Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I believe you have the core of the issue here.

Another thought, since the market as a general whole are not going up but plex prices are soaring, maybe it is because of a shortage of plex?

Maybe the plexes themselves are an ISK faucet with people buying and selling as high as they can push them?

To those who complain about losing ships in Incursions I have no sympathy for you, suck it up take less ISK and add logi and more DPS to your fleets, I ran incursions for about 3 months when they first came out in fleets with all tech 2 fit ships and we NEVER lost a single ship. If you are seeing ships pop around you in these then it is your own fault for being greedy and not willing to share with the few extra players that would prevent these losses. Needless to say I completely reject your "we need the ISK to replace ships" argument.

Have you ever lived in nullsec before? If not, it's not the fountain of wealth that people claim. Running anomalies is only marginally better for farming isk than level four missions, and anomalies are the method through which most players, at least in my alliance, derive thier liquid isk.

Carrier ratting isn't what most people think it is.

Neither is local nullsec industry.

Or exploration. Anything that you do in nullsec incurs the risk of losing your ship, no matter how careful you think you are. Isk per hour, none of the professions generates significantly more than anything you can do in highsec, and any activity that requires you to move goods in or out of highsec has the additional headache of either waiting for a wormhole, training a jf, or risking a blockade runner.

That's why I use this character. NPC corp. Can do anything I need in highsec. I could do it in null, but I don't, because I make just as much in high.

A while back people said level 4 too hard, make nerf.. (I said no)

CCP -> nerf level 4 and make level 5 yeay

Now people say, level 4 too boring, make more interesting (I said, I told you so..)

CCP make incursions yeay

200 people make incursions (EVE haz 65.000 people)

Somehow the 200 incursion runners are bad

Meanwhile in lolsec,
lolsec collects isk for people sitting in space and collecting moon poo. But since the greed of lolsec folks knows no end, moon poo needs to cost more err day.

Meanwhile people and some software feel sad that mining pays less than being in danger of loosing something.

Mineral prices tags rise for the software and hardware miners - yeay.

But since greed knows no end and errthing- and -one needs more isk because pricetags rise and people need more isk and prices rise more and people need more isk..

All is good-y

lowse(x)c get faction ware - yeay

people and their alts and alts of alts do faction warfare without warfare and make trillions errday, market software and some hardware rise pricetag and errone needs more isk.

lolsec always need more isk, because.. reasons..

Hey,
isn't it about time you rise moon poo prices again?? Now that you are all about to get stuck somewhere you will finds some reaons to rise moon poo prices again, who cares about the rest of the population..

lolsec needs more isk! pweese halp lolsec

I'd also like to point out that what makes isk for the alliance doesn't always make isk for the alliance members. Moon mining, for instance, is a tremendous source of isk, but it's isk for the alliance. Anyhow, I don't think that reasonable people really care about people making isk in incursions, more that people who risk their assets should have better access to isk.

I started doing incursions a few months ago on my main. Yeah, the ISK is good, but there are other reasons I like doing them:

1. They are a fun change of pace.

2. I get to interact with other players I likely never would come across otherwise. On TS you get to hear stories from all over Eve.

3. It's a good way to learn the basics of being in a fleet, including using tags, fleet broadcasts, and watch lists. If you've been doing mostly solo types of things like mission running, etc. there isn't really a way to get that experience besides "going into the fire" in PVP and then you need to find people who would be willing to teach you there.

4. It's a great way to get logi experience. You can learn the ins and outs of repping your fleet mates, dealing with aggro switching in fleets that are too big for you to have everyone targeted or on your watch list, etc.

If you care to blame plex prices on the few folks (relatively) who run incursions, then go ahead. Can't stop you.
Can run some basic math to show you why it isn't as bad as all that.
The shiniest fleets (ISN, the longterm DIN, and full member Helix fleets) will net an overall average of ~140m/hr for HQs across the week, once you factor in fleet breaks and form up time. Between these 3 entities, assuming everyone had all of their toons on and farming the whole time, this is 120 pilots pulling in 140m/hr. Between these 3 communities, thats 16800m/hr and 394.8B/day if they managed to run 23.5/7. Sounds unreasonable?
Now, you have the intermediate HQ communities, and the uber shiny VG communities, with a isk/hr average of 120m/hr. These communities average about another 120 pilots. another 14400m/hr. another 338.4B/day. Again, making the assumption that these pilots are all 23.5/7

All of incursions, in total, might at the best of times put 1t isk per day into eve, after accounting for the LP. This assumes that all of the pilots in the fleet are bearing it up all day, no fleet is running light on DPS, fairly normal comp for the communities in question, etc. More realistic is 400B/day across all of incursions during high power farming. Now, still high, but not quite the firehose of isk some peoplemake it out to be.

Says the alliance who's Elite PVPing in High sec instead of more dangerous areas of space. Makes me wonder what's more toxic for the game: people who enjoy it in High sec or people who constantly pull out content from those areas of space, which are constantly craving for it and constantly losing more content and where people are constantly complaining that High sec has too much content.

This.

CLEARLY someone missed the part of CCP's presentation when incursions were #3 on the "isk faucet" chart....

You seam to divert a bit from the topic, let me bring you back on track.

Highsec is actually the space where the game mechanics are all stacked in favor of the victim and against the aggressor. Nullsec on the other hand is a leveled playing field where you can shoot everyone without automatic NPC interference. So from a pirates point of view Highsec is the more dangerous space but it also has a lot more of careless valuable targets because of that fact.

Your picture of the "more dangerous area" may be true for the PvE enthusiasts who get more difficult targets, a lot more risk to get jumped and mildly more ISK compared to the additional risk they take.

Incursions are a special snowflake in the PvE landscape of EVE. In their wake they bring a new type of player who is only concerned with grinding more ISK (even more so than the common Highsec miner) while completely ignoring the sandbox aspect of EVE while always crying for more isolation. They play EVE like a WOW clone and they constantly demand to make all of EVE more like WOW. If EVE would become a WOW clone it would surely die like all the WOW clones.

They don't only think like WOW players, they also act like them. The same immature and toxic behavior you usually encounter in this kind of repetitive grind fests that seam to trap kids an mass with their optimized reward response mechanics. One of the big selling points of EVE for me at least was that the game was almost free from this type of players. And look where we are today, I just say Beers Veldspar, need I say more?

This new toxic player can only thrive in Highsec, as this is the only place where he can ignore the sandbox most of the time and isolate themselves in their grind centered abomination of EVE gameplay. And that's why Highsec incursions have to go.