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Prototype: Dojos

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Bamboozlement
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1081 - 2014-10-08 02:47:55 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Bamboozlement wrote:

You are implying that dojos don't respect the risk vs reward philosophy, which is wrong.


No, it's quite correct. This aborted concept completely removes any risk of interference by a third party, at no cost. It reduces risk, and does not have a penalty attached to it.

Ergo, it does not respect risk/reward.


Sorry but you're wrong, you can only gank me when I choose a gameplay with enough rewards to warrant that risk.

Ganking is not the only way to interfere with people in EVE Online (you must be new or something, it's okay; welcome) you have ways to interact with dojos and people deploying them.

Feel free to prove me wrong by ganking me, I'll be in jita 4-4 station or cloaked to a safe.

I have a Ph.D
Odis Franty
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1082 - 2014-10-08 06:25:03 UTC
VERY GOOD NEWS
Odis Franty
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1083 - 2014-10-14 16:52:27 UTC
this could be great way for CEO's to recruit people, "join now, we have lots of isk dedicated to practice and our dojos are packed with goodies"
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1084 - 2014-10-14 17:46:06 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Bamboozlement wrote:

You are implying that dojos don't respect the risk vs reward philosophy, which is wrong.


No, it's quite correct. This aborted concept completely removes any risk of interference by a third party, at no cost. It reduces risk, and does not have a penalty attached to it.

Ergo, it does not respect risk/reward.


The protection from 3rd party come at the cost of not having 3rd party help available. I also didn't see any tangible reward in Veritas' post so the risk don't really need to be all that much for the risk/reward ratio to be somewhat decent...
Tedd Haggard
Banana Co.
#1085 - 2014-10-20 04:51:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Tedd Haggard
I haven't read through all 55 pages, so apologies if this has been suggested before. But from what I've read, this could be a cool gladiators arena ... with spaceships.

Rather than stocking the dojo with modules/fits, approach it differently...

Dojo Clones
To take part in a dojo, you need to buy a clone from the market. Clones allow you a skill point limit to spend as you wish, these are tiered so the price goes up and you get more skill points to spend. Dojo clones can only be used in a dojo event and if your spaceship pops, your clone is gone and you need to buy a new one.


Clone tiers
Dojo clones will come in several tiers (needs some thought). Skill points can be reset up until your first fight, after that they're permanent.

Novice clones: 1M SP @ 100k ISK
Cadet clones: 3M SP @ 1M ISK
Officer clones: 8M SP @ 10M ISK
Gladiator clones: 15M SP @ 20M ISK

...something along those lines.

Fitting ships
Fitting ships will work as normal. But you'll obviously have to fit the ship to suit your dojo clone skills.

Taking part
The dojo fights will only allow balanced numbers of players. It will also be broken down by tiers based on the clones; only the same type of clones can fight each other.


Rewards
Destroying a ship in the dojo will get you 10% of the enemy ship value (split equally if there are more players) plus 50% of the their accumulated reward plus 10% of all money won through betting. This reward will not be given directly, but will accumulate on your clone. Each additional dojo fight will increase the ship payout percentage up to a cap of 80%. You can 'cash out' your clone after any fight, this will transfer all accumulated reward to your wallet and reset the reward percentage back to 10%.

Spectating and speculating
All fights can be watched from the comfort of the station. From there bets can be made before the fight starts. Betting is only against other players, there's no odds or ISK being created. All winnings are calculated based on amounts that players have bet with.
TheExtruder
TheExtruder Corporation
#1086 - 2014-10-25 21:13:44 UTC
personally i would set up dojos in places like Uedama in order to attract more anti-gank support. if active pvp'ers hang out in gank hotspots around highsec it means more people are ready and able to participate in anti-gank fleets (as opposed to being busy pvp'ing and having fun somewhere else long time ago in a galaxy far far away)
Mharius Skjem
Guardians of the Underworld
#1087 - 2014-10-25 22:48:10 UTC
This idea is very uneve. Hope it dies on its arse.

A recovering btter vet,  with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...

Don't take me too seriously though, I like to tease a bit on the forums, but that's only because I love you...
Josef Djugashvilis
#1088 - 2014-10-26 08:04:33 UTC
I look forward to a dev informing us that this silly idea has been abandoned at best and at worse, left on SiSi.

This is not a signature.
TheExtruder
TheExtruder Corporation
#1089 - 2014-10-27 09:01:58 UTC
people who have bad opinions of dojos probably have some kind of greedy agenda to keep their businesses going or maybe they just want more flies to be caught in their pvp net somewhere in lowsec which nobody cares about Lol
The Hamilton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1090 - 2014-10-27 10:01:11 UTC
TheExtruder wrote:
people who have bad opinions of dojos probably have some kind of greedy agenda to keep their businesses going or maybe they just want more flies to be caught in their pvp net somewhere in lowsec which nobody cares about Lol


Or just don't want to see space become empty of willing PvPers. Most small gang and solo PvPers would simply use dojo's instead to get their PvP fix instead of going out into the UNKNOWN and creating more meaningful content. Just because you are afraid doesn't mean others are, but making a road easier to travel means that is the one EVE players always take.
TheExtruder
TheExtruder Corporation
#1091 - 2014-10-27 12:15:41 UTC
The Hamilton wrote:
TheExtruder wrote:
people who have bad opinions of dojos probably have some kind of greedy agenda to keep their businesses going or maybe they just want more flies to be caught in their pvp net somewhere in lowsec which nobody cares about Lol


Or just don't want to see space become empty of willing PvPers. Most small gang and solo PvPers would simply use dojo's instead to get their PvP fix instead of going out into the UNKNOWN and creating more meaningful content. Just because you are afraid doesn't mean others are, but making a road easier to travel means that is the one EVE players always take.


most people (including myself) that are not very experinced in PvP dont dare to go out into lowsec/null into the UNKNOWN but it doesnt mean the game shouldnt try to appeal to us carebears
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
#1092 - 2014-10-27 13:26:05 UTC
And it's a shame really there is nothing daring about going to low/null, it is space like any other space.
Evora Pirkibo
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#1093 - 2014-10-27 14:30:42 UTC
TheExtruder wrote:
most people (including myself) that are not very experinced in PvP dont dare to go out into lowsec/null into the UNKNOWN but it doesnt mean the game shouldnt try to appeal to us carebears

Yes. Yes it does.

