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Star Citizen v EVE

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ISD Flidais Asagiri
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#1841 - 2014-10-19 17:43:57 UTC
Greetings,

While we respect everyones opinions, and we all have them, we also have a responsibility to remain on topic. Please do so.

On On

ISD Flidais Asagiri Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1842 - 2014-10-19 18:29:30 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
I post this:

I mean, I don't get it. He doesn't like EVE as much as the unfinished Elite game he's playing, yet he's here again commenting about how he doesn't like EVE....

At the end of the day it's Spite, he doesn't like the kinds of people he's met in EVE so rather than go and do something he likes and let others do something else they like, he spends a chunk of (irreplaceable) time 'trolling' people he doesn't like. What a sad existence.





Sorry I am a hater. I met some great people in EVE, just not on the forums. I still hang out with them. Half of them have quit EVE and others only play it only now and again.

Its not really a sad existence being a hater because its rather entertaining. I was bored waiting for beta 3 in ED (so haven't been playing it since they are going to do another player wipe on October 28th. I might go explore for some potential mining sites since they are going to introduce mining then) and CCP offered me 10 free days so I thought to entertain myself on the EVE forums. You'll see me about once per year. I might even use one of my stored plexes to tell everyone how great Elite Dangerous is when they release it. Anyways, its good to see faces still dedicated to the forum wars. I think that is more entertaining than EVE ever was. Thanks for being entertaining. If no one replied to me then it was a wasted post.

The nice thing about ED is that once you buy it, you don't have to play it if you don't want to. Whereas EVE requires a good deal of effort to play for free and I don't think its worth $100 some dollars a year. Not in the age of F2P.

See, games don't have be better than EVE, they have to be good enough and free.

Anyways, my point is that I don't know about Star Citizen. Its mostly an arena and racing game now rather than an open world. Elite Dangerous on the other hand is open world (sort of instanced though) and is more anarchaic than EVE was.

Hrm... I think I will make a post about Elite vs EVE later tonight after I get home from a diner party.

On an aside (get it), I have never been ganked other than faction warfare and that was expected. I have never been scammed (although I have given money away to a scammer to prove a point that they were a scammer, but I got it back strangely enough). So I am not really that jaded. However, the forums time and time again prove to be toxic.



That's justt excuse making. in fact it's the "those other people were bad 1st, so me being an (insert terms that would get me perma-banned) is ok. The truth is, this is who you probably just really are. And that's sad, because adults should be better than that. Personally, i don't get it, no one has to be nice, but to intentionally troll people is just...I don't even know what to call that.

At the end of the day, the kind of attitude you've displayed is whats wrong with the internet (and by extension, society in general).
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1843 - 2014-10-19 22:35:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Tardbar
Gee. I guess people can't tell the difference between being bad in game and nice in real life. Aren't there mega threads about that saying that you can be as bad as you want to be in EVE and yet still be a good person. Sorry it upsets you. I don't feel bad about it though and get joy making you post.

Anyways... Star Citizen is going to come out and it is going to change things. So is the Oculus Rift.

Winds of change...

Don't pee in it.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#1844 - 2014-10-21 16:35:07 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Gee. I guess people can't tell the difference between being bad in game and nice in real life. Aren't there mega threads about that saying that you can be as bad as you want to be in EVE and yet still be a good person. Sorry it upsets you. I don't feel bad about it though and get joy making you post.

Anyways... Star Citizen is going to come out and it is going to change things. So is the Oculus Rift.

Winds of change...

Don't pee in it.



if I had $1 for everytime I heard someone way 'Game x will change things and then eve will die" i'd be a rich man.

SC is at a bare min, 2 years out from completition, this is already 2 years behind schedule. Based on Roberts track record that doesn't bode well. The last game he was behind on, he had to sell it to Microsoft to get it finished.

While ED might be fun, its still in beta. You may sing a different tune when its out fully and you have played it for a few weeks or months. Or you may not, boo know, boo cares.

