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[Phoebe] Stealth Bombers

First post First post First post
Author
MsArj
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#201 - 2014-10-16 16:05:57 UTC
hrmf, rebalance = nerf the crap out of em.

Small frigs thats suppose to be slow and sluggish. doesnt really fit into the whole covops idea....
August - Breeze
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#202 - 2014-10-16 16:07:17 UTC
I love these changes! Many more ship types will be flown now and that is a good thing for EVE! There were just to many ships that could not be flown in fleets because bombers would way to easily destroy them all. More varied fleets compositions can now legitimately be fielded. Battleship fleets are now more viable.

Small gang roams and gate camps are also heading towards getting boring as everything was getting too "cloaky" and "nullified". I am 100% in favor of a cloaked ship decloaking each other. This is a step in the right direction.

I like every one of these changes because I think they will make the game MUCH more diverse and healthy.
Caleb Seremshur
Mortis Angelus
The morgue.
#203 - 2014-10-16 16:08:16 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
handige harrie wrote:
Why not have Defender missiles as a hard counter against bombs?

like a lot of people were suggesting.

1. makes an obsolete weapon platform useful
2. gives people new roles to play in fleets
3. gives FC's more choices


defenders as a midslot e-war style role..

- anti drone warheads
- e-war effects warheads
- anti bombs warheads
etc...


J52 Phantom performed a similar role I believe, Korean war.
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#204 - 2014-10-16 16:09:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Sexy Cakes
CCP Fozzie wrote:
These changes are intended to make it easier for fleets to counter bombers (whether the bombers are isboxed or not) and to make organization of characters valuable again for bombing. Organization of pilots is made easier in a lot of ways with isboxer, but that has always been true and isn't some new phenomenon coming from these changes.


This right here makes me think you guys don't play your own game. (Not the first time this has happened by a long shot btw)

Organization of characters in bombing runs is valuable and beyond tedious as is for a number of reasons...

1. More than 7 bombs and they blow themselves up.

2. Bringing in squads of 7 from different axis's so each squad doesn't get bubbled.

3. Lining up with a celestial so that you can warp out after a bomb run.

4. Being at the correct range so that the only non-targetted weapon in the game with a flight time lands at the right place.

5. Setting up all this quickly and most times in TiDi is a nightmare.

Again... stuff like this makes it painfully obvious you guys don't do this sh!t very often yourselves or you wouldn't have even brought this feature (old bug) up.

Not today spaghetti.

Vohann Bezrodnyi
Don't Wake a sleeping bear
TIME CRIT
#205 - 2014-10-16 16:15:16 UTC

inability to bomb buble completely kills the idea of bomb squads. Decklok during fleetwarp the target and increase flight time bombs makes invulnerable enemy fleet. Very very big nerf. (((
Oxide Ammar
#206 - 2014-10-16 16:15:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Oxide Ammar
This is a sad day to Cov op pilots and I was counting the days on when you will tackle black ops... pls don't touch black ops It seems any sense regarding how cov ops fleet works nor have the courage to ban ISBoxing and you took the easier route..GJ CCP.

Lady Areola Fappington:  Solo PVP isn't dead!  You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.

Mysor McGuinness
Capital Fusion.
WE FORM BL0B
#207 - 2014-10-16 16:16:44 UTC
Great changes, happy to see the iskboxing bombers life become a bit harder, if its not for the decloaking part then the decrease of agility can still hurt them.

Only thing that could worry me a little is that bomb runs will be a lot harder to do as you can no squad warp (will decloak us on landing) so individual pilots will need to position themselves. Then again, this is doable and bombing shouldnt be too easy!

Overall, good changes, keep it coming CCP!
Jatok Reknar
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#208 - 2014-10-16 16:16:57 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

  • Cloaked ships will once again decloak each other if they come within 2km.

  • :( Not sure at all about the logic behind this.
    Tray LiSans
    Powder and Ball Alchemists Union
    #209 - 2014-10-16 16:17:05 UTC
    Making cloaked ships uncloak each other again is really just an awful idea all around. It's already frustratingly common for some knuckledragger to accidentally uncloak friendlies.