Why don't you dare? Because others are successful, possibly at your expense? And you say the reason to not go to these areas because of your lack of pvp experience, yet going there is how you get said experience. So you, and the others you attempt to speak for are victims of your own self limitation, and want the game catered to suit your limitations.

Lest we forget Eve and the term sandbox used to describe it does not mean you can do what ever you like. It means you can try to do what ever you like.

On a long enough timeline, the life expectancy of everyone drops to zero.
TheExtruder
TheExtruder Corporation
#1094 - 2014-10-27 15:22:40 UTC
Evora Pirkibo wrote:
TheExtruder wrote:
most people (including myself) that are not very experinced in PvP dont dare to go out into lowsec/null into the UNKNOWN but it doesnt mean the game shouldnt try to appeal to us carebears

Yes. Yes it does.

Why don't you dare? Because others are successful, possibly at your expense? And you say the reason to not go to these areas because of your lack of pvp experience, yet going there is how you get said experience. So you, and the others you attempt to speak for are victims of your own self limitation, and want the game catered to suit your limitations.

Lest we forget Eve and the term sandbox used to describe it does not mean you can do what ever you like. It means you can try to do what ever you like.


fear of unknown is one of the biggest fears for a man. its easy to say "overcome your fear", but hard to do. You can't be so pushy toward carebears to overcome their fears, you have to cater the game around this
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1095 - 2014-10-27 15:25:09 UTC
absolutley friggin AWESOME!

ahem +1
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#1096 - 2014-10-27 15:29:17 UTC
TheExtruder wrote:


you have to cater the game around this


you really dont.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
#1097 - 2014-10-27 15:44:53 UTC
TheExtruder wrote:
Evora Pirkibo wrote:
TheExtruder wrote:
most people (including myself) that are not very experinced in PvP dont dare to go out into lowsec/null into the UNKNOWN but it doesnt mean the game shouldnt try to appeal to us carebears

Yes. Yes it does.

Why don't you dare? Because others are successful, possibly at your expense? And you say the reason to not go to these areas because of your lack of pvp experience, yet going there is how you get said experience. So you, and the others you attempt to speak for are victims of your own self limitation, and want the game catered to suit your limitations.

Lest we forget Eve and the term sandbox used to describe it does not mean you can do what ever you like. It means you can try to do what ever you like.


fear of unknown is one of the biggest fears for a man. its easy to say "overcome your fear", but hard to do. You can't be so pushy toward carebears to overcome their fears, you have to cater the game around this

Or just explain to noobies that there is nothing to fear in those areas and teach them how to use the tools they already have.
Evora Pirkibo
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#1098 - 2014-10-27 15:46:04 UTC
TheExtruder wrote:
fear of unknown is one of the biggest fears for a man. its easy to say "overcome your fear", but hard to do. You can't be so pushy toward carebears to overcome their fears, you have to cater the game around this

You cant be so pushy to cater the game to those unwilling to experience its true nature. Every successful pvper was once not, and learned to overcome their challenges.

If anything, the high concentration of players in highsec indicates a need for dispersal across more areas of space. Not that eve should cater even more content options for those that choose to live exclusively there. We need more reasons for players to leave highsec far more desperately than content to keep them happy there.

On a long enough timeline, the life expectancy of everyone drops to zero.
TheExtruder
TheExtruder Corporation
#1099 - 2014-10-27 15:56:38 UTC
Evora Pirkibo wrote:
TheExtruder wrote:
fear of unknown is one of the biggest fears for a man. its easy to say "overcome your fear", but hard to do. You can't be so pushy toward carebears to overcome their fears, you have to cater the game around this

You cant be so pushy to cater the game to those unwilling to experience its true nature. Every successful pvper was once not, and learned to overcome their challenges.

If anything, the high concentration of players in highsec indicates a need for dispersal across more areas of space. Not that eve should cater even more content options for those that choose to live exclusively there. We need more reasons for players to leave highsec far more desperately than content to keep them happy there.


yeah true. but i strongly feel a middle ground needs to be found between those who are active pvp and those who are slowly moving in that direction. if people become experts at fits and know what their ship is capable of in combat, they they will dare to venture out into the unknown more. finding a middle ground is the way to go, thats why ccp is getting better at creating PvE missions, its a middle ground and a preparation for the real thing
Evora Pirkibo
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#1100 - 2014-10-27 16:24:40 UTC
Not really. But the middle ground is emergent, and preexisting. For example, RvB - RED Federation, which you should be familiar with. The middle ground is within the social component, talk to those that are successful and seek advice and help. there are plenty willing to give it. Not to mention the numerous streams, youtube videos, and guides easily accessible outside of the game. When you get right down to it, there is no substitute for the real thing.

And as a previous poster kindly pointed out, there really isn't anything to fear from venturing out of your comfort zone. Just gaps in knowledge to close.

On a long enough timeline, the life expectancy of everyone drops to zero.