Two points:

No game will kill eve, sorry won't happen. Only CCP will kill it. Even if subs drop, EVE would prolly just go F2P. But as ED and I guess SC will not have subscriptions, then its not a big deal to set a huge skill queue in eve, pay for a year then go fiddle fart around in ED/SC until one gets bored, and jump back into eve for a bit.

People can and often do play more then a single game.

SC is a long way off form completion, and TBH... I think its Vaporware, but meh. Competiton is good, and I think both ed and sc will have the opposite effect, it won't kill eve, but it will kight a fire under CCP's ass, which is already has, and will make eve better in the long run. But it matters not to me, i'll be here till either the servers die or the pry the keyboard out of my cold dead hands.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1845 - 2014-10-22 13:53:42 UTC
DaReaper wrote:



if I had $1 for everytime I heard someone way 'Game x will change things and then eve will die" i'd be a rich man.


Me too, and it's not just EVE, every game I've ever played has had people on forums or in game chat speculating about the next new thing and how it would affect the game they were playing. It's kind of a standard anxiety.

The people who like the game worry about their game dying and them having nothing to play or having to adapt to some knew game (or *gasp* being forced to talk to their girlfriend/wife/people in general lol).

The people who hate the game (because can't seem to stop playing or paying for it or posting about it) speculate and ever cheer lead for 'the next big thing' because they are hoping for something that either kills the game or forces the developer to reform the game into something they actually like (as if that were possible, haters gonna hate regardless). This is why for 11 years people have posted (X game is gonna kill EVE) .

Oddly, the same people , rather than learn from the past when X game doesn't kill EVE, simply shift their hopes to yet another game. As i've said, they don't understand what EVE is and what it offers (hint: it's not just space ships or space or spreadsheets or even the community) and thus don't understand the kind of game that could kill EVE if it were ever conceived.
digitalwanderer
DW inc
#1846 - 2014-10-24 03:39:26 UTC  |  Edited by: digitalwanderer
Jenn aSide wrote:
DaReaper wrote:



if I had $1 for everytime I heard someone way 'Game x will change things and then eve will die" i'd be a rich man.


Me too, and it's not just EVE, every game I've ever played has had people on forums or in game chat speculating about the next new thing and how it would affect the game they were playing. It's kind of a standard anxiety.

The people who like the game worry about their game dying and them having nothing to play or having to adapt to some knew game (or *gasp* being forced to talk to their girlfriend/wife/people in general lol).

The people who hate the game (because can't seem to stop playing or paying for it or posting about it) speculate and ever cheer lead for 'the next big thing' because they are hoping for something that either kills the game or forces the developer to reform the game into something they actually like (as if that were possible, haters gonna hate regardless). This is why for 11 years people have posted (X game is gonna kill EVE) .

Oddly, the same people , rather than learn from the past when X game doesn't kill EVE, simply shift their hopes to yet another game. As i've said, they don't understand what EVE is and what it offers (hint: it's not just space ships or space or spreadsheets or even the community) and thus don't understand the kind of game that could kill EVE if it were ever conceived.



Well to be fair, and if you haven't noticed it yet, the graphics on star citizen are already killing the graphics in EVE big time, and we can say the same for the physics with each ship behaving differently depending on role, it's size and mass or the fact that if it gets damaged in a fight, of which the pilot sees real pieces of the ship getting blown off, the handling also suffers in the process if an engine or thruster got hit and isn't operational anymore.


Add the ability to walk inside the ship, boarding actions where pirates can take control of your ship, full HOTAS and six degrees of freedom flight control, and planetary interaction, which the sequence shown 2 weeks ago rocked, and there's plenty where the game is taking the next steps towards more realism, both in visuals and gameplay wise.


Eve is pretty much still standing still in pretty much all those aspects for the last few years.....All that has been done are mainly gameplay changes, with the odd graphics tweak here and there, like the new cloaking effect in the last patch and that's about it really.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#1847 - 2014-10-24 03:48:09 UTC  |  Edited by: DaReaper
digitalwanderer wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
DaReaper wrote:



if I had $1 for everytime I heard someone way 'Game x will change things and then eve will die" i'd be a rich man.


