subscriptions.
Drawback to living there? You can still be suicide ganked and resources such as belts will be severely depleted. Your corp will be starved out to other space.


I'd say just set all 1.0 space to something along those lines, if such a nerf were to go into effect. However, I think providing better recruitment tools would go a long way towards preventing the whole collapse thing(get people into existing structures instead of starting their own).

Perhaps a simple yes/no at the end of each of the newbie tutorials(for the professions) with a yes/no asking if thats what they want to do, and if they say yes it puts their application into the queue for a corp that has selected that as something they do(similar to the current corp recruitment advert system, if you are familiar with it, but more involuntary). Only issue there is the need to set up a pvp tutorial. Maybe keep the newbies in an arena where is keeps putting them in 1v1 vs other newbies til they have lost twice, get them used to dying to other players and give them a taste of pew pew.

PS, god my job is boring some nights Lol

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Barricade Dark
#103 - 2011-09-12 10:49:30 UTC
Doesn't change the truth. The truth is most people that play EVE never leave high-sec and never intend to. No matter what CCP
Quote:
does most people will never go there. If CCP suddenly took away high-sec space all this game would have left is 2/10ths of its player base. Because on that day most people would quit playing.

EVE is not null-sec. Scream it all you want, but that changes nothing, because the truth is the truth.


Its not that I disagree with you here, because I actually don't but I will point out that their is no actual hard evidence to support this. This is just something we have grown accustomed to saying and repeating. Its a "sense" of the game we have because a large portion of the population on any given day resides in High Sec.

However null sec and wormhole play in particular are no longer "must live their to be their" options. I go to low, null and womrhole space everyday with a character that is about a month old (along with my corp mates who are roughly the same age). Grant it Im not a new player but after playing this game from high sec with my main industrial I created a PvP character to do specifically that (go into null sec and wormholes) to try that part of the game out.

The question remains, how many people live in High Sec but actually spend their game time in low, null and wormhole space like I do? Personally.. and again I have no hard data, just a feeling, I think their is considerbly more carebearish players venturing into these areas. I find myself scraping with them all the time.. miners, industrial characters.. mission runners. They are venturing into these places because despite all the complaining about High Sec being more profitable (while it may very well be) its not nearly as interesting (exciting if you will) as low, null and WH space.

Needless to say, personally I think the philosophy in design should be coming from the basic questions "When we implement this change how will it affect ALL players in the game"... if the answers is positive for everyone, the change should be implemented.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#104 - 2011-09-12 10:57:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Barricade Dark wrote:

Needless to say, personally I think the philosophy in design should be coming from the basic questions "When we implement this change how will it affect ALL players in the game"... if the answers is positive for everyone, the change should be implemented.

Agreed and on main topic of this thread. I think not enough of that has been done. I feel Goons has too much influence.

Tallian Saotome wrote:
[(get people into existing structures instead of starting their own).

This should be done anyway. The list of other corporations should be easy to find, in your face when you are in an NPC corp and high light the bigger corps and their over all objectives

Tallian Saotome wrote:
Nullsec makes EvE(and by extension CCP) get into the press.


Speaking of which - Goons

Null sec would have less problems if it wasn't in the news all the time. It is because their voices are already too loud that the number of new subscribers is dwindling.

Time to muzzle the dogs and let people join EVE for the space ships instead of the alliance drama putting them off. They can find out about null sec in their own time.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#105 - 2011-09-12 11:24:37 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Speaking of which - Goons

Null sec would have less problems if it wasn't in the news all the time. It is because their voices are already too loud that the number of new subscribers is dwindling.

Time to muzzle the dogs and let people join EVE for the space ships instead of the alliance drama putting them off. They can find out about null sec in their own time.

yes, Goons. Guess what, its those stories that made EvE as big as it is today. Why did you join EvE? Did you hear all the stories of sitting in highsec mining while not knowing what to do for weeks on end to be a massive draw, or did you hear about the heists, and the drama, and the crazy wars?