    Essentially what reverting this change will do is remove every covops fleet except multiboxers.
    Moraguth
    Ranger Corp
    Vae. Victis.
    #210 - 2014-10-16 16:19:04 UTC
    Yi Hyori wrote:
    ... a very long, but well thought out, series of posts...


    Everything you said about the current mechanics, and the pros/cons of armor/shield doctrine fleets is absolutely true. However, I have a very easy fix that follows a very old saying, "don't put all your eggs in one basket." Or, in eve terms, spread your fleets out. Have several anchors, and have those anchors be far enough away from each other that bombing runs hit a fraction of your fleet instead of everyone. This, btw, is also one of the best defenses against pipe bombing.

    Bombs are area denial weapons, or pilot-density punishments, or both depending on how you look at it.

    Go for the harder to fit and lesser damage doctrines that allow you to sit at farther ranges. Then the wings cover (overlapping fields of fire?) each other, make themselves less of a target, and make fleet combat more strategic for attackers and defenders. Have fast tackle orbiting at 30km with swarms of assisted drones instead of with the rest of the core so they can decloak or react quickly to decloaking bombers. Have cruisers orbiting (or if numbers are a problem, at likely bombing run vectors) at 15km with smartbombs ready to defend the squishy, delicious, center. There are many, MANY, counters to bomber fleets.

    Adapt or die, can i have your stuff, and all that. (that last bit not directed at you personally, but to the whiners)

    I got a Feature Added!

    Stop calling an Abaddon "abba-dawn".  It is "uh-bad-in" dictionary.com/abaddon

    Suzuka A1
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #211 - 2014-10-16 16:19:49 UTC
    Thatt Guy wrote:
    Good job nerfing every single cloaking ship in the game

    Just because you (CCP) chose to allow the use of ISBoxer doesn't mean you need to nerf everyone else's game.

    t0ny7 suggested on reddit that having an onlined bomb launcher could cause the decloak. Suggestion on Reddit.

    It's not an appropriate solution to ISBoxer, but it's better than what you have proposed.

    Never forget the battle of Z9PP-H  What actually happened: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgcUwTmHY74 Battle Report: http://www.kugutsumen.com/showthread.php?42836-They-Might-Be-Giants-The-Southwest&p=497626&viewfull=1#post497626

    Dekyk
    Imperial Academy
    Amarr Empire
    #212 - 2014-10-16 16:20:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Dekyk
    I am totally fine with all these changes except for cloaked ships de-cloaking each other. It is the worst idea I have seen in any patch since the Incarna fiasco and I can see that almost every response posted in this thread so far is in overwhelming agreement. This is a Ret**ded change and here's why:

    - Firstly, CCP admitted it was a bug back when cloaked ships de-cloaking each other was first raised with them. So putting it back in and saying it used to be a feature is just plain stupid.

    - Secondly, when you fixed the "bug" back then you did it with almost overwhelming support of the playerbase. So what the hell makes you think everyone suddenly changed their minds and is going to be happy with this da-shiang bao-tza shr duh lah doo-tze?!

    - Finally, even if you disregard the first two points, it doesn't take away from the fact that this makes running all the other ships with cloaks a giant pain in the rectum without providing them any bonuses to offset the nerf.

    Please retract this change.

    Please.

    Think of the children.

    -Dek
    Kleb Zellock
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #213 - 2014-10-16 16:21:04 UTC
    Oxide Ammar wrote:
    This is a sad day to Cov op pilots and I was counting the days on when you will tackle black ops... pls don't touch black ops It seems any sense regarding how cov ops fleet works nor have the courage to ban ISBoxing and you took the easier route..GJ CCP.


    This does touch BlOps. It's ALL cloaked ships.
    Vel'drinn
    Sanguine Vipers
    #214 - 2014-10-16 16:21:23 UTC
    August - Breeze wrote:
    I love these changes! Many more ship types will be flown now and that is a good thing for EVE! There were just to many ships that could not be flown in fleets because bombers would way to easily destroy them all. More varied fleets compositions can now legitimately be fielded. Battleship fleets are now more viable.

    Small gang roams and gate camps are also heading towards getting boring as everything was getting too "cloaky" and "nullified". I am 100% in favor of a cloaked ship decloaking each other. This is a step in the right direction.

    I like every one of these changes because I think they will make the game MUCH more diverse and healthy.