Me too, and it's not just EVE, every game I've ever played has had people on forums or in game chat speculating about the next new thing and how it would affect the game they were playing. It's kind of a standard anxiety.

The people who like the game worry about their game dying and them having nothing to play or having to adapt to some knew game (or *gasp* being forced to talk to their girlfriend/wife/people in general lol).

The people who hate the game (because can't seem to stop playing or paying for it or posting about it) speculate and ever cheer lead for 'the next big thing' because they are hoping for something that either kills the game or forces the developer to reform the game into something they actually like (as if that were possible, haters gonna hate regardless). This is why for 11 years people have posted (X game is gonna kill EVE) .

Oddly, the same people , rather than learn from the past when X game doesn't kill EVE, simply shift their hopes to yet another game. As i've said, they don't understand what EVE is and what it offers (hint: it's not just space ships or space or spreadsheets or even the community) and thus don't understand the kind of game that could kill EVE if it were ever conceived.



Well to be fair, and if you haven't noticed it yet, the graphics on star citizen are already killing the graphics in EVE big time, and we can say the same for the physics with each ship behaving differently depending on role, it's size and mass or the fact that if it gets damaged in a fight, of which the pilot sees real pieces of the ship getting blown off, the handling also suffers in the process if an engine or thruster got hit and isn't operational anymore.



Please look up black prophecy, star wars the old republic both have nice graphics, both were suppose to kill eve, niether did. And what good is nice graphics if the average machine can't play it? In addition, there are plenty of games that look pretty but are all crap when you play them. as for real physics, i'll wait till the game is out and you have people using these mechanics and showing why they prolly will fail. but oh thats right, no game out yet. not even real multiplayer yet... which was suppose to be here how long ago? right already a year behind. oh well it will come eventually

Quote:

Add the ability to walk inside the ship, boarding actions where pirates can take control of your ship, full HOTAS and six degrees of freedom flight control, and planetary interaction, which the sequence shown 2 weeks ago rocked, and there's plenty where the game is taking the next steps towards more realism, both in visuals and gameplay wise.


i'd love to see all this... oh wait, right now none of this is possible. as there is no full game yet. So there is nothing to compair

Quote:

Eve is pretty much still standing still in pretty much all those aspects for the last few years.....All that has been done are mainl
y gameplay changes, with the odd graphics tweak here and there, like the new cloaking effect in the last patch and that's about it really.


right, and once SC is out it will have the same thing, pretty graphics get old, and once you have seen the hundredth landing sequence you will be begging to shut it off. New =! better. Just means its new. And if you dislike eve so much.. why are you still giving ccp money exactly?

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
digitalwanderer
DW inc
#1848 - 2014-10-24 04:25:24 UTC
DaReaper wrote:



Please look up black prophecy, star wars the old republic both have nice graphics, both were suppose to kill eve, niether did. And what good is nice graphics if the average machine can't play it? In addition, there are plenty of games that look pretty but are all crap when you play them. as for real physics, i'll wait till the game is out and you have people using these mechanics and showing why they prolly will fail. but oh thats right, no game out yet. not even real multiplayer yet... which was suppose to be here how long ago? right already a year behind. oh well it will come eventually


i'd love to see all this... oh wait, right now none of this is possible. as there is no full game yet. So there is nothing to compair

right, and once SC is out it will have the same thing, pretty graphics get old, and once you have seen the hundredth landing sequence you will be begging to shut it off. New =! better. Just means its new. And if you dislike eve so much.. why are you still giving ccp money exactly?



It's been shown, all of it in the latest video and I walk around inside my ships all the time, and fly them in combat against either NPC's or players, or in the racing game where you can and do experience red outs and black outs from extreme maneuvers while my Saitek X-55 Hotas is now fully supported and the button layouts can be mapped to my preference.


This whole argument that it doesn't exist yet is getting old and repetitive( you've been on this for like 2 years now, sheesh), and it seems you need to see the entire game in retail to believe it's now a reality......All the features will be in by late 2015 which is when the beta starts.