I suppose its possible a friend brought you in, if thats the case, ask the friend why.

Believe it or not, even the RMT stories bring people in, because people want to see a virtual spaceship thats worth over six thousand real dollars, and they want a chance to be the guy who steals it. They would never realize its value without the RMT being in the news Pirate

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Khira Kitamatsu
#106 - 2011-09-12 11:27:32 UTC
Barricade Dark wrote:
Doesn't change the truth. The truth is most people that play EVE never leave high-sec and never intend to. No matter what CCP
Quote:
does most people will never go there. If CCP suddenly took away high-sec space all this game would have left is 2/10ths of its player base. Because on that day most people would quit playing.

EVE is not null-sec. Scream it all you want, but that changes nothing, because the truth is the truth.


Its not that I disagree with you here, because I actually don't but I will point out that their is no actual hard evidence to support this.


Actually there is, because CCP's in-house economist Dr. Eyjolfur Gudmundsson has said as much in numerous interviews. He has stated that even though only 20% of the player base resides in low/null sec - they are responsible for 80% of all the ships are destroyed in game.



Ponies!  We need more ponies!
Jenshae Chiroptera
#107 - 2011-09-12 12:06:03 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:

I suppose its possible a friend brought you in, if thats the case, ask the friend why.

I play Anarchy Online and wanted to have the space side of a game. I was unemployed at the time so I joined EVE instead of Star Trek Online

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#108 - 2011-09-12 13:17:42 UTC
Quote:
Nullsec makes EvE(and by extension CCP) get into the press. There has never been a story about highsec miners in major newspapers, you read about people ripping off nullsec alliances for 900 trillion isk. Our 15$ per account is worth no more than yours, but the impact to the game is more than will ever be generated in highsec. THAT is why the voice of the nullsec player needs to be louder than that of highsec, and that is why it is a good idea to make nullsec a more significant part of the game than it is now, instead of something that 80% of the player base never gets to experience first hand, and dismiss as that place full of jerks and elitists.


You don't even understand what you are talking about.

For one, the biggest Heist so far has been from Hisec. There are way more people in hisec. The reason it makes a difference is because people spends thousands of real world dollars buying ships for nullsec.

But the problem is this;

Alliance gets a hold on good ratting space.

People bot.

People RMT.

RMT'ers sell isk for way less than half of what CCP sells it for.

I wont link to any of that $**** here, but 5 minutes with google and you can confirm for yourself. And it has been linked to right here (on the old forums anyway) so that one can see.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Jenshae Chiroptera
#109 - 2011-09-12 23:51:03 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:

But the problem is this;
.

Who is most responsible for doing these things and should be studied so we come up with good solutions?

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Jita Alt666
#110 - 2011-09-12 23:56:07 UTC
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:


Actually there is, because CCP's in-house economist Dr. Eyjolfur Gudmundsson has said as much in numerous interviews. He has stated that even though only 20% of the player base resides in low/null sec - they are responsible for 80% of all the ships are destroyed in game.




So the 20% of players are responsible for 80% of the ingame economy. Without that 20% driving the ship sales that are produced by the 80% in empire the 80% of high sec only players would find their economy dies.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#111 - 2011-09-13 00:14:34 UTC
Jita Alt666 wrote:


So the 20% of players are responsible for 80% of the ingame economy. Without that 20% driving the ship sales that are produced by the 80% in empire the 80% of high sec only players would find their economy dies.


... or prices would drop to closer to that of cost, ships would be cheaper to buy and fit, more manufacturing would be done in the alliance or corp for the members and high sec players would then PvP more often. Roll

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#112 - 2011-09-13 01:08:40 UTC
Jita Alt666 wrote:
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:


Actually there is, because CCP's in-house economist Dr. Eyjolfur Gudmundsson has said as much in numerous interviews. He has stated that even though only 20% of the player base resides in low/null sec - they are responsible for 80% of all the ships are destroyed in game.




So the 20% of players are responsible for 80% of the ingame economy. Without that 20% driving the ship sales that are produced by the 80% in empire the 80% of high sec only players would find their economy dies.