    One option available is not packing hundreds of ships at a fixed point. You know, maybe spread out a little and fight multiple fronts.

    This change will make bombers overly obtuse to use and require a lot of experience to fly effectively.

    The time to setup warpins without decloaking everybody is going to be a nightmare even for a small gang.

    With the added signature radius and proximity decloak there are going to be a lot of dead bombers no matter how good the warp in.

    I'll echo the best comments I've seen so far by highlighting the need to see cloaked fleet members if this goes through. It won't matter how good your pilots are if they risk tripping over each other in space. All it takes is one error to cause a decloak chain reaction then you kiss your fleet goodbye. That's not skill, its random blind frustration.
    Aram Kachaturian
    Aram Pleasure Hub Holding
    #215 - 2014-10-16 16:24:09 UTC
    Could you please calm down people ?

    CCP Fozzie has the hardcore almost impossible task to please everyone each time his team changes a game mechanic.

    Back in the days, effective bomber fleets were rare and elite. When I was part of True Reign, we used to bomb Red Alliance & cie blobs. Setting up our bookmarks and warping hours before the fights, coordinating our moves to avoid decloaking each others. Despite the efforts, a successful bomb run meant something, it meant eliteness. Those were the days.

    Nowadays, its way to easy and accessible. And please dont throw me the dictors bubbles shield around fleets or the lag, we had to manage it too in the past.

    Godspeed CCP

    Edit: More clothes on the market plz

    Servant of the Secret League, Wielder of the Monocle Clubhouse Flame.

    Nolak Ataru
    Singularity Expedition Services
    Singularity Syndicate
    #216 - 2014-10-16 16:24:32 UTC
    Nys Cron wrote:
    Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
    with the changes to bomb speed a few smart bombs are your counter


    So you either sacrifice two highslots on the Carrier (why are you even bringing one then?) or you have to position ships around it in all directions (you don't know where the bombs will come from). This would require a lot of ships and is not really feasible, especially in wspace.


    What's that? You will have to use non-capitals to SUPPORT your caps? Inconceivable!
    Black Canary Jnr
    Higher Than Everest
    #217 - 2014-10-16 16:24:35 UTC
    Thank you for showing an appreciation for physics and not allowing 50 bombers to occupy the same space, while cloaked, whilst not being smushed into a ball of scrap.

    Realism 1, Bomber fanboys 0
    Metal Icarus
    Star Frontiers
    Brotherhood of Spacers
    #218 - 2014-10-16 16:25:05 UTC
    "cloaked ships will now de-cloak at 2k again...."

    :(

    Restoring a bug doesn't seem like a great way to nerf ISboxing bomber fleets

    That nerfs ALL cloaked ships working together not just bombers.

    This means that all cloaked ships in warp together will likely de-cloak the whole fleet.

    This is an inconvenience that doesn't need to exist and bringing it back right now, just doesn't make much sense.
    Moraguth
    Ranger Corp
    Vae. Victis.
    #219 - 2014-10-16 16:27:56 UTC
    elitatwo wrote:
    Funny observations of the last weeks:

    We say Ishtar op!

    CCP comes:
    Nerf missiles!

    We say bombs too strong!

    CCP comes:
    Nerf cloaks!

    Got me thinking, if we can determine the right pattern here we could ask for the right nerf or buff to occure. I am usually very observant and good at this but this pattern still eludes me..


    I have no idea what your agenda or desired nerf would be, but for the sake of SCIENCE, i think you should try organizing a huge effort to scream "NERF MINING DRONES!" just to see what would happen. We need more data points to discover the pattern!

    I got a Feature Added!

    Stop calling an Abaddon "abba-dawn".  It is "uh-bad-in" dictionary.com/abaddon

    Suzuka A1
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #220 - 2014-10-16 16:29:58 UTC
    I was really looking forward to seeing more triage carriers used with 20-50 man gangs, but with ONE bomber being able to nuke 15k cap it's no longer a viable tactic.

    [Q] Would you consider adding void bomb resists to cap batteries and maybe adding capital size cap batteries?

    Never forget the battle of Z9PP-H  What actually happened: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgcUwTmHY74 Battle Report: http://www.kugutsumen.com/showthread.php?42836-They-Might-Be-Giants-The-Southwest&p=497626&viewfull=1#post497626