It's not so much that I dislike EVE, just that it got boring after playing so long and nothing really exciting has been happening with it for the last few years, and while I do try to keep faith that something really big is going to be released with it eventually, it is testing my patience with all the waiting, so as SC gets closer to being fully released, I can see even more people leaving than coming in.
Corvois
Sentinel Development Studio
#1849 - 2014-10-24 10:15:27 UTC
digitalwanderer wrote:

It's been shown, all of it in the latest video and I walk around inside my ships all the time, and fly them in combat against either NPC's or players, or in the racing game where you can and do experience red outs and black outs from extreme maneuvers while my Saitek X-55 Hotas is now fully supported and the button layouts can be mapped to my preference.


I think i can see how Eve might not appeal to you if what you actually wanted to play was DCS in space.
digitalwanderer
DW inc
#1850 - 2014-10-24 16:25:59 UTC
Corvois wrote:
digitalwanderer wrote:

It's been shown, all of it in the latest video and I walk around inside my ships all the time, and fly them in combat against either NPC's or players, or in the racing game where you can and do experience red outs and black outs from extreme maneuvers while my Saitek X-55 Hotas is now fully supported and the button layouts can be mapped to my preference.


I think i can see how Eve might not appeal to you if what you actually wanted to play was DCS in space.



Been playing EVE since it launched in 2003, but time moves on and the game hasn't evolved with the times.


I was excited about Incarna if they had pulled it off, but it pretty much crashed and burned in the biggest way possible, and all we got out of it are captains quarters which no one really uses it at all, except for changing the appearance of one's char and that's about it really.
Corvois
Sentinel Development Studio
#1851 - 2014-10-24 23:09:09 UTC
digitalwanderer wrote:
Corvois wrote:
digitalwanderer wrote:

It's been shown, all of it in the latest video and I walk around inside my ships all the time, and fly them in combat against either NPC's or players, or in the racing game where you can and do experience red outs and black outs from extreme maneuvers while my Saitek X-55 Hotas is now fully supported and the button layouts can be mapped to my preference.


I think i can see how Eve might not appeal to you if what you actually wanted to play was DCS in space.



Been playing EVE since it launched in 2003, but time moves on and the game hasn't evolved with the times.


I was excited about Incarna if they had pulled it off, but it pretty much crashed and burned in the biggest way possible, and all we got out of it are captains quarters which no one really uses it at all, except for changing the appearance of one's char and that's about it really.


I think you just got bored and want to play something else. which is fine, it would have been odd if you didn't eventually tire of a game you played for a decade. Though this doesn't really say as much about eve as it does to your own tastes.

All the stuff you talk about in SC in this thread were never going to be in eve. was never promised for eve and has nothing to do with what eve is as a game. What you seem to talk about is a completely different game. By the way if you like space dog fights and have not played Diaspoa, based on battlestar galactica, you should.
digitalwanderer
DW inc
#1852 - 2014-10-25 00:28:37 UTC
Corvois wrote:
.

All the stuff you talk about in SC in this thread were never going to be in eve. was never promised for eve and has nothing to do with what eve is as a game. What you seem to talk about is a completely different game. By the way if you like space dog fights and have not played Diaspoa, based on battlestar galactica, you should.



Actually, back in 2004 they had this cute demo showing an Amarr frigate flying over a planetary surface, and Oveur which is one of the original developers of the game, and I don't even know if he even works there anymore, even suggested that players will eventually be allowed to become jove, though he never got around to explaining the mechanics of it.


I know the history of this game from the start, even possible content that they were thinking about implementing eventually, and yes it's been bogged down for a very long time, with the latest issue is having acquired white wolf and trying to make a world of darkness MMO and after 6 years, nothing came out of it and early this year, having fired about 100 people working at CCP doesn't boost my confidence one bit.