Its def. not 20% by number of kills, as per the previous QENs.

So then its the value of the ships destroyed.

And last time I checked only the mighty Chribba was allowed to have caps in hisec. So its not driving hisec ship sales.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Richard Aiel
The Merchants of War
#113 - 2011-09-13 02:26:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Aiel
Princess Cellestia wrote:
Ok we're going to have a little fun here
Two people have just started playing eve. They've gone through the tutorial, and have started doing L1 missions. Both are in the recruitment channel because running around solo is a bit overwhelming while at the same time kinda dull. One person gets recruited by a nullsec alliance, the other by a high sec mission corp.

Nullsec boy pods out and joins his new alliance, hes given a training plan for his alliance's fleet doctrine, has a few million isk thrown at him, some free frigates, some salvaging destroyers and he's on his way. During his first week he goes along on a strat op. 500 people show up for this fleet and an epic battle takes place as his alliance attempts to take a system from their enemies. Nullboy manages to tackle a few battleships and somehow survive when enemy caps jump in. Nullboy tackles a carrier as allied caps jump in as well, the enemy runs, all except Nullboy's carrier, it dies and nullboy is the hero of the day. Cheering and forum circle jerking abound. He grinds through skills, getting to fly bigger and better ships, and is provided with good fits for both fleet pvp, solo pvp, and pve. He pulls in isk through belt ratting, he hears alliance mates complain that a certain item they need all the time isnt on the market in sufficient quantity when they need it, and they're sick of importing a few at a time when they run out, he hires an alliance jf pilot to haul out a crap load of it and it sells like hotcakes. He now has isk to buy anything he needs, good friends to hang out with, skill and knowledge to fly whatever he wants, and the knowledge that he is important to a large community.

Highboy meets up with his new corp mates after flying 30 jumps to their area of Highsec. He does missions progressing through the levels, training random skills he thinks he might need, buying what he can with bounties, mission rewards, and selling LP crap. He flies L4s over and over, usually alone, sometimes with a corp mate. Eventually he will have billions of isk. Whee.

Which one is more likely to stay with EVE in the long term. The guy who grinds missions and gets rich, but is pretty much playing solo? Or the guy who participates in a large community, that participates in epic battles and can change the face of the game universe? I'd say Nullboy is sticking around for years to come.


Funny thing about this story; Yeah I read the stories, but about a month or so into the game, six months really, like all other mmos Ive ever played, I realized the likelyhood of me actually getting involved in one of those stories is about as likely as me in real life getting involved in a story that becomes a legend in real life.
How many times out of ten does nullboy become the linch pin for all his mates an those ppl in null?
Or how many times goes he get shot an podded in losec trying to get to null?
Or brought into a corp just to be cannon fodder "meat shield"s I think theyre called?
Or get into a corp that just invited him in to murder him for ***** n giggles?
Or gets murdered over an over an over an over before he can even find a corp TO belong to and gives up an goes back to high sec?
Or any number of unpleasant things before he gives up an goes back to highsec?
You want more people going into null sec? Make it more possible for them to GET there and to survive there.
Dont nerf other parts of the game, make null more appealing.
Its been my experience (been in null quite a few times, chose to go back to highsec) the people that keep new people from going into null the most are the people already IN null. Either "only 20mill sp allowed" corps, griefer corps, gatecamps, or just plain assholes. Fix that an maybe youll get your people.
But that doesnt work either cause thats nerfing the fun and the game of the pirates and the griefers.
OR - OR people (like me) that just DONT LIKE NULL
That just dont like scattering to the POS like cockroaches as soon as a neut jumps into system. That dont like the military mindset of "orders" "yes sir". When I say jump, you say how high? Type of crap. I realize the reasoning, it keeps you from getting killed in Null, Id rather play my sandbox game the way I want to play my sandbox game. Maybe Ill eventually end up in null, maybe not, but I wan to make MY OWN decision as to whether or not I go.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r188/buddahcjcc/SOA-3-2.jpg
Skunk Gracklaw
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#114 - 2011-09-13 03:33:24 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Null sec would have less problems if it wasn't in the news all the time. It is because their voices are already too loud that the number of new subscribers is dwindling