Now with the latest strategy of releasing larger content patches every 2 months or so rather than the usual pair of large patches every year like it used to be, it seems like a panic move but we'll see.
Black Panpher
CastleKickers
Rote Kapelle
#1853 - 2014-10-25 12:34:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Panpher
Jesus DW, I thought after the last round of self inflicted humiliation you would be too ashamed to raise your head in here again.
I guess your a glutton for punishment.

When sc bombs, and it will, please come back to this thread and tell us exactly how much money you vaporised so we can all have a real good laugh.
digitalwanderer
DW inc
#1854 - 2014-10-25 15:07:04 UTC  |  Edited by: digitalwanderer
Black Panpher wrote:
Jesus DW, I thought after the last round of self inflicted humiliation you would be too ashamed to raise your head in here again.
I guess your a glutton for punishment.

When sc bombs, and it will, please come back to this thread and tell us exactly how much money you vaporised so we can all have a real good laugh.



Only you could resort to an argument that's completely off topic to somehow defend your beloved EVE online, and for the record, i'm already having a blast with what's already been released as far as SC is concerned, even if it's only 25% of the full game.


There's been many promises made for EVE over the years, and they were unveiled at official fan fests in Iceland every year, yet years later they have yet to make it in game, so CCP's credibility is pretty much 0, and it's why many of the old players have left the game, and CCP keeps focusing on the "new player experience" for the last few years.


They don't want those squeletons coming out of the closet basically.
Balshem Rozenzweig
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#1855 - 2014-10-27 13:31:07 UTC
I'd like to see 2 games die: EvE online and WoW. I'd enjoy better versions of both and them dying would mean just that.

Although if WoW dies then their LFG crowd goes to the new WoW so it would kinda hurt the entire point Twisted

I guess I hope only EVE dies Blink

All in all - we want better games. I played WoW right until I got horribly bored with it. I don't see SC competition as a threat. I see it as opportunity for all of us. Till then - we shall continue to help Iceland's economy undisturbed.

"NUTS!!!" - general McAuliffe
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#1856 - 2014-10-27 19:56:07 UTC  |  Edited by: DaReaper
Balshem Rozenzweig wrote:
I'd like to see 2 games die: EvE online and WoW. I'd enjoy better versions of both and them dying would mean just that.

Although if WoW dies then their LFG crowd goes to the new WoW so it would kinda hurt the entire point Twisted

I guess I hope only EVE dies Blink

All in all - we want better games. I played WoW right until I got horribly bored with it. I don't see SC competition as a threat. I see it as opportunity for all of us. Till then - we shall continue to help Iceland's economy undisturbed.



I guess I don't see how a heavily instanced game, with an npc drivin economy, with optional pvp, where everyone has to be and play nice, if any sort of opertunity any eve player would want.

Unless the opportunity is to go into SC and greif the hell out of its carebears and use its game mechaics against it's self. Then sure.

Oh wait.. that's right.. I can walk around in my 100m long ship while I wait for the stupid landing animation to finish! That's the ticket!

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
digitalwanderer
DW inc
#1857 - 2014-10-27 20:33:55 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
Balshem Rozenzweig wrote:
I'd like to see 2 games die: EvE online and WoW. I'd enjoy better versions of both and them dying would mean just that.

Although if WoW dies then their LFG crowd goes to the new WoW so it would kinda hurt the entire point Twisted

I guess I hope only EVE dies Blink

All in all - we want better games. I played WoW right until I got horribly bored with it. I don't see SC competition as a threat. I see it as opportunity for all of us. Till then - we shall continue to help Iceland's economy undisturbed.



I guess I don't see how a heavily instanced game, with an npc drivin economy, with optional pvp, where everyone has to be and play nice, if any sort of opertunity any eve player would want.

Unless the opportunity is to go into SC and greif the hell out of its carebears and use its game mechaics against it's self. Then sure.

Oh wait.. that's right.. I can walk around in my 100m long ship while I wait for the stupid landing animation to finish! That's the ticket!



Wrong on the pvp aspect.....It all depends on the relative security of the system you're currently in, and if it's one on the very edge of UEE space or in hostile territory like the vanduul, you can fight till the end of time.


Fights however will be limited to anywhere from 50 to 100 ships, which is understandable given the amount of artwork and detail going into every ship, so unless you have a super computer at home, don't expect 1000 ship fights as no hardware exists that can handle that with playable frame rates.
digitalwanderer
DW inc
#1858 - 2014-10-27 21:35:21 UTC
Having said that, given that no one will start with anything better than a frigate, and there will be only 1000 of them in game which were sold in advance, from a player base of nearly 633 000 players as of right now, and the 50~100 ship limit since even high end PC's can't handle anything higher, also prevents PVP from becoming a purely numbers game.


The game can't escalate further with much bigger fights, using much larger ships, without having major improvements in hardware since they're aiming so high to begin with, so each pilots role is way more important to form an effective fighting force, since it isn't just about calling in the big boys with the big toys anymore.....Might take years before most are in destroyers, cruisers, battle cruisers, escort carriers and the like.


It won't be as easy to get these as it's become in EVE in the last several years, though I do remember when I was much harder in the early days where I worked my ass off for 3 months to get into a battleship, and even 0.0 space didn't have battleship spawns at all( just 50k isk cruisers).
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#1859 - 2014-10-27 21:36:49 UTC  |  Edited by: DaReaper
digitalwanderer wrote:
DaReaper wrote:
Balshem Rozenzweig wrote:
I'd like to see 2 games die: EvE online and WoW. I'd enjoy better versions of both and them dying would mean just that.

Although if WoW dies then their LFG crowd goes to the new WoW so it would kinda hurt the entire point Twisted

I guess I hope only EVE dies Blink

All in all - we want better games. I played WoW right until I got horribly bored with it. I don't see SC competition as a threat. I see it as opportunity for all of us. Till then - we shall continue to help Iceland's economy undisturbed.



I guess I don't see how a heavily instanced game, with an npc drivin economy, with optional pvp, where everyone has to be and play nice, if any sort of opertunity any eve player would want.

Unless the opportunity is to go into SC and greif the hell out of its carebears and use its game mechaics against it's self. Then sure.

Oh wait.. that's right.. I can walk around in my 100m long ship while I wait for the stupid landing animation to finish! That's the ticket!



Wrong on the pvp aspect.....It all depends on the relative security of the system you're currently in, and if it's one on the very edge of UEE space or in hostile territory like the vanduul, you can fight till the end of time.


Fights however will be limited to anywhere from 50 to 100 ships, which is understandable given the amount of artwork and detail going into every ship, so unless you have a super computer at home, don't expect 1000 ship fights as no hardware exists that can handle that with playable frame rates.


I have not read up on the slider in a while, so you mean to say, if I go to, for lack of a better term a 0.0 system in SC and have my pvp slider set to '0' (no pvp) that I will still more then likely pvp? ignoring the 'well you won't be able to tell if a ship is a player or npc' which I thought was bull crap anyway.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#1860 - 2014-10-27 21:39:59 UTC
digitalwanderer wrote:
Having said that, given that no one will start with anything better than a frigate, and there will be only 1000 of them in game which were sold in advance, from a player base of nearly 633 000 players as of right now, and the 50~100 ship limit since even high end PC's can't handle anything higher, also prevents PVP from becoming a purely numbers game.


The game can't escalate further with much bigger fights, using much larger ships, without having major improvements in hardware since they're aiming so high to begin with, so each pilots role is way more important to form an effective fighting force, since it isn't just about calling in the big boys with the big toys anymore.....Might take years before most are in destroyers, cruisers, battle cruisers, escort carriers and the like.


It won't be as easy to get these as it's become in EVE in the last several years, though I do remember when I was much harder in the early days where I worked my ass off for 3 months to get into a battleship, and even 0.0 space didn't have battleship spawns at all( just 50k isk cruisers).



Except all this is on paper. That's kinda the issue. CCP used to say 'well getting a titan will not be someone anyone can do' Then they made constalation sov and boom, everyone can easily get a titan. oops.

So i'll go with we will see how it turns out.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.