If we are keeping people like you out of Eve then there is literally no downside.
Basileus Volkan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#115 - 2011-09-13 04:17:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Basileus Volkan
Richard Aiel wrote:

Funny thing about this story; Yeah I read the stories, but about a month or so into the game, six months really, like all other mmos Ive ever played, I realized the likelyhood of me actually getting involved in one of those stories is about as likely as me in real life getting involved in a story that becomes a legend in real life.


So apparently my EvE career so far* belongs to the realm of myth and legend?

The more you know!

M- Maybe it's because of you and not the way 0.0 Alliances work.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#116 - 2011-09-13 04:21:56 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:


You don't even understand what you are talking about.

For one, the biggest Heist so far has been from Hisec. There are way more people in hisec.
Biggest heist was Kartoon's sacking of Goonswarm. Both in isk and in assets.
Quote:
But the problem is this;

Alliance gets a hold on good ratting space.

People bot.

People RMT.
Most botting is done in highsec, it's just not newsworthy.
Richard Aiel
The Merchants of War
#117 - 2011-09-13 05:49:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Aiel
lol at all the red bars I see that say "view post" but, you know what, Im good cause that means theyre Goons an I can do without seeing them.
Thank you CCP, you made EVE-O much more bearable Big smile

What was the one youre talking about Cipher? the bank job?

Cipher Jones wrote:

But the problem is this;

Alliance gets a hold on good ratting space.

People bot.

People RMT.


Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
it's just not newsworthy.


Yeah funny how its more newsworthy when the ppl in 0.0 crying loudest for highsec nerfs (cause they make more money QQ) and have CCP's ear, are the ones that are botting.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r188/buddahcjcc/SOA-3-2.jpg
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#118 - 2011-09-13 06:23:29 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Jita Alt666 wrote:
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:


Actually there is, because CCP's in-house economist Dr. Eyjolfur Gudmundsson has said as much in numerous interviews. He has stated that even though only 20% of the player base resides in low/null sec - they are responsible for 80% of all the ships are destroyed in game.




So the 20% of players are responsible for 80% of the ingame economy. Without that 20% driving the ship sales that are produced by the 80% in empire the 80% of high sec only players would find their economy dies.


Its def. not 20% by number of kills, as per the previous QENs.

So then its the value of the ships destroyed.

And last time I checked only the mighty Chribba was allowed to have caps in hisec. So its not driving hisec ship sales.


Capitals built in 0.0 are most certainly built from minerals purchased in hi-sec. I'm given to understand that the most frequently used modules for mineral compression are 425mm rails and 1400 arty. Buy a jillion railguns in Jita -> freighter rails to refinery -> use refined minerals for capital parts -> use capital parts for new Nyx.

It's hard to argue that a large part of the demand for hi-sec products is not from 0.0. The issue is that at the moment there's not a great deal that hi-sec needs from 0.0 in return.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Prince Kobol
#119 - 2011-09-13 06:40:22 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:


You don't even understand what you are talking about.

For one, the biggest Heist so far has been from Hisec. There are way more people in hisec.
Biggest heist was Kartoon's sacking of Goonswarm. Both in isk and in assets.
Quote:
But the problem is this;

Alliance gets a hold on good ratting space.

People bot.

People RMT.
Most botting is done in highsec, it's just not newsworthy.



Lol.. of course it is :)

Who sells isk to the RMT sites.... oh thats right, it must be the 1 person in mack botting in a ice field and not the 100's of bots in null earning millions of isk ratting bots?

Spend about 5 minutes on a few bot forums and you will see the vast majority of them live in null.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#120 - 2011-09-13 06:48:57 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:

Spend about 5 minutes on a few bot forums and you will see the vast majority of them live in null.

I don't frequent bot forums.

Funny that you do though.